Parents want to go away for Christmas, and they want all the family with them, which includes my ex!

[Pinkchampagne]

They want to go abroad because staying at home will be too upsetting without Nan, which I can totally understand as Christmas Eve has always been Nan's day, for as long as I can remember, and we will all be feeling very sad without her this year.
They feel that it would be more bearable if we all go away for Christmas, and they have talked to my ex husband about possibly going to Florida. (he told me about this when he phoned to speak to boys on Mon night)
They haven't said anything to me yet, but they apparantly want all the family there, and dad is going to call one of his family meetings about this!

I feel it would be good to get away this year, and Christmas is a time where you should be with your family, so I should make the effort, but I just don't know if I could grit my teeth and get through it.

I wouldn't want the boys away from their dad at Christmas time either, and he would obviously want to see them, so can kind of understand him being included in a way, but it would feel wrong to go away with him & could give him & my family false hope.

What do I do about this one?

yes a type of christmas present thing -

get in first adn say what you are doing

Well, according to ex H, there is to be some family meeting!

Seems something has been said to DS2 because as I was putting him to bed tonight, he said "When are we going to America Disney?"
He said that daddy told him. They stayed there last night.
I just said "I don't know that we will be going there"

This is all just awful.

How cruel of youe exH to mention it to DSs before any firm plans have been made. I think he has done this to make you the baddie when you say we wont be going.
I think it would be really confusing for the boys if you did go and upsetting for them if you dont go but the thought of santa coming should be a consolation to them.

Oh PC - I am so sorry.

How extremely awful of them to have discussed it with ex first, and just as bad for him to have discussed it with your DS. that is truly truly out of order.

I was going to ask how ex seemed to view this plan - but i guess his actions give the answer to that.

I was also going to suggest NOT waiting for your parents to broach the subject - especially round the table at a huge family meeting - but to be pro-active and raise it with them - head them off with an alternative plan.

Like 'i know this chirstamas will be v hard for us all - you Mum because of nan and me because of being in my house on my own for the first time. So i thought it would be really nice if we ....went our for a meal of Xmas eve / all came to my house / your house / and then i can take the boys to ex's mother's house on Boxing day...' or whatever plan you come up with. because apart from anyhting else - what about ex's mother?? Poor woman - your Mum dragging ex around like her pet puppy / guard dog!

Does your sister see how outrageous it was for your parents to raise it with ex h before spaking to you? Could you discuss it woith ex and tell him yu think it is a bad idea and you want nothing to do with it? Buut he will run to your mother.

God. And it would be easy to say 'just cut loose' but the reality is that you would be utterly bereft if your entire family including your sister go to Florida leaving you alone. I can see that.

What a mess.

I would take the bull by the horns before the family meeting though - you don't want to be in that particular arena as a lone voice.

They are MAD. there is no other word for it.

Yes it would probably be a better idea for me to try to broach the subject of Christmas first, and make other suggestions.

Told a few friends & they all think it is shocking, but it is really getting to me a lot.

Haven't had a chance to talk to my sister alone yet, but am going out with her tomorrow night, so will discuss it then.
She seems quite keen on the thought of getting away, from what I could make out though. She thinks that is what we will all need.

It doesn't suprise me that ex H has been informed of these plans before me.

I am going mad with all this - I wish I was tougher.

I honestly don't know how you can deal with this. Would it work, do you think, to write it all down in a letter to yyour Mum? Telling her Xmas will be so hard, you wnat her to be ok in the first x mas without nan, that it is important that both you and ex see the boys, but you also have to deal with your first Xmas alone, and whereas going aay might help her it would be unendurable for you to either have ex there, or to take the boys from him? And ask her, pleased, to think of you, her dd, and to think of your needs as you are being sensitive to her loss of nan?

I don't know.

If you refused point blnk to go, would ex trot along with them, thereby absnting himself from seeing the boys at Xmas?

In some ways, in the ideal world, (somewhere over the Rainbow) it would be wonderful if it were possible for you and ex to attend family events together for the boys - but this is too soon and too twisted - given your parents relationship with ex - and also too intensive and long - a hol away from home. If it was a meal or a day that would be different.

Come to think of it, my family asked my ex to be the photographer at my sisters wedding without consulting me. My BIL-to-be intervened and said he wouldn't agree to it unless I was asked...at which point my family (mum) suddenly realised what she had done and did consult me. Having been consulted i felt i had no option but to graciously say 'yes of course it's ok' - but it was nothing like the circumstances you face!

