Dating Thread 186 - Heading into Spring with thicker skin and a new outlook on dating

[Dancerinthemoonlight]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating. 2. Develop a thick skin.
2. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
3. It's all BS until it actually happens.
4. Trust your gut instinct.
5. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
6. Know your worth.
7. If it's not fun, stop.
8. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future 14. OLD can get very time consuming. Keep doing other activities you enjoy.

Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item.

@Fender222 I hope Miss Travel got in touch but if she doesnt dont take it to heart. It just means it wasnt right and while it hurts and is a bit shitty she couldn't tell you at least you know at this stage rather than months down the line.

@menora I'm surprised you are calling it your first disagreement, I seem to recall you and Mr M have had a few so far? How did he push your boundaries? I hope that hasn't been forgotten as you both got upset. Clearing the air is good. I'm the sort of person that can't keep my feelings in. So it all comes out in the wash at some point!

I also wouldn't think of it as 'withholding' sex. But I think future me (assuming I end up back on the market) would be best to wait until I was clearer of the emotions and intent. Post sex hormones really floor me. But maybe that's easy to say when there is a steady flow of it!

@clovertoast his kids would be asleep by 9? I'd expect a message even if it's a 'exhausted' style one. I don't think it's needy. You need what you need. I've had bfs who never messaged when away or with friends. And then realised how much I appreciate it when someone checks in when out. (Not texting me all night but a text at some point makes me feel I'm still on their mind).

@Menora I'm not really hoping to save her, but I would have been there for her and done all I could to support her. A previous ex suffered from depression and panic attacks, and I eventually realised that I couldn't "fix" her, but just had to be there for her, and leave her be when she needed space.

She was fine when we first got together - in fact one of the last things she said was that she wished she could feel like she did when we first met. I don't know if she's always been like this, but when her work issues started a few years ago she was on anti-depressants because of it. Then she got made redundant from her dream job (that she'd only been in for about 6 months) about 6 weeks after we started dating, which triggered her to feel depressed again.

During the next 6 weeks or so she was mostly fine, but then a couple of things happened that caused her even more stress, and it was then she decided she needed to focus on sorting out her life. She's also involved in a legal fight that has been dragging on for ages, and that's having a big impact on her too but should be resolved later in the summer, so I think it's likely she'll be in a better place in a few months.

There's a chance that she has just used this all as an excuse because she just wasn't feeling it with me, but I think there's also a good chance that it is just because she can't handle anything else in her life right now. I tend to take people at face value, and when she says it's nothing to do with me, and just bad timing I do tend to believe her.

@TheCatWithTheHat i would be very wary of anyone telling me thy were too depressed or stressed for a relationship. IME (and I realise these situations are always different for everyone) whenever this is used as a reason it's not actually the reason. I had a relationship with someone who used this exact reason as an explanation for his shit behaviour as I was ending it. When in reality he was dating others within weeks of us ending. I'm in no doubt he did have mental health issues but that wasnt the reason he acted the way he did. In my opinion (and I say this as someone who suffers with PTSD but invests alot of time into managing it to what is a high standard, unless you knew me well it would not be apparent at all) it's usually used as a cop out for bad behaviour. I understand alot of people will flog me for that opinion but in cases I've heard or experienced whenever someones mental health or stress issues are used as a reason to end a relationship it's very nearly always another reason.
But in any case I think that if you suffer from a mental health issue that impacts your life you need to use your energy to find a way of coping with that. Life is stressful, things happen and we have a responsibility to ourselves first and foremost to deal with that before inflicting it onto others. So if that is the truth for her she had no business looking and starting a relationship with anyone.
You mention you've been with partners before who have also suffered similar. Have you explored whether this could be a pattern. You say you dont want to fix someone but it sounds as though you have had more than one relationship where mentally youve tried to accept a larger portion of the emotional burden.
In any case, for whatever reason, she has decided she doesnt want to or isn't able to continue the relationship and I have noticed that the majority of your posts are largely about how she feels or what is happening to her, I think that in itself is telling. I really dont want to upset or offend you but I do think maybe you've become fixated on this one as something that will definitely restart once shes better. I think it's obvious that you have feelings towards her but while you're holding out that hope you will never be emotionally available for someone else. And while you're still so caught up in analysing it and checking in on her (even from a distance) you will never be able to move on. Also theres a risk of romanticising the relationship and not really being honest with yourself about why it didnt work and actually whether it wouldve worked anyway, taking her problems out of the equation.

