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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is this a big red flag? Or am I a big red flag?

648 replies

aquickfiresidechat · 25/01/2020 23:19

I've been dating someone for a year. He works in the Geneva office of my company and he travels to London, and I to Geneva, once every other week, so it works out that we have seen each other for a period of days (2 or 3) each week staying at each other's flats/or hotels.

In the company we have a bulletin that goes round daily saying who is in which office within Europe. New man and I also have access to each other's calendars so some days I like to see what he is up to and imagine him going about his day and I always imagined he liked this too.

Anyway, we both went away separately for Christmas and came back early January. We were talking and chatting regularly on the phone like we always do about when we could next see each other. He then went on a business trip and was busy with meetings and time difference, so we did not get a chance to speak much.

Two weeks ago, I noticed on the company bulletin that he was due to be in London the next day. I assumed he had just forgotten to mention it being so busy and that he would make arrangements with me shortly. The next day came and he was not in the office. I double clicked on his diary and saw that he was in meetings in London but not coming into the office.

I sent him a message and said "why didn't you tell me you are in London? Can we see each other tonight?" He texted back a bit short and told me to meet him for a drink after work.

I arrived and asked him how he was. He said, "shocked." I said "why shocked?" he said "because you have been going through my diary and checking up on me." I said "but we have access to each other's diaries, I saw you were in London, and I assumed we'd see each other?" He sat there open mouthed for about 10 mins while I tried to justify why I had looked at his diary and questioned him.

When I got upset he became softer and said he wanted to make me happy and he was sorry for not telling me, but he had terrible jetlag, was completely underwater with work and not yet recovered from Christmas and just felt he needed a night to sleep. He cancelled his client dinner and we spent most of the evening talking about it. I was actually crying because I was so shocked at the sudden attitude change. He asked me to stay the night and I was still quite upset and said no, and we went our separate ways and he flew back to Geneva the next day. We agreed that we would communicate openly about when he is in London going forward.

The next morning he rang me before his flight, quite agitated and said that he had not slept a wink because he felt quite angry that I would demand he see me every time he is in London. He said it had nothing to do with seeing anyone else or not wanting the relationship, but he would be travelling to the UK more frequently and just the thought that, that would be my expectation every single time he was here felt very demanding. His justification for this was that he was most often knackered and would have evening meetings with clients or customers and therefore would not want to trek over to my flat at 11pm or midnight and then fly back to Geneva the next day. He said "you are my priority, but you cannot be my priority all the time." While I wasn't really happy with this, we agreed that he would tell me when he was in London even if he was not going to see me.

I found this new arrangement quite difficult to understand, as this was obviously not our previous pattern, so I didn't feel I was delusional or imagining the relationship was more than it was, for expecting the previous pattern to continue, even though at the time he was telling me this I was apologising rather than justifying my thought process. I felt that he reset the relationship and bamboozled me into thinking that questioning him or his behaviour was stalker-esque or obsessive.

We carried on speaking on the phone every day and texting a lot (it's always him initiating contact. He calls me about five times a day just to chat,) Three days later the company bulletin came again saying that he was in London. He had not told me this.

I double clicked on his diary only to see that he had codified it. Ie, replaced information with a letter and a number. All bookings and reservations that he usually made and I could previously see were now password protected and then diary entries had been made private. Seeing this made me feel like a stalker and made me think that he thought I was a stalker.

He carried on throughout the day communicating with me as normal. I did not ask him where he was. At around 7pm he said he was off to a client dinner and that he would sign off the the night as it would be late. I assume he thought I thought he was in Geneva.

I don't know what got into me but I felt I wanted to know for sure, so at midnight I went to the hotel he normally stays at while here, and I waited in a bar over the road where I could see the door. Lo and behold, I saw him returning to the hotel and going in late. Alone.

I texted him. "Hey can we talk?" He replied immediately. "Sorry, no. Off to bed."

I felt humiliated and embarrassed of myself and like a true stalker. The next morning I decided it was over. I felt that if I told him the reasons why (I was upset he had coded his diary and I had spied on him outside his hotel) it would give me more reasons to feel embarrassed. So I just stopped communicating with him entirely.

Two weeks went by and I ignored all calls and messages and took a week off work to go away and switched my phone off. When I came back to work, I found him in my office, beside himself. Why had I done this to him? What was my problem? Why had I not replied to him? What did I think I was doing? He had been in London looking for me etc.

I've agreed to chat to him about it all on Wednesday when I am next in Geneva. I don't trust him. I cant tell him why.

I don't know anymore whether his behaviour is the red flag or whether mine is.

What do you think??

OP posts:
billy1966 · 27/01/2020 10:55

OP,
I don't think you trust him anymore.
I think you have a niggle in your head.

I think it's over for you.

I certainly wouldn't let him know about going to the hotel, especially as he work in the same organisation.

I would just say it isn't working for you.

Head high, with dignity, and move on.

I think his emotions have shifted down a gear, however he was hoping to keep you there until he meets someone else.

💐

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 11:01

“If he loved you, no amount of travelling would be a chore if you were at the end of the journey.”

What a shocking comment, indicative of a controlling mindset.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 11:08

There could have been a reason why he wasn’t where the calendar said he would be - change of plan, illness, data error etc.

Or it could have been exactly right. Which is far more likely. Given its produced everyday and for an exact purpose

Had she just have asked him outright she would have known.

Rather than sitting in a bar for hours waiting for him.

