Buying our first house - now he says I owe him a lot of money

[Tamara9]

Hi mums,

First off I realise all relationships are different and this isn't necessarily wrong or right but talking definitely gives some new perspectives!

My partner and I are unmarried, together 10+ years, no kids yet, but buying our first home together. He has an awful lot of money saved (has always lived with parents) and is putting down ALL of the deposit, I have almost nothing saved (stuck renting since I was 18). We're both on the mortgage as joint owners. However he's saying that I owe him half of the money he's putting down, we're talking like more than £30k each, he's saying he would be annoyed if he didn't get that money back, and then he expects it back in 4/5 years.

Now this isn't completely out of the blue and I did expect that this would be part of our agreement to live together and accepted it. But I expected us to buy somewhere a lot cheaper, he's just quite high maintenance.

However now that it's happening...

It's taken ALOT of the fairytale 'love' away from our relationship on my part, that's always been there previously. I wouldn't be doing this if it was reversed. Him saying he'd be 'annoyed' has put a lot of pressure on for me, especially as I kinda expected within 4/5 years we'd be having kids and if that's the case how am I going to pay him.

And my questions are:

Is this what adult relationships are like or is he just being immature/naive?
Am I wrong for thinking it's a little unreasonable and unrealistic?
And imo if this wasn't the condition for moving in together we wouldn't be... so should that be ringing some alarm bells?

I'm no longer in contact with my mum. So I was hoping the mums of Mumsnet can give me some motherly advice!

Thanks x

@Tamara9

So why not just let him buy the house and keep everything in his name?

If him owning the house outright doesn’t sound like a great deal for you, and for you then to have an equal claim, what you’re actually asking is for him to give you 30k. Ask yourself, why should he just give you 30k?

Ask yourself if it weren't for his choices would you take out a 30k loan over 3-4 years to run in parallel with a bigger mortgage than you want on a bigger house than you want with someone who preferred living with his mum over living with you until he needed your salary to fund his dreams.

So why not just let him buy the house and keep everything in his name

Because he can't afford it by himself, is what OP seems to be saying. he needs her income to get a big enough mortgage, for a more £££ hosue than she even wants.

what you’re actually asking is for him to give you 30k
Where has she said that? The near universal advice is "sure, get it legally squared off with a deed" (if she stays with him because he sounds like a mercenary git)

But it's just not sitting right with me
Me neither!

Here's my breakdown.....

We started looking this time last year and have only just found a place after 9 rejected offers on houses of various values
You said he was high maintenance...so basically he's had the final say on the house cos it's his money?

He said, would I prefer to pay more on the mortgage to clear it that way?
He's familiar with mortgages so knew that he could ringfence his deposit....but instead wants YOU to start with a £15k debt (incl interest). He basically wants to make this project development plan cheaper for himself by making you take on half the cost.
You are to repay this debt to him within 5 years - including interest.
THEN he's suggesting that you reduce your spare income further by repaying him a higher amount back each month?
Meanwhile you still have to pay 50/50 on bills etc even though it sounds like his income is a lot more than yours?
What exactly are you going to have left over to enjoy life/plan a wedding/save for kids etc?

He's also spoken about how we could sell after renovation when he would get his deposit back, id get mine (I have £5k)
So despite his talk about "posting the kids through the fence" to school....he's not really looking at this as an investment in a longterm family home....
It IS an investment though - to add to his property portfolio....
Do YOU want to spend 5 years living in a building site/overseeing renovations and paying through the nose for them....just to get your 5k back?
Cos no matter what he says about 'letting' you have half the deposit, i highly doubt it.....all the money will be sunk into his next project for renovation under the guise of your next 'family' home.

I think he's rushing you and actually not respecting your feelings at all.
It's all on his terms....so if you want him you do as he wants.
His EXCUSE for not doing a trial run living together renting is "don't want to pay someone else's mortgage"?!!!!!
So he gets you to give up your flat to pay HIS?!!!!