I will try to talk to her. I feel bad for the rest of the family, but I can't do this, it's not right.

I remember how unbearable the flight was when we last flew to the states, when DS2 was a baby.
Ex H doesn't fly well, and was extra awful for the whole journey. I can't handle all that now we're not together, apart from the fact it is all just wrong.

I don't know whether he would go with them if I didn't. I don't know if the family would go away if I totally refused, which I know would spoil things for everyone else & be a bit selfish of me.

I would hope they wouldn't all go away anyway & leave me alone at Christmas time. I would hate that.

What a mess

PC - it wouldn't be selfish of you! That's exactly what your family is counting on - putting pressure on you so you will feel obliged to go!

You are in an intolerable situation, but it sounds like this is just part of an ongoing issue that you have with your parents. (I've followed your story even if I haven't posted!)

And it seems to me that you have to make a stand about this - both in terms of what your ex-h seems to want from you and what your family wants.

It will be a difficult Christmas for you without your nan, but it doesn't mean that it has to be a horrible one. And now is probably the best time of all to start to create your new family rituals for you and your dc.

Make it very clear to your parents that you would love to go but only without your ex-h. Just be calm and clear about it and say it with conviction. "Ex-h and are are separated so I have no wish to be on holiday with him. If you would prefer to have him with you rather than me and dcs, then I will respect that and wish you a lovely time"

And make sure that you have made your own plans for Christmas so that you will have a good time.

Good luck - but don't let them bully you again!

MANIPULATION

take a stand against it otherwise they'll never stop! you're not selfish, you just have to make them respect your wishes.

Oh I really feel for you, but you do need to stand up to them PC. They are not thinking of you at all. I agree with saying you have no desire to go on holiday with your x. I think you may need to be really blunt and strong on a couple of occassions until they realise they cannot bully you like this. I am so for you.

Please do not let yourself be railroaded into going. Can your sister maybe fight your corner with you re ex going being innapropriate. Surely she can see the awful position you have been put in. What does she make of your parents starnge realtionship with your ex?

I do think you need to write it down so that they can't misinterpret you.

Make clear that you fully understand how difficult it will be for your mum this year without her mum, so you think the holiday is a brilliant idea, you want them to go and relax and have the most wonderful time.

However of course it would be too painful and difficult if it involved your ex and also would be cruel and damaging to your children who would be confused and given the wrong messages by seeing their parents on holiday together when the split is so recent.

I think that's all you can do; it clearly states your position, and your position is TOTALLY reasonable. If they go against it they are going against their own daughter's best interests.

I know you say it would be difficult if they did go away and leave you at home but I think you'd have to accept that's a possibility. And you'd just have to set your mind to creating a magical christmas at home; there are always ideas on here nearer the time, create some new traditions and have some fun with it. And be honest with the boys, say that it would be too confusing and upsetting for everyone if mum and dad went on holiday together when you're all getting used to life again. Of course it would be damn hard for them to accept that but PC that's not you creating the situation, that would be your family.

If I were you depending on the result of this christmas, I would seriously have to think about distancing from the family big time. It's toxic stuff. If this is an example of what they do all the time, they WILL be damaging your children and screwing them up, and that you wouldn't allow I know.

I agree that you have to give them two options.

One is to go with ex-H and without you and the boys and the other is that you and the boys go but without ex-H. I like the idea of saying "I would love to go with you but not with X. We are recently divorced and there were very good reasons for that divorce. It would be confusing and unsettling for the boys to see us together on holiday. However, if you prefer to take X with you, I will respect that and wish you all a lovely time. The boys and I will make a wonderful Christmas here."

Make it very clear that there is no other alternative (other than everyone staying home). It is you and the boys without X, or you and the boys staying home with X going with them.

And do it now before they have time to start booking things and telling you it's too late to change their plans, etc.

oh my god and i thought it was just my parents that were freaks over this! i left my ex husband (aka goldenbollocks) 4 years ago and they've never forgiven me - they make it perfectly obvious they don't like my partner, have no photos of him or of our daughter up in the house, but a great big one of me and my ex on the wall, and just to cap it, they went to visit him while they were on holiday for a nice cosy lunch together and weren't going to tell me (probably because they knew how i'd react, i found out by accident). sorry, i don't really have any advice but wanted to tell you it's a relief to know i'm not alone!

I agree with Freckle.

