Seriously, is this a thing??

[Querying]

Hi. I've been dating someone for a few weeks. Seems okay, but clearly still in the early stages of getting to know. He seems alright. We share a lot of the same values.

A couple of weeks ago, he invited me over to his apartment (not for sex). I was quite excited and looking forward to seeing where he lived, etc.

As soon as he let me in, my heart sank. His place was an absolute tip; curtains not properly open, pictures not hung up on the wall (left at side of chair), rug in the hallway was all skuwif (sp). I was quite surprised, and disappointed.

There was no milk in fridge so couldn't even make me a cuppa (he doesn't drink hot drinks, but knows I do).

Now this is where I think I'm judging. He's got quite a 'high-flying' job and I guess I expected his apartment to reflect that.

I've spoken to two friends. One has said that it's unacceptable and the other has said that perhaps he doesn't place tidiness as a top priority. I must say, his place didn't smell great, either.

But, here's the thing; surely if you know someone is coming over, you make the effort? Is there any genuine reason why this would not be the case (apart from the fact that he maybe doesn't care too much about me? )

Ps, I've seen him a couple of times, since...not at his place.

Some men (or maybe many!) when single, have no interest in cushions or plants or nice prints on the walls, stylish window decoration etc. Things we women go shopping for and take pleasure in adding to rooms etc etc It really is a gender thing in my opinion.

A roof and four walls, basic kitchen and bathroom are all that are needed. I had a boyfriend many years ago who had a one bed flat and despite living there for over 5 years never used the iving room once. It was bare. He lived in his bedroom so could have saved money by renting a studio bedsit place I suppose. He was clean though.

The best test is to see if the toilet is clean, VERY clean. End of.

Haha, when I first when round my now-husband's flat, it was like that. Receipt everywhere, washing piles, loads of washing up, recycling piled up in the middle of the kitchen. I remember thinking, jesus christ!

Months later he told me that he'd actually got up at 6am that day to tidy the place up! So I can't imagine what it was like before....

He is so lovely that I can overlook that - no-one is perfect. At the time he had no self-esteem and thought "well, there's no point tidying up just for myself", and I invited myself round the night before at the eleventh hour (literally). Now we live together he is a lot better; not tidy, but not squalid.

*so he didn't really have time for a massive clean

@Querying

You sound bizarrely fussy and anal.

And very hard work.

OP, only you will know if there's a spark between you that makes it worth it. None of us can tell you.

My DH always had an immaculate flat when I met him - but he's not that tidy now. In fact he drives me a bit mad with all his stuff, and he's not great at putting stuff away. I'm always saying "is this for the bin?" and they answer is 'yes' 90% of the time. Well why didn't you put it in the bin then?? I always just knew he was the man for me though.

Can you describe the actual mess? Curtains half open, a picture not up and a skew-whiff rug doesn’t equal mess.

Let’s hear about the actual mess!

Not what I would call a tip personally. With the milk it probably didn't even occur him as he doesn't drink it, in the same way I never used but sugar as I didn't use it.
However you did think it was a tip and I think that's the point. If your relationship becomes long term and you decide to live together will you be able to cope with his standards of cleaning/tidying?

Actually lol’ing at how some people consider a non-drawn curtain and some pictures yet to be hung signs of a slob or lack or basic adulting 😂 unless there’s a massive drip feed coming and he had dirty plates strewn everywhere and skid marks in the bog

How does he dress for this job of his? Really well, I guess? Does he seem clean?

I have no pictures on my wall and my curtain is closed does this make it a tip?

This is why I hardly ever invite people 'round. People judge other peoples homes for things that wouldn't even cross my mind.

Umm... I only had one curtain closed for most of today (sunlight) and on my spare room floor are all the Christmas decorations waiting to go up in the loft still, and there are pictures propped up in the study, waiting to be put up. My front door mat is always skewed for some reason, and I've not hoovered the living room for days. There's 'stuff' here and there in most rooms. I'm not a neat freak.

