I think H has or is about to put tracker on my car

[PressToChange]

I went in to Hs bedroom to put son's new Fitbit type watch on charge. Out of the cables I didn't know which but saw one had a label which said Trackisafe and a code.
I googled it. It's a mini tracking device. It needs two apps, the Trackisafe one and a V for Vodafone app.
We have Apple so I can see he has purchased both apps. I managed to get hold of his phone very briefly and he has downloaded and set up both apps. I couldn't get on there long enough to see maps.
I also found the box, opened it and the tracker isn't in the box.
I went out to the car while he was out saying I needed to get all the rubbish out if there. Lots of dc so easy to be true. I couldn't find anything.
It's half term and we are both at home.
From the date of app purchase a coupe of weeks ago, I'm guessing he either removed it before half term or will put it in after school starts again.
I cannot confront him as I don't have firm evidence. Plus I don't want him to know I can get on his phone.
Background is before Christmas in 2018 he hit me, I called police. He has a caution for assault. I now know I have been living in a controlling coercive marriage. (Not trying to down play. It's utterly shit. Just being factual to keep post as short as possible)
In Sept when I told him I was serious about divorce he cut me out of his bank account. Apparently we haven't needed a joint account I could just access his but no more.
At Christmas I told him I would endure it with him and then start divorce proceedings.
The Friday before I know he purchased the apps and most likely took delivery of the tracker I told him we have to draw this to a close. No one is happy etc. It is going to end up in divorce.
He is in COMPLETE denial.
I think he is a narcissist in the true clinical definition, I'm not just calling names.
I have a solicitor appointment booked for next week.
What do I do? What should I do? What is likely to happen to him because if I do find a tracker I won't touch it but will drive to the nearest police station. What if I never find a tracker I just strongly suspect it?
Please be kind. I know this is not right and needs to be over but because of the way he is have been doing baby steps trying to do things gently and safely rather than full on. I do not live in fear day to day but am concerned he could be volatile. He had had mental health issues too.

As I said previously @PressToChange, if you go to the police about the tracker then you could a non molestation and occupation order for yourself and your home.

What he is doing is illegal.

I hope you are okay within yourself OP.. living like this sounds so exhausting 🌺

What a piece of work he is. Having come out the other side of a controlling and manipulative marriage i can fully empathise with what you are going through. It’s tough but it will get better, you’ll have good and bad weeks, but the bad weeks become bad days and the good days become good weeks. Your kids are a bit older then mine were went I went brought my divorce, so they have more of a say about what they want. They probably more clever and switched on than what you think, just keep being the ‘Normal’ parent and they’ll soon see though your stbxh’s mask.

Keep using the ‘grey rock technique’ with him, the ‘your call’ call is a good move with the health insurance. Keep interactions with him to a minimal, simple ‘yes’ ‘no’ ‘ok’ answers. Be polite, but business like. It doesn’t help that you are in the same house still, don’t be pressured into an answer, put it back on him and keep doing that.

You’re actions have massively dented his fragile ego, how dare you defy him, how dare you take control away from him. He sounds a narcissist alright and the more you learn about them the more you understand how to deal with them.

Once my divorce got going my ex suggested ‘no solicitors, let’s work things out together’ what a mistake, after 2 years of getting nowhere, threats to move away with the children I handed everything over to my solicitor..any attempt to resolve things on our own were shut down with ‘discuss it with my solicitor, they are dealing with all aspects of the divorce’. You’ll probably enrage him, he’ll throw tantrums etc” but stay strong, you’ll get through it.

Hi,
I’m sure a previous poster in a similar position used to add cash back to every supermarket shop. It wasn’t noticed by the husband but, over time, added up & provided her with some savings for when they eventually split (or if she needed to make a quick getaway).
Could this be an option for you? Obviously, check he wouldn’t notice though - does he go through receipts?

I’ve just read through the thread. You are awesome Press

Out of total interest.

Why is H putting a tracker in this car considered "bad" by the mumsnet community but the W putting a tracker in the car was considered good?