He isn't arsed about your security needs or even figuring out whether you're compatible living together.
I think he just sees a good way of making money and building his property portfolio in his own name but with a 'silent' partner helping finance it all.

You said it - his first love is money.
He's spinning you a fancy line about kids and a family home and in the same breath telling you about his ideas for the next project.
Your finances are nowhere near equal at the moment, he's not going to 'give' you a large chunk of his cash and by having kids you'd be further financially vulnerable.
He hasn't compromised on anything and yet you're being led to go along with all his plans and doing it all his way.

Personally, i'd put a halt to buying a place for now.
Suggest he moves in with you - or gets a place of his own if it bothers him that much.
You have every right to want to trial a live-in without giving up your security.....at least you wouldn't end up in thousands of pounds of debt if it went tits up!

Tamara you have no money for a deposit.
You can either rent for 5 years at say £1,000 a month which would be £60,000 or you could pay £30,000 in mortgage, have £30,000 savings and maybe rather a lot of profit.
Remember only you know if you can trust this man, we don't know him, you do.

In your update OP you explained that he has been involved in property development previously. So he is not a mortgage virgin. I am therefore very surprised that he didn't raise this as an issue, ie protecting his deposit, long before you got to this stage. It seems to me that he sees you repaying the deposit quickly rather than the deposit being ring fenced, as a way for him to extend his property empire by using it as a deposit on another property later down the line . Which begs the question , where would you stand in relation to a second property bought with a deposit you have saved, obviously his investment in the first property would be secure, as would yours , but the second ? Cake and eat it comes to mind.

I'd not buy with him OP - he's not lived on his own, and worse, lives with two sexist men. My exh would tell you he was 'shafted' by me in the divorce settlement, when in fact it was perfectly fair, but far more than he thought I should get.

He needs to 'launch' as a proper adult and live alone for a while before he is marriage material. I don't think, however, that he has any intention of getting married.

If you want to proceed tell him to get a deed of trust drawn up and under no circumstances have children unless you're married. I'd put a time limit on that too, as I think he'll stall, and you'll cave as you'll be worried about your fertility declining.

Does he actually realise how much it costs to live as an adult with bills, food, boilers playing up etc. How has he worked out that can afford to pay 100's a month more to "pay him back" plus food, bills, saving for a rainy day, running a car etc? When previously you haven't had more cash for deposits etc. I'm confused about why you haven't tried living together before? You have been together a long time

I think him ring fencing his large deposit is reasonable but via legal means is the way to go?

My fiancé and l are planning to buy a house. We are both contributing to the deposit but l have an extra £14k more than him and this is reflected in the deed of trust

OP says that her rent will half.
So will her household bills.
That the boyfriend wants to go into property with his brother and his 60k was for this.
He wants either for OP to save the money living together brings her till she has 27.5k to equalise her share of the deposit, since she earns more why is this so wrong.
If this was friends investing together the one who paid more is entitled to find an agreeable way to move forward.

I'd run like hell personally. To quote Bryan Adams,

When you love someone
You'll sacrifice
Give it everything you got
And you won't think twice
You'd risk it all
No matter what may come
When you love someone

Maybe that's a romantic notion, but it seems from what I've read above, this man loves money, not you.

Mummy202, to me the difference is that if this was friends living together there would have been a straight discussion that went....I have 60k and want to develop a house, you have a good income and are paying rent. Do you want to buy a house together...I'll put in the deposit, you gather your saved cash and give it back to me at this rate.

Both could then make an informed choice. Here the op is having her contributions/ views minimised and swept under the rug and is being led to believe that it was a development of their romantic relationship.

Then at the last minute she's been presented as if it's a done deal, with a hidden threat if the removal of affection if she doesn't agree. That's what makes it red flaggy IMHO.

Sorry mummy2017 not 202

He sounds awful. Me and my (now) DH bought our first place early 2010s and it was all his deposit. We jus had an agreement that he owned X% and me X% and then if we broke up while unmarried we'd sell the house and get our shares. Now we are married and on our second property we didn't continue with that agreement.

