Buying our first house - now he says I owe him a lot of money

[Tamara9]

Hi mums,

First off I realise all relationships are different and this isn't necessarily wrong or right but talking definitely gives some new perspectives!

My partner and I are unmarried, together 10+ years, no kids yet, but buying our first home together. He has an awful lot of money saved (has always lived with parents) and is putting down ALL of the deposit, I have almost nothing saved (stuck renting since I was 18). We're both on the mortgage as joint owners. However he's saying that I owe him half of the money he's putting down, we're talking like more than £30k each, he's saying he would be annoyed if he didn't get that money back, and then he expects it back in 4/5 years.

Now this isn't completely out of the blue and I did expect that this would be part of our agreement to live together and accepted it. But I expected us to buy somewhere a lot cheaper, he's just quite high maintenance.

However now that it's happening...

It's taken ALOT of the fairytale 'love' away from our relationship on my part, that's always been there previously. I wouldn't be doing this if it was reversed. Him saying he'd be 'annoyed' has put a lot of pressure on for me, especially as I kinda expected within 4/5 years we'd be having kids and if that's the case how am I going to pay him.

And my questions are:

Is this what adult relationships are like or is he just being immature/naive?
Am I wrong for thinking it's a little unreasonable and unrealistic?
And imo if this wasn't the condition for moving in together we wouldn't be... so should that be ringing some alarm bells?

I'm no longer in contact with my mum. So I was hoping the mums of Mumsnet can give me some motherly advice!

Thanks x

How did the chat go?

He's also spoken about how we could sell after renovation when he would get his deposit back

So he wants you to pay and wants to take it again after you sell.

So you pay £30k off the mortgage but then he wants the first £30k when you sell and he will split the proceeds 50/50

There is something about your relationship that suggests this isn’t one based on romantic love.

It sounds more like someone getting what they want under the guise of “helping” someone out.

Run.

Honestly @Tamara9, I wouldn't be buying any house or home at this particular moment. Not specifically about his comments and his "first love is money" comment, but in general, with all of the government loans that have been taken out to pay for X, Y and Z over the past few weeks, the country (and many others) are going into serious amounts of debt and we could be staring at the face of another Recession and goodness knows how long it will take to get out of that if it happens. Now is not the time to buy.

1. Don't buy with this man at the moment.
2. Get your own INDEPENDENT financial advice. I've put that word in capital letters as you're entitled to get financial advice by yourself in relation to your finances and how they would benefit or not from the proposal that is currently on the table.
3. In one of your posts you mentioned that he likes to go into business with his brother. My advice, let him. Let him buy this home/house with his brother and not you. You on the other hand should sit tight and not move in with him or let him move in to your current abode. He is not the man for you. Honestly.
4. Sit him down. Tell him that you're not willing to be second to a big pile of money. You must be first. That he didn't 'get' that and already know that, speaks more about him than you. You know that you'll be sad for a while not being in each others lives but that this is the best course of action and you are no longer going to be buying a home with him. Not now. Not ever. It is not in the cards for this to happen. So you're making a break of it.
5. Leave him.

That's my advice. None of it terribly financially orientated but all meant with the best of intentions for you.

Ok think of it this way.
You have 60k in savings
You buy a £120k house.
So you put in 3/4 of the money including your share of the mortgage.
Would you want some protection.
If he paid you the 30k over 5 years you would both own 50% .

Wheeewwwwwweeee, he's just got this all planned out down to the last tee, hasn't he?

Which is one of the biggest red flags as well.

He hasn't consulted you about the possibilities of a life together, he's just gone away and carefully plotted out how he can protect himself/his money at all costs, then presented it to you as The Official Plan.

I can clearly see how you are scrabbling round to defend him (because the alternative is not very nice, I understand that), but honestly, this guy is a wrongun'.

(Just to add, I agree with PP that protecting his deposit is fine. He's just gone about it in a sneaky and underhanded way that makes it clear that his only interest is himself)

My partner & I had unequal amounts as deposit/renovation funds when we bought a house together 7y ago. The process of agreeing the split was very difficult and almost derailed us. Our solution was 3 fold: 1) the significant deposit was noted in the deed and there was an allowance for him to get that back if we split up
2) we did a deed - which everyone should do stating if you are tenants in common or joint tenants. We have both been married previously and there are (adult) children to consider from an inheritance perspective as well as a baby on the way now
3) we each took out a life insurance policy and made the other the beneficiary, this was more than the amount if half the mortgage and will allow the surviving person to pay off any other claim (like give that money to the kids instead of having to sell the house)

As we now have a baby on the way, we reviewed the deed and decided it still works for us and offers the right “protection” for both parties should something happen. We’re more likely to die than split up but you NEVER know what’s around the corner!