Q. Is gender more important than action?

Have you checked the kids car seats/boosters?
Could he have planted it on something one of your children carries with them?
Like PP have said If he needs regular access to charge it, it might not actually be on you.
I'm so sorry you are going through this OP. It sounds horrendous. Stay strong

you're doing fantastic OP.. ignore stupid questions irrelevant to your distressing personal situation 🌺

@AlwaysInTroubleAgain 2 different situations.
When the women did it, she had it done for a short period of time to prove he was cheating, something he was doing but denying.
She needed the proof as he had a habit of gaslighting her and she needed the proof to proceed with the divorce with the evidence she needed so he couldn't accuse her of lying.
She Also found numerous other bits of evidence all which helped her case and will ensure he can't deny it and get a fair divorce settlement. The tracker was a 2 week thing till she got the evidence required.
There's more to the story but I followed it at the time and her reasoning made sense

In this case it's about control, he's an abusive husband. He's physically abused his wife, she is living in a controlling relationship, he has taken away all her access to money and is now trying to keep track of every movement she makes.
I think based on the situations is why the responses are so different.

Another point @AlwaysInTroubleAgain is the ownership of the car - this is her sole property.

I now have a dash cam on the car which will wake up if there's a bump or when a door is opened. I can check each morning and look at the files but so far the car has not been opened out of my hours using it.
I think he may have got cold feet or realised the dash cam could sense this.

I'm now trying to concentrate a bit on myself. Listening to podcasts about control and narcissist behaviour has been such an education. It's all there. Sadly it's like a script playing out for many women.

One I listened to today made me upset and angry as it reminded me of counselling we both attended probably 11 or so years ago. The podcast talked about how one party had to do things so perfectly all the time and had to try so hard.

I remember raising this in counselling saying I'd had enough of being expected to do things to 200% but when the tables were turned and he had to do the exact same task those extraordinary high expectations just weren't there.
I have been blinded by so many red flags I'm almost embarrassed

However I have read about the frog in the boiling water analogy and think yes that's me.
I have a book arriving on Monday which was discussed in a podcast and sounded really useful.
[[https://www.amazon.co.uk/kindle-dbs/author/ref=mapp_dp_a_ap?_encoding=UTF8&author=Lindsey%20Ellison&searchAlias=books&asin=B07KYVWPHS
Lindsey Ellison]]
MAGIC Words: How To Get What You Want From a Narcissist

Another podcast said once you stop seeing thing veiled in love you can see things for what they are. I can certainly see that.

He has barely spoken to me in the last couple of weeks (inspire of the I can't change the past but I can change the future BS).
Then I discovered today that he's been texting my teenagers about a weekend away in May. Along the lines of "its got 4 bedrooms do you think mummy will come?"

What the actual F, this is deliberately setting me up to be the bad guy. Ignoring me. Financial abusing me. Gaslighting with the I can only change the future shit. But saying to the children "hey I'm the nice guy we could all go away do you think mummy will come?" - all the time knowing that the answer is no. Mummy will not be joining in your fantasy any more. Oh any by the way kids, when this discussion is going on, I'm threatening to take you off private health insurance. I think not....

I also was chatting to a Mum at the school gates and told her for the first time about my situation, including the healthcare threats. Quite unbelievable but she said she had a friend going through a similar sounding separation and the friends stbX took their sick son off healthcare ins. So it looks like it's a common tactic to keep the wife in check and in her place.

I'm Slightly worried about my spending on new clothes!! I wore one of my new outfits yesterday and also a new one today and had so many lovely compliments from people at drop off and at school. It was quite unexpected and I did say I'm trying to step away from my comfort zone.

Perhaps this is my way of a dress rehearsal, step away from my comfort zone in clothes and use that strength in separation.

Just talking about comments that what he is doing is illegal, I do thank you for that support and acknowledgement. I do know what he is doing in terms of coercive and financial control along with the tracker is illegal. It's all documented with my solicitor. I've decided to sit tight with the information that I have because of a few reasons. One of them is that I don't think it would be helpful to the children to have a father in jail. That's not to say I wouldn't call the police if an incident occurred again or I thought we were in danger because I would. Plus the solicitor thinks there is enough documented evidence to produce in any future child related court action too.
Thanks @fannycraddock72 that's exactly it. I think I might be the first person in his adult life that had said no to him and he hasn't been able to change it. Not with threats, promises incentives etc. Yes I think that I have damaged his fragile ego and that's why I'm treading lightly because I think he's volatile in this stage.
I feel like if I grow myself whilst having as little interaction (grey rock) as possible whilst the solicitor gets in with stuff I'll be giving myself the best chance to survive this.

It maybe different in the UK because you have the NHS, but it the US it's quite usual to have stipulated in the divorce papers that whoever has the health insurance is required to keep the children covered until they reach a specified age, usually 18, or until they graduate from uni. Not the ex, just the children.

You may want to speak to your solicitor about adding that to your petition.