Make a lot of how you would love to spend time with them, create a different christmas now that you will be missing nan, perhaps a third option would be to say would it be possible to delay until the 27th so that ex can see the boys on Xmas day or Boxing day...but not as a joint family Xmas. And ex still wouldn't be going to florida!

I think you have to give all the same reasons to ex as well. Tell him that you are not trying to be difficult but you both know you separated for a reason and it doesn't help the boys to present any different. Also he knows that your parents put you in impossible situations.

Would he be able to get all that time off work, anyway.

Yes - the idea of a great long flight and ex being difficult sounds truly awful.

Write it down.

I think its a controlling move on the part of your parents, esp as they let him know before consulting you first. They could have mentioned it to you and asked you to think about it for the good of the children, then you could have got back to them. I donT like it, but then if you read my problems youll know I`m a bit biased because I have controlling parents from hell!

Pinkchampagne try to forget all about your parents, siblings, ex-husband, nana and anyboday else that you might normally spend Christmas with.

Clean slate. Pretend you are sitting at home Christmas Eve, boxing day or whenever you celebrate x-mas over here . You have cooked a splendid feast and are now just waiting for your guest/s to arrive.
Who do you want to walk through that door?
Who do you want to spend Christmas with?

It can be that simple. Christmas is about being extra kind to eachother and happy. There should be lots of smiles.

How many smiles will there be on your face if you go abroad with your parents and ex?
compare that to:
How many smiles will there be on your face if you stay at home with your little ones?

Your parents sound scarily like mine. My sister left her man over a year ago. They still have not accepted it. Beware though, think about what you want.
My parents now only speak to my sister's ex. Because they can control him but not her.
They don't accept her rules for contact, so they made friends with her ex and now only see the children through him.
Her ex and our parents have cosy dinner parties together discussing how stupid me and my sisters are.
Our parents are giving ex pointers on how to best hurt my sister.

Anyway that is a completely different story.

I do suggest that you figure out what you want, and then if they don't want the same you could consider making a new set of traditions for you and your children.

If you don't start making a stand your parents are going to continue to disrespect you and you (and your children) will be dancing to their tune for the rest of your life.

PLEASE NOTE that I am not suggesting that you cut your parents out of your life!! Only that you start making them respect you and your choices.

Thank you all for your great advice. I know I should toughen up to them more, and I frustrate myself because I find this so hard.

I know I have to talk with mum & soon, and I need to get the talk just right, so not to upset her.
Your examples of how to broach the subject are good, and I know I have to get this mess sorted as soon as possible.

I will talk to my sister about it tonight, and see what her thoughts are.

Unfortunately there is no way out of this one that isn't hard! Talking to your Mum or spending a hol abroad with ex....talk about a rock and a hard place!

I hope your sister understands.

I know, Blu, it is really hard.

If they had come out with this any other year, it would have been a straight "No, are you mad?"
The whole situation with it being the first year without nan, does make it much much harder, and I am more worried about causing upset because of this.

I know.

The thing is any normal mother would have suggested it to you (without imagining for a moment that she owuld invite her divorced SIL), and it would have been a really good idea, probably, or you might have had reservations, and you could have given your rsponses, whether you felt you wnated to etc, and any normal mother would listen and together you could hash out a lovely plan. With the odd nhiggle, obviously, it being about a family planning Christmas.

But oh no - your mother has to think up a plan and invite the last person on earth you wnat to spnd Xmas with, and then on top of it all, be impossible to speak to.

It will be better if you bring it up with her first, though. The dynamic is always better than if you are in the reacting position.

Aren't you furious with ex for seeming to accept? God, this and the key thing....

I know, Blu. I feel sorry for mum, and this is why I have got myself so uptight about the whole thing, but I know that it is all wrong that it has been kind of planned around me, and that it has been planned (and pretty much accepted) with my ex husband!!

I am angry with him, and especially now that he seems to be mentioning bits to the boys.
That is all probably part of his plan, as he knows that the boys being excited about a holiday, will make it tougher for me.

In a way they are all carrying on in some strange denial, both my parents and my ex.

My mum has a key to ex H's house!

Off to see my sister in half an hour, so I will be able to discuss it properly with her, and tell her why I just can't do it.
I do hope she can see where I'm coming from.

...whcih reminds me, if your Mum does still have a key to your house, is it one of those "non-cuttable" ones, so that she can't give a copy to your ex?

I still have her key.