It was a difficult conversation but at the end of the day the best advice is to separate romance and money - no one has the obligation to fund someone else, married or not. You are an independent woman (been in your Ian feet since 18!!!) keeping things very clear between parties can enable more generosity not less, as it’s a choice xxx good luck OP

And to s as lol of you lot saying run not walk - really? What if it was your son rather than daughter asking the question? Feminism equality, not being so unequal that you expect a man to pay your share or threaten to leave!!! Disappointed at those replies in 2020!

That is a large amount of money for him to not be protecting. Buy the property as tenants in common and then get a deed of trust to say he gets the deposit back if you sell. Then pay 50% of the remaining mortgage and you will get back what you put in. I don't see why he should give you 50% of the deposit if it is his money. I am married and protected my deposit as it was my inheritance in case DH and I split.

Do not have children unless married. If you have children and split he would have to provide for them and the settlement if you split would take that into account, being married offers you more protection financially.

i'm not sure I understand your reasoning. You didn't want to give up your stability to risk trialing living together short term, but you are willing to give it up to buy together, without even knowing if you will get on living together. That just does not make any sense. I wold stop the purchase, and try living together in a rented place while you see if you can live together successfully. If that didn't work you have lost nothing, and could easily go back to renting on your own. If you buy a house together, then find you can't live together, that is a hell of a mess to sort out. He doesn't necessarily sound like a bad person, but it does sound like you need to think it through a lot more before committing to buying a house together.

He doesn’t sound the right man for you, sorry.

What if it was your son rather than daughter asking the question? Feminism equality, not being so unequal that you expect a man to pay your share or threaten to leave!!! Disappointed at those replies in 2020!

I'm disappointed you think that is what feminism is.

Update:

We've been together 10+ years, however I chose to go back to studying and spent 3 of them years in uni, the following 3 years clearing immediate debt from uni, and also finding job stability. We've been talking about moving in together for 3+ years however I lost my job 2 years ago and had no income for a few months. Meanwhile he had a house project with his brother and couldn't move in with me as he was stretched for that mortgage already. We started looking this time last year and have only just found a place after 9 rejected offers on houses of various values.

It's not that I haven't been saving. I've just been renting and using spare cash to invest in myself. In the same way he's been investing in his goals of property development.

This house we looked around together and it's right by a really good primary school where he made a comment about posting our kids through the fence to go to school... so I think that's him considering long term. But it needs renovating so it's also a investment opportunity for him. But we did offers on houses that weren't investments.

So as you guys have said above I think it's highly likely he's worked out a way to make this a good investment, potentially through me aswell as the house... which I hear you all I know now is wrong.
But he's also regularly talking about making this a home for us to start a life together, he's drawn up rough plans and included things that he knows I'd love in the house and shows me his pinterest boards of gardens he thinks I'll like, when it's not really his thing. So that's another side of him.

It's worth mentioning that he has always been VERY indecisive and a big worrier/over thinker. We have both been very selfish in living our lives how we wanted, it's only now I'm over that and ready to be a partnership.

Red flag. Cut your losses and walk away.

There's nothing at all wrong with him trying to protect himself, and if you'd been a woman wanting to do this the replies would, as ever, have been completely different ... but this isn't the way to do it when he could just as easily ringfence his deposit by being tenants in common

Other than that principle, I agree with PPs that there are many red flags here, mainly about his overall attitude, but also because you clearly can't afford this. "Fairytale love" is all very well, but the financial practicalities matter, though it seems they matter to him perhaps a bit too much at the expense of a lot else

Personally I'd be thinking again about the whole thing, him included

Agree with everyone saying don't do this.

Don't buy with him. You wanted somewhere cheaper but are being bullied into paying him back for something of his choice which you can't afford.

Don't have children with someone who doesn't see all money as family money by the point you mutually agree to try to bring a joint child into the world. That degree of transactional thinking is not compatible with being a family. He'll expect you to pay half of everything during maternity leave despite it being your career that takes the hit because of the biology of pregnancy and childbirth and breastfeeding. He'll believe it's "not his fault" and therefore your fault.

Men who've always lived with their parents are generally a bad bet anyway as they tend to be naive and entitled.

However his first love is money and I really don't want to take his money

You also don't want to tie yourself and plan a future with this person.

Your list is mostly about what he wants. You want children and (as I infer) the marriage to afford them and you with some protection. His focus is money and property development.

I'd also say anyone planning amateur property development at the moment is taking quite a risk. The boom days of buy a place, do it up, make a lot of money, have really gone unless you can do it on full scale commercial level (and from what you say, he is not on that level)

Personally if my OH hadn't put 50% forward he wouldn't have been on the mortgage. Look at this from his side. He's putting you on the mortgage when you're bringing nothing to the home, you've agreed to pay previously and now moving the goal post? If you're an equal partnership you need to bring equally to the home... be it a % if wage or equal amounts depending on your wages. He's just trying to protect himself which is sensible.