“I have been blinded by so many red flags I'm almost embarrassed“

You definitely aren’t the first and you won’t be the last. I know exactly how you feel...my ex wore and still wears a mask of being a wonderful, charming human being. I fell for it for 20 years, it’s only after the mask slips that you realise who they really are. When you expose them their fragile ego is so wounded they react with rage and retaliation. try not to react, if he gets to you walk away, go for a walk, go for a drive...give yourself time to realise he’s playing a game and he’s trying to trigger you into a reaction. Hurting you and seeing you in pain is what feeds his ego and narcissistic supply, don’t give it to him. He’ll learn eventually that you aren’t willing to play his games.

I’m grateful that I have the chance to live my life free from the abuse, it wasn’t full on overt abuse but a subtle, covert abuse that eats away at you over time. Though for you It does sound like he’s slipped big time with the physical abuse. Even now I ask my self did I over react, were they really that bad? The answer is in their actions and not in their words. everytime answer is ‘yes’. I’ve given up trying to explain to people what I went through, unless they’ve been through it they just don’t get it.

Stay strong, be the better person, your kids will see through his bullshit.

Wow your update, you are doing so well. Keep going grey rock..

OP you are doing fantastically well ! You should be SO proud of yourself!

I read your post about your DH now texting your DC to try to make himself the 'good guy', and I wondered what ages your DC are ?

If they were old enough to understand how underhand he was being with the texts, or if they were too young to get it ?

Obviously, do what your solicitor has advised, but.............

If they are old enough, I'd be tempted the next time he asked about the health insurance to not reply at the time he asked, but to bring it up with the children present. e.g ''Did you decide to remove the children and I from your private health insurance............or not ??''

I'd also tell the children that you are separated and help them cope with it. When they know that you are separated, they may well ask about the 4 bedroom place blah, blah............and you can truthfully say that no, you would not be going there....and Dad KNOWS this !

He will only be able to hurt your children and continue to make himself out to be the ''good guy'' as long as you keep the secret of your separation from your kids and friends/ family.
Take the initiative and tell everyone that you are separated, don't give him the chance to undermine you.

As for money, I'd also strongly advise getting some 'cashback' every time and hiding the money. You can simply tell 'el pricko'' that you've lost the receipt if he asks for it. Again, I'd say that in front of witnesses e.g DC, so that he doesn't feel able to alienate them by getting angry with you.

Please keep us updated when you can, we're all rooting for you ! :)

I truly admire you for managing with the 'grey rock' technique, and like I said earlier, only do what your solicitor has advised.

@PressT Thinking of you. Hope all is well?

Thank you for the support. Thank you for asking but if I'm honest I'm having a bit of a low point. I just wish it were all over. I look at him and despise him.

I think I may have had information/revelation overload. Too much too soon? I don't know? I've been doing my podcasts at least twice a day during the week to and from work. Everything I listen to I can identify with and I don't like it.

Looking back I am so the frog in the pan of cold water slowly brought to boiling. It makes me angry and I don't have anyway to take out my frustrations because narcissistic people don't see that they've done anything wrong.

There's really no point in saying anything to him because a. He won't get it because he's such a nice guy. Blameless to be exact. And b. he will twist what I say and use it against me.

I can see so clearly how I've been taken advantage of. Angry that Ive only seen it now. Angry I was treated that way. F()£ing angry he's still trying to do it now. Angry that he won't leave. Angry he's manipulative.
Reading that back I think I might be a little angry 😬.....
I know it won't last. But right now I feel like a trapped animal.

I met with a relatively new friend today who had an H v similar to mine and it was so nice to chat because she got it. She was so kind as she shared a lot of personal detail in order to help me. She said she wished she had been as strong as I am now during her split. It was lovely to hear but I said I really don't feel strong and she said but you are you're far more aware than I was at this stage.

I just need to gather myself together and rally, it's just that right now it feels like an uphill struggle.

Thinking of you Op. Stay strong, you are doing brilliantly. 💐

I don't know? I've been doing my podcasts at least twice a day during the week to and from work. Everything I listen to I can identify with and I don't like it.

I understand the feeling of 'information overload'.

You know, sometimes it's enough to just know that we are being treated badly, we are unhappy, and that we want OUT. Sometimes we don't have to bury ourselves in the minute details of 'why'.

If it helps 'arm you' against his tactics or otherwise helps you to resist his trying to draw you in, then there is value in learning all you can. But if you're watching just to justify your decision to end the relationship, then perhaps you know 'enough'. You know that you are not happy and you deserve better.

