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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is this a big red flag? Or am I a big red flag?

648 replies

aquickfiresidechat · 25/01/2020 23:19

I've been dating someone for a year. He works in the Geneva office of my company and he travels to London, and I to Geneva, once every other week, so it works out that we have seen each other for a period of days (2 or 3) each week staying at each other's flats/or hotels.

In the company we have a bulletin that goes round daily saying who is in which office within Europe. New man and I also have access to each other's calendars so some days I like to see what he is up to and imagine him going about his day and I always imagined he liked this too.

Anyway, we both went away separately for Christmas and came back early January. We were talking and chatting regularly on the phone like we always do about when we could next see each other. He then went on a business trip and was busy with meetings and time difference, so we did not get a chance to speak much.

Two weeks ago, I noticed on the company bulletin that he was due to be in London the next day. I assumed he had just forgotten to mention it being so busy and that he would make arrangements with me shortly. The next day came and he was not in the office. I double clicked on his diary and saw that he was in meetings in London but not coming into the office.

I sent him a message and said "why didn't you tell me you are in London? Can we see each other tonight?" He texted back a bit short and told me to meet him for a drink after work.

I arrived and asked him how he was. He said, "shocked." I said "why shocked?" he said "because you have been going through my diary and checking up on me." I said "but we have access to each other's diaries, I saw you were in London, and I assumed we'd see each other?" He sat there open mouthed for about 10 mins while I tried to justify why I had looked at his diary and questioned him.

When I got upset he became softer and said he wanted to make me happy and he was sorry for not telling me, but he had terrible jetlag, was completely underwater with work and not yet recovered from Christmas and just felt he needed a night to sleep. He cancelled his client dinner and we spent most of the evening talking about it. I was actually crying because I was so shocked at the sudden attitude change. He asked me to stay the night and I was still quite upset and said no, and we went our separate ways and he flew back to Geneva the next day. We agreed that we would communicate openly about when he is in London going forward.

The next morning he rang me before his flight, quite agitated and said that he had not slept a wink because he felt quite angry that I would demand he see me every time he is in London. He said it had nothing to do with seeing anyone else or not wanting the relationship, but he would be travelling to the UK more frequently and just the thought that, that would be my expectation every single time he was here felt very demanding. His justification for this was that he was most often knackered and would have evening meetings with clients or customers and therefore would not want to trek over to my flat at 11pm or midnight and then fly back to Geneva the next day. He said "you are my priority, but you cannot be my priority all the time." While I wasn't really happy with this, we agreed that he would tell me when he was in London even if he was not going to see me.

I found this new arrangement quite difficult to understand, as this was obviously not our previous pattern, so I didn't feel I was delusional or imagining the relationship was more than it was, for expecting the previous pattern to continue, even though at the time he was telling me this I was apologising rather than justifying my thought process. I felt that he reset the relationship and bamboozled me into thinking that questioning him or his behaviour was stalker-esque or obsessive.

We carried on speaking on the phone every day and texting a lot (it's always him initiating contact. He calls me about five times a day just to chat,) Three days later the company bulletin came again saying that he was in London. He had not told me this.

I double clicked on his diary only to see that he had codified it. Ie, replaced information with a letter and a number. All bookings and reservations that he usually made and I could previously see were now password protected and then diary entries had been made private. Seeing this made me feel like a stalker and made me think that he thought I was a stalker.

He carried on throughout the day communicating with me as normal. I did not ask him where he was. At around 7pm he said he was off to a client dinner and that he would sign off the the night as it would be late. I assume he thought I thought he was in Geneva.

I don't know what got into me but I felt I wanted to know for sure, so at midnight I went to the hotel he normally stays at while here, and I waited in a bar over the road where I could see the door. Lo and behold, I saw him returning to the hotel and going in late. Alone.

I texted him. "Hey can we talk?" He replied immediately. "Sorry, no. Off to bed."

I felt humiliated and embarrassed of myself and like a true stalker. The next morning I decided it was over. I felt that if I told him the reasons why (I was upset he had coded his diary and I had spied on him outside his hotel) it would give me more reasons to feel embarrassed. So I just stopped communicating with him entirely.

Two weeks went by and I ignored all calls and messages and took a week off work to go away and switched my phone off. When I came back to work, I found him in my office, beside himself. Why had I done this to him? What was my problem? Why had I not replied to him? What did I think I was doing? He had been in London looking for me etc.