Wot @QueenoftheIceAge said

Top post, read it carefully and read it again

From your update

where he made a comment about posting our kids through the fence to go to school... so I think that's him considering long term.

Really, if you do only one thing, stop taking throw away comments like this as evidence of his future intentions for your joint life.

Sit him down , talk about what you each want and plan, how you see it working. Email the key points so you are each clear, no misunderstandings.

But really, read wot QueenoftheIceAge said

Re money being his first love. Don't built a life with someone unless you are each others number one. Congratulations on your studies and professional development.

Maybe now would be a good time do some 'work' to find out why money being his number one isn't an enormous red flag for you. All the very best.

We were in a very similar circumstances- I have been renting for eve, my partner actually previously lived with his brother in a flat his parents bought for them and never charged any rent. So he had loads saved vs me very little. His parents also helped us with part of the downpayment after the flat was sold (his brother got half and partner got half) so he dfinitely put in a lot more in the house than me.

On the paperwork, we are both 50% owners each. He never mentioned putting in more at all or reimbursing him!

To be honest I think you are both creating a bit of mess here in your romantic relationship and financial connection.

Most people can be both romantic and financially sensible. And you need to be. Relationships break down and when the do it’s not the time to try to sort out money and the cost of sacrifice.

You have decided to buy a home together and that is a big financial commitment for both of you. One that you need to understand and be comfortable with as an individual and as a couple. Both of you.

Let’s be frank here, to buy a home you need a deposit and income to secure a mortgage. You don’t have a deposit. This issue needs to be addressed.

By the sounds of it, whilst he is willing to use all his capital to secure the house, he wants to release it in the future for other business projects. This issue also needs to be addressed.

As the fact that you both need to agree a budget.

But really you shouldn’t be buying now, if one of you sees this as an investment. Your partner does. The economy is incredibly uncertain. House prices may tumble and your jobs or income may not be secure.

As to the issue of marriage and children. You are not at that stage. Consider the financial implications of either when you get there.

But right now you an adult without dependents. If you want to buy a home you need a deposit and an income to cover the mortgage. Even if you are in a relationship you cannot expect someone to just give you this without any obligation.

If he wants to protect himself then he needs to pay for a deed of trust to be drawn up. My partner and I did the exact same thing - costs just came out of our collective house pot. Protecting yourself is not insisting your partner owes you 15k?

I don't think it is fundamentally unreasonable for someone who is putting down thousands of pounds (£60k?) where the other person is putting £0 to seek to protect themselves, particularly if you are unmarried and there are no children (hence why marriage a very good idea if planning to have children).

It sounds like he has gone about things wrong and upset you, but that you would be open to some sort of arrangement that clarifies things. Although he's getting slated here, he also appears to be ambitious and have plans to invest the money - these are usually considered positive attributes on MN so not sure why everyone's being so hard on him. How is it that you (if you're the higher earner) have absolutely nothing to contribute? Surely you must have been able to save a little bit knowing that the plan was to buy a house? Is it the case that you are not very responsible financially and he is trying to encourage you to adopt a more long term approach so that you can be equal partners in that respect? Now that you are not renting, but instead contributing to a mortgage, perhaps there is a structure whereby you pay more in to reflect your higher income and this evens things up over time?

If the situation were reversed, everyone on here would be telling you to protect your money. The only thing I'd say to him is that when children come into the equation, all bets are off as to any agreement you make now - it's one pot.

But he's also regularly talking about making this a home for us to start a life together, he's drawn up rough plans and included things that he knows I'd love in the house and shows me his pinterest

Run for the hills. It all seems so manipulative
There doesn’t seem to be any discussion where you have input in anything.

He has a Pinterest board, like saying to you

This is what you could have.

Have you ever discussed paint colour or furnishings.

What would happen if you wanted something he didn’t like.

I get the impression that you might be paying the mortgage, have your name on the deeds and be paying £500 per month to your partner in order to own the house 50/50 but this house will never truly be yours.
This house to him and his brother is just another property deal with a 3rd party who can up the mortgage they can get and pay for the privilege

As others have already said there is nothing wrong with him protecting his deposit but he isn’t wanting to do that because it would leave you with money and I think he wants to have every penny of your money accounted for

Can I ask who is paying for the renovations

I agree with QueenoftheIceAge did he discuss moving in together before he realised he needed you on the mortgage to buy a renovation project?

Why has he never lived with you to make sure you can live together? Dh and I house sat for my sister for 2 weeks and used that as a trial run for cooking meals together, shopping for food, splitting chores or doing chores together.

If you have been together 10 years, how old are you now? Why are you not engaged?

Ringfence his deposit, that way he gets it back when you sell the property. Not sure why he wants you to "pay him back".