I agree with @menora and @ALittleBitConfused1 @TheCatWithTheHat
This is a grown woman who has told you, repeatedly, she doesn't want to be in a Relationship with you. And yet you seem so sure you know better than her. I understand the pull of that connection. I'm still sometimes very sad that Mr S didn't feel the same way about me. Our connection was so strong. I felt we fitted perfectly together. And when he came back after me for 3 months he used the same words. I think back to the things he did, said and how he behaved with me. It all shouted to me that he felt the same. But he ended it. It hurt. But he didn't want to be with me. I have to accept that and move on. There's no benefit to me saying he's wrong and I know he really does want me if only this or that changed. I really think you need to delete Miss Confusing. Take away your access to her social media. Accept this isn't a rom com and she's asserted her right as a grown up to refuse a relationship with you.

@TheCatWithTheHat

It’s hard to explain what I mean but what you describe I do really understand it makes sense. You made her feel a certain way and you want the chance to do that all over again
I just wonder if as a person Miss C finds it hard to cope with any stress and shuts down and it’s possible this will never be any different? There will always be some stress which she is always going to find hard to manage

I don’t think it is about you, seen as you have already been in a RS with someone with similar issues I think it can feel familiar and almost like you know you can be the strong one?

@Notcoolmum

We had discussed things before if I didn’t like something but it was calm and not particularly emotional. This one was very emotional and had built up over a few days so it felt more intense. Essentially he had not really thought about how I might feel about a couple of his decisions and then didn’t listen to what I was trying to say by trying to change the subject. I don’t want to control what decisions he makes but I want to be considered that they might have an impact on me. He put me in a difficult position as he tried to change plans at the very very last moment (to suit himself) and didn’t think about how it came across to me or the impact on me

Cat I can relate to MsC in a way, I have poor MH at times but like to think I manage it relatively well. It's the only reason I have considered ending things with MrY before, I worry that my issues shouldn't be his issues and I'm not 'ready' for a relationship. When we met I didn't envisage it would be a RS, just a bit of fun/distraction, but he's so so good at managing me(?) for want of a better term that I want him in my life. He gives space when I really need it but also is so open to listening when I need to have difficult conversations. Ultimately he's just very understanding. And similar to Menora I've gone in to this relationship with a promise to myself that I won't sit on my feelings, good or bad!
What I'm trying to say in a convoluted way is that it could be a mixture of her mental health plus her inability to express it healthily in a relationship right now/with you. I suppose it's not out of the question that she'll be be back in touch when she's feeling in a better place, but it's worth bearing in mind that if she can't express herself with you for whatever reason, it's not a good basis for a RS. Essay! Sorry x

@TheCatWithTheHat She has already told you she doesn’t want to be in a relationship, on multiple occasions, but you are still ignoring her and essentially forcing your presence on her. You have also alluded to trying to get back together with her in the summer when she’s better (as you’ve convinced yourself you know better than her).

She is allowed to say no.

I had a lovely first date with Mr Finance last night. Met for a drink, chatted for 3 hours and had a good kiss at the end. He'd tx to ask me out Friday before I'd even got home which is nice!

I have a date with Mr Petrol on Wednesday which I'm also looking forward to although I'm feeling a bit nervous because there's been quite a lot of sex chat on messages and I feel like there's a bit of pressure now. Not that that's not what I want but I feel like there's almost an expectation and I'm worried the chemistry won't be there in person.

@TheCatWithTheHat what @SimonJT says. She's just not that into you so leave her alone. It's not going to happen so you're not helping yourself or her by refusing to hear what she's telling you. She's saying no.