I've agreed to chat to him about it all on Wednesday when I am next in Geneva. I don't trust him. I cant tell him why.

I don't know anymore whether his behaviour is the red flag or whether mine is.

What do you think??

OP posts:
GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 09:41

If that were the case why has he now turned up at her desk, concerned at having been ghosted. Did you bother to read any of this?

After seeing her every week in one country or another for a year and contacting her several times a day ... Some (drunk?) people just live to try to stick the boot in.

madcatladyforever · 26/01/2020 09:43

I don't like men very much but even I think you are being unreasonable here.
You just cannot stalk a colleague like this and make unreasonable demands.
If I was going to be in London for one night and tired/busy at work I would not want the added pressure of having to go and see somebody. Sometimes you need to just do your job and go to bed.
I am sure it's quite possible to arrange meet ups another time.
I think you are being really needy and if someone treated me like that I'd be off.
Why not just have fun together when you can and just let him plan his own life and work.
You are not married to him and have only been dating for a year.
I think you are scaring him off.

Legallybleachblonde · 26/01/2020 09:44

There are some crude comments on here. I cant see this relationship going anywhere to be honest - it just all sounds surreal and like you've been living in a parallel universe. Yes, I can understand the excitement of snatching these moments when and where you can but I think maybe the novelty has now worn off (for him at least) and it appears he is starting to feel the pressure from you, hence the coding in the diary. You say you speak five times a day but it doesnt sound like you're communicating at all. Relationships can't exist in their own little bubble forever. I'm sure you have shared some really special moments together and you will never forget them but I think it's time for you to move on now. There's been a shift in the balance; the relationship has become too one-sided and it's having negative effects on your behaviour - you have already noticed this. You sound a bright woman; trust your instinct. X

DameSquashalot · 26/01/2020 10:02

@MMmomDD has hit the nail on the head

WellHolyGodMiley · 26/01/2020 10:32

Just say 'Im ending it because what feels normal open and healthy to us differs''.

Good luck

I think he is being very precious. It's a fucking work diary. And he was your boyfriend and you do need to plan your week if you are going to find time for a bf who is only around some of the time.

He made you feel bad. Don't analyse that. You'll talk yourself out of your gut.

MaeveDidIt · 26/01/2020 10:35

You're a very strong lady and I admire you for going away and switching your phone off. That took a lot of mental strength and determination.

He has changed the dynamics of your relationship and wants it on his terms. It is possible that he has met someone/is interested in someone, and wants to cool it with you, but doesn't want to quite let you go yet because you are too useful.

HE was changing you into a person that isn't you (insecure and uncertain) and I entirely understand why your instincts told you do it, but it is a downward spiral, and you obviously know that.

Leave him and don't go into any details (he could so easily use them against you) - simply say it is not working for you anymore.

Good luck 🍀

Jomarchsburntskirt · 26/01/2020 10:56

He’s probably married and you’re behaving like a stalker. You sound better off without each other.

jewel1968 · 26/01/2020 11:10

It was a work diary. In my organisation our work diaries are open to everyone in the organisation. The bulletin that is circulated indicates to me that their is transparency in the organisation. His reaction to your looking at his diary is odd.

He then has a sleepless night because he feels you have pressured him into revealing his whereabouts. Has he forgotten the bulletin? He has overreacted. Why? Who knows.

He then doesn't do what he has agreed to do and doesn't tell you when he is in London. Again has he forgotten the bulletin?

I can see why you sat outside hotel. You wanted certainty that he has broken his promise. It helped you make a decision.

If he thinks you were overbearing and he needs his own time he should have said.

I don't think you will ever trust him if you stay. If you don't want to reveal how you know for certain he was in London you could say that you saw the bulletin and assumed he was in London but that he never told you. You could ask - were you in London as per the bulletin? If he answers truthfully you can then say how It makes you feel etc....

Hadtoask · 26/01/2020 11:31

He’s probably married. He wants you to be available but he’s not going anywhere with the relationship with you.
Just leave now. It’s not for you.

Barbararara · 26/01/2020 11:32

I can’t begin to unpick this. So instead I’ll say this: I really like who I am when I’m with dh. He brings out the best in me.

Like any couple we row and make up, and I’m not afraid or wary of rows in the future. How you row with each other - how you both act in anger and speak to each other, and how you feel in the aftermath, and if/how you moderate your behaviour afterwards is a very accurate barometer for a relationship.