He can protect the deposit by putting a charge on the property that he gets his bit back but only if it’s sold. This seems like the safest option and you won’t be indebted to him.

When you love someone
You'll sacrifice
Give it everything you got
And you won't think twice
You'd risk it all
No matter what may come
When you love someone

That's a very foolish way to approach real life.

OP, I can see his attitude towards money leading to issues in the future, but you've been with him for 10 years, so it doesn't seem to be a problem for you.

Living together is very different though. Finances are a large cause of marital and relationship breakdowns.

The fact you've been together for over 10 years and only just about to move in together speaks volumes...

All this bloke wants is to protect his investment, and equalize it out at some point.
It seems grabby in today's society to not be willing to do this.
We share the cost of meals out.
We split the household bills.
All this is just about how he will be repaid the extra he put in.
The OP stops paying rent and gets to start making money.
After all she earns more but this man says bills split 50/50.
I don't think he is on the take.

I'm going to raise something based on my own unhappy experience as an eager FTB.

Google "negative equity" and 1989/1990

What will you do if the value of the house drops by 1/3 or more (very likely given the current massive economic hit)
And/or
interest rates double (again quite possible as they're currently very low, maybe not now but in 3/4 years' time..?)
And/or
One/both of you is not earning (redundancy, illhealth, disabled child)
and/or
You need or want to sell
(neighbours from hell, only job offers elsewhere, you split up)

If you were my daughter, I'd say...
House prices are going to tank; jobs will be lost; pull out of the current deal and wait. Not only will it save you far more than that deposit, but better still it will protect you from being trapped.

It happened to me and I was stuck there for.FIVE.years, somewhere that (we found out) had awful problems we couldn't solve. Five years of misery. We had to take in lodgers just to be able to clear the mortgage - the house sold for 2/3 what we'd paid so no profit and we had to start again from scratch.

A lot of PP have spoken about ringfencing deposits and so on which is all true but besides the point which is DO NOT BUY NOW, WAIT A YEAR.

That ^

DO NOT BUY THIS HOUSE. He’s using you. This is a really bad time to be investing in your first property. We were buying but as soon as this all kicked off we’ve pulled out and shut up shop. No big outgoings right now. The housing market is going to crash. You’ll be stuck with an expensive property, not married and it will be worth a lot less than you paid for it. Tell him today you want to halt the process until Dec 2021 when the pandemic is over. If he truly loves you then he will understand. If he kicks off then you’ve got your answer. Have you seen an independent solicitor by yourself about all of this? You need to stop and do that before you sign anything

He's being a knob, how the hell does he expect you to save that and pay your half of the mortgage/bills and have any quality of life.

Instead of 'paying him back' why don't you just get a deed of trust which ringfences his investment?

You also need to face a serious conversation about how you will handle finances up front ie what if one of you starts to out earn the other (we pay bills/mortgage proportionally so the higher earner pats the most) - it's not realistic to always be 50/50

OMG LittleFluffy, how embarrassing that we all missed this obvious point - yes. Economists are saying that this downturn is going to be far WORSE than 2008-2009. Property values will tank and take god knows how long to recover. NOT a good time to buy at all - add that to the mix OP and get out now.

No-one should be proceeding with house purchases at this time, it’s madness.

When my bf bought his first property in 1987, I paid part of his deposit (with a credit card loan!). We hadn’t agreed to marry and had no legal agreement. We married the following year and put the house in joint names. It was all done on the basis that we loved each other and trusted each other. If either of us had come up with the suggestion in the OP’s case, that would have been it. (We divorced in the end, but neither shafted the other)

Tbh humour him move in and of he asked for it bk say cant afford it will need to sell. I'd be upset if all my savings were going if I had 60k. Noone likes seeing an empty bank

Deal breaker

Do not have kids with this man unless you have the protection of marriage. I'd still be weary even if you were married.