Hi all, been lurking for a while now and thought I'd join the fray :)

Been OLD for a while now, had my share of weirdos, liars and disasters but I'm not giving up!

On the plus side I've done some great things, been taken to new places and learnt even more lessons so I'm using it as a way to grow if that makes sense? I'm learning a lot about myself and that's a really good thing right now.

Tomorrow I have a date lined up with a teacher and not sure if it will progress to anything but so far so good :)

@TheCatWithTheHat I am going thru a period of high stress and anxiety but I want to see mr g. He is like a bubble of calm and it makes me feel a lot better. If she doesn’t see you as her happy / safe person and still want to see you however she feels it’s maybe unlikely she doesn’t have strong feelings for you

Hi All, just checking in at the beginning of a new week. I had a few new matches over the weekend but despite various different "opening message" styles only ended up getting into conversion with 2 guys. Both very different. Mr Muddy has asked me out for a date on Thursday, but similar to @pomegranatefizz above the chat has been very suggestive so far so i'm not expecting anything other than the obvious from him. Also been chatting to Mr Buzz who is very different and says he's looking for a proper relationship so will see - but he hasn't asked me out so far and keeping to my guns and will not ask him.

I don't do sex chat with people I haven't met for that reason. I'd feel so embarrassed if the chemistry wasn't there. Plus I prefer sex chat that is based on our reality. I don't want to be wank fodder to a stranger who could be doing the same with countless others.

She's just not that into you so leave her alone. It's not going to happen so you're not helping yourself or her by refusing to hear what she's telling you. She's saying no.

This @TheCatWithTheHat why don't you listen to what she is saying? None of your exes that eventually got back with you worked out so it doesn't sound like this is some foolproof strategy.

You need to accept it is over and get on with your life. She has never been overly invested in you. Most the time you have been questioning her feelings and looking for excuses to explain her not committing or engaging more with you.

You are romanticising this whole situation because you aren't able to let go.

I'm having a massive wobble about meeting kids. It's came up at the weekend, and I don't know what to say. It feels like a huge commitment, and I enjoy that my relationship with Mr N is just for me, and is child free (the DC in question are mine). I'm not sure what to do.

He's happy to meet them but not pushing it. What questions should I be asking when we talk about this again? Any advice from the child-free by choice when dating someone with primary school age children would be great.

@TheCatWithTheHat - I agree with the posters up thread. Please listen to Miss Confusing when she says no and respect her right not to want a relationship with you.

UncorrectedDoormat

Both Mr M and I are reluctant re his small children and meeting. Me because I know I am quite motherly and will end up involved and I also want it just for us. I’m happy to delay it for the foreseeable

Partly due to he is unsure how his ex will react as I think he doesn’t want it to be a green light for her to integrate her affair partner into the DC lives as a boyfriend. Technically he cannot stop that happening and has no right to. I’m staying out of that part of it

What is driving this is there a reason they need to meet? Would it make life easier or harder?

@Notcoolmum, the chat with Mr Muddy is more the flirty suggestive type rather than outright sex chat but I know what you mean. It's a fine line I think between cheeky flirtatious and "dirty talk" and everyone's boundary with that is different. I'm meeting Mr Muddy at a busy restaurant so they'll be no chance of things going too far then - so am just going to enjoy a first date and see what happens.

@ALittleBitConfused1 I've only had one partner previously who suffered from it, and that was one of the reasons we broke up. I don't think it's a pattern, and when I met Miss Confusing she was in a good place so it wasn't apparent until we'd started seeing each other. So I don't think I have a tendency to look for people to fix. I'd much rather be with someone who is happy and open to a relationship! But it's not always easy to spot when someone has this tendency, at least when you first meet them.

@Notcoolmum She hasn't repeatedly told me - we've just had the one conversation last month when she ended it. Since then I haven't been in touch. I deleted her number and chat history that day as well, and removed myself from her social media (although I've had a couple of blips and had a look at her Instagram twice in the last month). I don't think I know better than her - I'm just processing my thoughts and feel sad that that it didn't work out.