Thanks @AcrossthePond55 I've found the podcasts really useful and informative. I think I just got to the point where it felt like my life has been a scripted play out of classic control, and narcissist abuse. And I didn't see it, chose not to leave at earlier points. That compounded by his Presence in the house acting like nothing had happened. I mean ffs how normal is it to be living in separate rooms, barely speaking, withholding funds and he thinks we are in some way not separated. It's just a rough patch?????

I found the podcast prepared me for events too.
When y 7 year old said out of the blue - if you and daddy divorce I'm going to live with daddy - I was prepared as I'd listened to a similar scenario. When I asked why, it's because he's nicer than me. Well in the eyes of a 7 year old that's not hard is it, one parent setting the boundaries, requiring manners and standards and the other letting him play on daddy's phone for two hours so when I try to do stuff he's wound up and angry... so I knew from the podcasts that my ds was not saying it to hurt me, just said it because what matters to him at 7 is not bedtime routines and teeth brushing.

the solicitor sent me drafts of the divorce papers through on Friday. When I read the reasons for unreasonable behaviourI found it quite hard hitting. I don't know whether to ask for them to be tuned down slightly. It's like all the stuff that he's done, the two cautions for assault are the elephant in the room but it's down in black and white.
But then after his childishness just now I feel like I'm going to leave it.
Stupid man just accused me of picking an argument with him. I wasn't picking an argument I told him. I asked him to clear up after himself and said it would be nice if all the adults could behave like adults. He said yes wouldn't it, chuckling away as though I were at fault.
Amazing isn't it how something is turned around right before my eyes. A reasonable request to clear the table of the crap he'd been using = me picking an argument and behaving like a child.
I can see that in the past I would have just fixed the table myself because I'd know there was no point and it'd be quicker and easier.
I wish he would just go. He has a house although some distance away. It's empty. But then he's not at fault for any of this is he? He's like Teflon as nothing sticks.
The solicitor said the violence is too far away to get various orders. Meanwhile I'm tormenting myself on right move. Looking at rentals that I simply can't afford.
I will get through this, I will get through this.....

Amazing isn't it how something is turned around right before my eyes.

I'm not sure if DARVO has been mentioned on this thread or if you've come across it. A dear friend has a boyfriend who is a master at this and we came across it online. "Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender". It was quite a revelation to me and had no name back in the late '70s when I was in an abusive relationship.

Living in the same house must be pure hell. I only had to deal with that for a couple of weeks because my exH knew that we were in MY hometown where I had a big brother and lots of big male cousins. Again, this was in the 70s and kicking the shit out of someone (yes, I know it's wrong) wasn't quite so unacceptable back then. Like most abusers, he was really a coward at heart.

I think you are right to keep all the grounds in your petition. I think it's a case of throwing everything at the wall, letting it all stick, and him having to try and pull some of it off that wall.

Now, I may be way off base and it may be impossible but if he won't go to the 'spare house', can you and the DC? Would it do any good to threaten him with it?

Abusers know how hard it is to find and 'train' a victim. That's why they hold on to us so damned hard. It has nothing to do with 'love' because they don't know how to love someone else, only themselves. If there was a new victim waiting round every corner, they'd let us go without a by-your-leave.

Yes, you will get through this. It's a pretty well trodden path and many others have walked it before you, many others will walk it after you. And those that have gone before will be around to show you the way.

@PressToChange i have been following this thread and in awe of your strength and courage through the situation.

I do hope in this current lockdown climate that you are ok and are able to find some respite from what i can imagine to be a constantly quite tense situation.

@BarryTheKestrel thank you for your kind words. tbh (completely honest) on Tuesday I phoned my counsellor in floods of tears. I hadn't quite realised the extent that I had relied on going to work as a respite and escape from home.

Practically I was at the point where the solicitor had sent a draft to me and the next thing would have been to serve divorce papers for unreasonable behaviour which would have stated a multitude of things, not least his convictions for assault.

As we could spend the next 12 was in very close quarters, I could have to rely on him to bring me food and medication etc if I get sick I have decided to wait until society gets past the current crisis and then will serve papers.

One thing that has become apparent really clearly, is that I do not wish to spend the rest of my life with this person. Life is way to short to be apologetic that I don't want to put up with his sh1t anymore.

I mean I look at him. See his behaviour and attitude towards me and there really is nothing there so why does he believe we have anything like a relationship.

It's ridiculous but the way I feel now is that if there is a sudden national emergency again, I would like to be in a relationship where someone demonstratively loves and cares for me than this nothingness where he purports to care, tells me nothings so broken it can't be fixed. But had no kind words or emotion for me.

Good luck op you've been so strong
I hope you can get out soon and start a wonderful new life.