LovePoppy · 26/01/2020 11:38

A midnight drive-by is far different than sticking out a bar across the street from the hotel.

Op didn’t then end it . She ignored all communication and then went on vacation for a week and turned off her phone. She completely ghosted him. Which by most people’s definition is a form of abuse.

She looks terrible here.

Saxineno · 26/01/2020 11:40

You both sound toxic to each other. You've said this isn't normal for you, and you don't like who this relationship is turning you in to, do I suggest you make a clean break.

P999 · 26/01/2020 11:51

I would follow Gilbert's advise to the letter. I also think the diary thing he did was aggressive. Not sure if deliberate, but so what. I think posters should stop giving her a hard time over the hotel thing. Sounds like it's all on his terms and she can like it or lump it. She's decided to lump it. Good for her!

GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 12:16

What would you call it had a man done it? I’d call it stalking.

If a man waited to confirm that his girlfriend - a woman he's been seeing every week for a year and who texts him several times a day etc. - was in his city, without telling him .. having had a discussion bin which she said she would let him know if she was in his city, regardless of whether she wanted to meet ... Before he decided his to proceed (or not as the case may be)with the relationship; I would not consider it stalking, no.

Lifeisabeach09 · 26/01/2020 12:17

He has changed the dynamics of your relationship and wants it on his terms.

Completely agree. It, also, sounds like he is backing off.
You pulled the rug out from under him when you did the same. Good for you.

adaline · 26/01/2020 12:20

I don't really think he's done anything wrong.

He doesn't have to tell you his whereabouts all the time - he clearly does a lot of travel and was obviously tired and wanted a night off. I imagine if he told you that, you wouldn't have been happy, so he decided to not tell you anything.

Why can't he come to London for work without seeing you?

GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 12:20

When you've been seeing and shagging someone on a regular basis for a year (and not on a fwb basis- that does not seem to be the setup here) you do owe them basic honesty and openness.

He's immature (and dishonest) to have said he'd let her know if he was in town whether he felt he wanted to meet or not, and then change his diary settings do she can't serif he is in fact in town, and not tell her he's in town - again.

GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 12:22

Hope you're ok Op.

Remember to keep this very discrete re. work, you don't want this to affect your career.

GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 12:26

Why can't he come to London for work without seeing you?

She did don't demand that he see her every time, just that he leather know if he was in town. Doesn't seem excessively unreasonable for someone you're seeing for two days every week and intimate with for a year (?)

Easy to be so pragmatic and detached when it's not your relationship and your feelings.

Stephminx · 26/01/2020 12:26

You are both being unreasonable.

He shouldnt lie to you - either outright or by omission. It’s very odd and I’d wonder why he never mentioned it if you speak so often.

However, you’ve crossed so many lines yourself. You’ve stalked him via his work computer diary (absolutely not on - if you must shag around with someone from work (already highly unprofessional) then have the decency to keep it outside of work hours. You are being paid to work, not check up on your shag/boyfriend/lover or whatever you want to call him. If I were your employer I’d be highly unimpressed), physically stalked him, gone back and stalked his work computer again, ghosted him because you’re ashamed of your actions rather than have an adult conversation... the list goes on.

The pair of you need to have an adult conversation and be prepared to walk away. I’d say the trust has gone on both sides here. You’ve both behaved very badly. If you have any sense, you’d speak to him like an adult, stop the childish games, and end it so you both know where you stand and can get on with some actual work while you’re being paid to do a job.

GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 12:27

*She didn't demand

GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 12:30

You are both being unreasonable.

Agree to some extent - op clearly feels offended/hurt if he doesn't see her every time he's in the same place .. which no doubt made him feel pressured when he just wants to sloth after work sometimes when he's in London. He probably felt a bit hassled and tracked.

But it does perhaps reflect differing levels of emotion, investment, commitment etc.

StreetwiseHercules · 26/01/2020 12:30

“ You pulled the rug out from under him when you did the same. Good for you.”

Cyber stalking, actual stalking and abusive ghosting = you go girl!

GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 12:32

A year might be when you'd expect a relationship to progress, instead he seems to be pulling it back.
No wonder op reacted the way she did if she wants it to progress (seems like it).

StreetwiseHercules · 26/01/2020 12:33

“ He doesn't have to tell you his whereabouts all the time - he clearly does a lot of travel and was obviously tired and wanted a night off. I imagine if he told you that, you wouldn't have been happy, so he decided to not tell you anything. ”

Quite.