@Menora I get the feeling that this is how she works (she said on several occasions she has a tendency to panic and run), and it's likely it would have caused issues in the future. But there's still a part of me that thinks "what if", and also hopes that she does get back in touch at some point.

@SimonJT she hasn't said it on multiple occasions, and I've not been in touch since the day she ended it so I'm not sure how I'm forcing my presence on her? I don't think I've said anywhere that I'm convinced I know better than her either.

@Windmillwhirl I'm not in touch with her, so I'm not sure how I can leave her alone more than I am - other than not thinking about her, which I can't really help. For the first half of the relationship she was engaging a lot (she was even mentioning kids, living together etc...) it was only towards the end (after she was made redundant) that she started pulling back at times, and even then it was intermittent.

I am trying to move on, but I've not felt a connection like it before so it's taking a while to accept it hasn't worked out. I'm certainly not bombarding her with messages to try and rekindle things, which is what some of the posts on here seem to suggest. I'm just trying to work through it myself, and get myself in a position where I can be ready to meet someone else without comparing them to her. The one thing I'm probably guilty of is over-thinking, and trying to second-guess the future.

I went through some pretty tough times about 5 years ago, and even though I was never diagnosed with depression (the thought never occurred to me), looking back at it I suspect I was suffering from it. I remember withdrawing and pushing friends and my partner away to a point where we almost broke up, and I just couldn't see anything outside of my little bubble. So I can understand a little of how she's feeling, and also know that you can get through it and feel different afterwards.

@Menora thanks.

We've been seeing each other for a while (over 6 months). I live in a very neighbourhood area, so if he comes to mine we do meet people I know, including other school parents. I don't want the DC to find out via the grapevine that I'm dating.

But I think it will make life harder. It might also end the relationship as MrN is not interested in children in general. But, I also can't see how much longer I can go on with two separate lives without them colliding at least a little bit.

Big discussions to have, I think.

@TheCatWithTheHat

I honestly think she’s one of those people who isn’t going to let herself be happy, and perhaps this is her personality type. She wants those things in a good moment in time, but has little resilience and low capacity to over come stress

The reason people feel like you want to fix her is because of how you are focused on how it was in the beginning - I understand how that feels and it is why people say it’s so addictive and intoxicating the first flush of something hopeful

You are having a hard time letting go of the hope not Miss C. To let go of the hope you had with her you need to open up to new hope that it can happen again.

Making a connection with someone isn’t something mythical, and it’s only worth something if is based on whether it has any capacity to progress.
I think with Miss C I wouldn’t be surprised if she is only able to be happy in that connection moment before real life creeps in and all the stresses catch up with her

You do need to stop romanticising this for your own good - stop reliving those moments over in your head as it is a type of obsessional thought

@UncorrectedDoormat

How old are the kids?
I believe in honesty with children and would tell them I am dating but there is no expectations that you will all meet him

Just that you are moving on from your divorce as you are entitled to do so! I wouldn’t worry too much about their reaction kids tend to worry more about themselves than their parents most of the time and if it is just information, with no actions attached to it they can then just process it in their own time?

@TheCatWithTheHat

Some people don’t get through depression though. It dogs them their whole life and they never climb out of the hole it creates. Some people feel safer living in the bubble forever

She honestly isn’t worth waiting for, harsh as that sounds - you are putting your own needs last by doing that

@UncorrectedDoormat re meeting children, Miss Haircut has kids (slightly over primary school age) and I don't (have never really wanted them until now). While things are in the early stages, I wouldn't want to meet them - it seems quite intrusive into another part of her life that I'm not part of.

I'd be very wary if she suggested me meeting them so soon (which she hasn't even hinted at), and at the moment I just want to spend time with her, enjoy each others company, and trying to figure out where things might lead.

If things do work out, then at some point I would expect to meet them - but I have no idea at what timescale I'd feel comfortable doing that. This is the first time I've dated anyone with kids though, so is uncharted territory for me and the thought of it makes me slightly nervous. How long have you been together with Mr N?