But the place isn't unhygienic (I have one cleaner), and I've brought up two young women who know how to keep house. I think I'd find it hard to live with you though, OP. You sound really anal.

And, is what 'a thing'? Not having a home like a hotel lobby? Your title is rather hyperbolic.

I don't think I'd want to invite you round to my house. Not because it's particularly messy (though not to your standards of tidiness either) but because I rather think you'd be gossiping about it's imperfections afterwards. 'OMG, their shoes were just in a pile, not even on a shoe-rack! I had no idea that was even a thing!!!'

Yuck, I'd have walked right back out!

Bet his sheets stink

It doesn't sound bad to be honest
Curtains not open - so? Pictures not hung, rug wonky, so? Why would you expect him to buy milk that he won't use just for you to have a cup of tea?
What else was wrong?

This. It's kind of important because yes, if a guy lives in a tip, that's not a good sign and YANBU.

But if the worst of it really was a wonky rug, unhung picture and unopened curtain, then Y most definitely ABU.

It'll be his dyslexia, I've gto it an can never pi;ll thje curtains. He's a keeper. Your parents sound anal. I think you should kil them

I guess the right person for him wouldn't care/notice?

Not necessarily - there tends to be one person in a relationship who's the more tidy/organised/better cook/more practical etc so usually it balances out. Two slobs living together would be a nightmare and two super tidy people would be a waste!

My DP is a bit of a (self-confessed) slob at home but is marginally better at my house because he knows it bothers me. TBH it has put me off moving in together in future, but he pays for a cleaner to come to both of our houses, so sees that as his contribution.

The first time I visited his house I was a bit taken aback at the mess and it hasn't got any better, so we just spend more time at mine.

He's very successful at work, but not one of those sharp-suited types (in fact people at work tell him he looks homeless when he hasn't had a shave for a few days ) but TBH his attitude at work is very much 'work smart not hard' so that stacks up I guess.

My DP is very much a decent bloke, treats me nicely, very affectionate, rubs my feet, great if messy cook, takes me on lovely holidays, buys thoughtful gifts, brings me flowers, amazing in the sack, ticks more or less all the boxes. Just a messy sod. I wouldn't swap him. This is not a good reason to write off a good un!

Sofonisba. I think that is what I am struggling with. Am I being overly critical because of how I was brought up?

You do sound very over-critical TBH. People have asked you repeatedly to describe the mess and you haven't. I'm thinking maybe there wasn't actually any? that said, if what matters to you most in a man is that they open both curtains and straighten the hall rug then he is not the man for you. Is that really a massively big deal for you? what makes that feel so important that you'd walk away from a man who in other ways you seem to be quite fond of?

I think some people just aren't that bothered or they literally don't see what we might see.
When I first went round to DH's house it wasnt great, he lived with another male friend and housework just wasnt a priority. He did always make an effort with his room though if I was staying over, fresh bedding, a quick hoover and tidy. It wasn't something that put me off him.

Sofonisba. I think that is what I am struggling with. Am I being overly critical because of how I was brought up?

If your examples really are the worst of it, then yes, I'd say you're definitely being overly critical!

My DH didn't have a glamorous place when we met but he always made sure it was tidy and he had whatever I wanted to drink available

I think it's odd really, especially considering he invited you over so he should've been prepared

what makes that feel so important that you'd walk away from a man who in other ways you seem to be quite fond of?

73Sunglasslover, this is what I'm trying to get to the bottom of. The mess, which I now realise, to others, was a 'mess' was as described in the OP.

And I agree with the overly-critical bit. My gut reaction was 'ewwww', closely followed by 'but does it matter?' and so I've been bouncing between the two opinions.

I don't for one minute think it's a very nice/kind trait to have. I hated the fact that my mother was so critical. In fact the interaction with my mother, from childhood and onwards, could be summed up as "She never really saw me, just saw how presentable I was".