Ffs my boss doesnt even know where I am everyday when I am travelling for work.

Fml2015 · 27/01/2020 11:11

OP knows her behaviour was wrong hence why she felt embarrassed.

I personally don't think checking the calendar is a massive issue. He knows she has access to it, he gave it to her.
However I would be annoyed if someone then used it against me. Yes her moved the parameter of the relationship.....however he can do just as OP can .
However he shouldn't be surprised when she's a tad disappointed that they hadn't planned to meet.
However OP appears to be gone OTT. Due to her being so emotional he agreed to something that he really did not want to do, or needed to do.....due the bulletin and calendar.
I agree to him coding his calendar, it really
isn't healthy to know exactly what your partner is doing every single second of every day. And before anyone says anything, yes I do know my partner is at work....couldnt tell you who he's meeting or where he's having lunch.
The OP should not have gone to the bar. You just disappointed yourself. You knew he was in London. You should have asked him.

The problem is communication. Using a work Calender for personal arrangement is a so crap in the first place. Why cant you just ask him "hey you in London this week? Are we meeting or are you busy?"
He also could have said "Hey, I'm gunna be in London. Working late though so crap would rather see you but I'm gunna be pretty knackered so will see you xy date?"

The ghosting is very immature and shitty. Very manipulative and revenge seeking. He clearly cares about you in some capacity hence why he was worried. No one in this sad day and ae turns their phone off for two weeks...even if on leave from work. So I applaud him for turning up at her office. Shows that he most likely is into her, just maybe not how she wants him to be.

This is just very bizarre I've just waffled Confused

Bottom line is your just not right for each other because you are both very bad at the good ole verbal communication.

user1479305498 · 27/01/2020 11:16

I don’t think you are a nutter OP , I would find his behaviour odd too

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 11:20

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TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 11:21

Had she just have asked him outright she would have known

Right - and if he hadn’t told the truth she would never have known. If she had brought it up again he would just play the victim, claim nagging/checking up on him yadda yadda, which would trigger another bloody discussion and probably a row.

Whereas she just wants to know, quickly and without hassle: what is the nature of the man I’m in a relationship with. Is he some weird ferrety rodent who is not open, honest and upfront about what he is doing?

She got her answer pdq: yes he is a weird ferret. So she ended it.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 11:23

No, he doesn't. He should, but he's thick as shit. That's where this entire problem has stemmed from.

Where has op said that.

She said theres a daily bulletin that goes out so office can arrange seating. He clearly knows it goes out the whole company gets it

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 11:26

She did know he was in london because of her work bulletin

Had he have lied she would known.

I mean fucks sake, she could have even called the hotel and asked to be put through to his room.

But she chose to go out at midnight and sit in a bar all night.

She knows it's weird.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 11:26

So she ended it.

No she didnt. She ghosted him

StreetwiseHercules · 27/01/2020 11:27

“ He should, but he's thick as shit.”

Such anger and hatred. Bizarre.

TatianaLarina · 27/01/2020 11:31

We’ve covered the work bulletin angle.

I don’t think there’s much to choose between ringing a hotel at midnight and going to look for yourself in terms of weirdness. It’s much of a muchness. His odd secrecy has put her in this position.

Fml2015 · 27/01/2020 11:34

There is always so much hatred for men in Mumsnet! It's scary really. The OP's behaviour is clearly ridiculous, she near as damn it says it her self. But yet he's the thick one!!!
She went and sat in a bar across the road from the hotel he stays in to see if he was in London. The bulletin told her he was in London.....he did not confirm or deny this when asked because he was given no opportunity to. She could have saved her self time, self respect and dignity by just asking are you in London? Easy peasy!!!!!

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 11:39

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Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 11:39

We’ve covered the work bulletin angle.

Ita been covered many times but people still keep insisting he doesnt know about it, so is thick and thought he would get away with OP not knowing. Depute op not saying anything like that.

I am not saying calling the hotel is normal.

But calling a hotel and sitting in the var across the street from midnight until the early hours, then texting him (not mentioning you step outside) because you want a deep and meaningful....is not the same thing

saraclara · 27/01/2020 11:41

To be honest, if I was flying into London, going straight to a meeting, then straight to a work dinner, knowing I wouldn't be done until midnight, I wouldn't be arranging to meet up either. I'd want to flop into the hotel bedroom that had been booked for me, knowing I had to get up early and fly back in the morning. There would neither be time nor headspace for me to want to do anything else.

Would anyone here not feel the same?

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 11:43

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 11:44

She hasn't. I've worked it out - from her post and from my own experience of thinking of other people in my own workplace: 'but they must know [a thing] - I've referred to it multiple times in multiple emails, as have others', and then finding out that my colleague in fact doesn't know. They've missed it. Cos they're thick.

So made it up then? OP spotted he was there on the bulketimg the first time. When he questioned why she was checking up on him, she would have mentioned she wasnt and just read it on the bulletin. So he would know. Or are you deciding that she actually hid the primary place she found this out from eas the bulletin.

I'm dealing with someone at work right now who has got themselves into a mess because they can't read posts on a forum properly This person has a masters degree! But they are also quite, quite stupid.

Exactly what has this got to do with anything?

I know people who have been sacked for acting odd letting the their relationship impact work (like him cancelling a dinner because she was so upset). Absolutely no impact on this thread nor does it provide and more detail about the ops situation. At all.

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 11:47

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Arthritica · 27/01/2020 11:48

I still don't understand why there was all this game-polaying on his second trip to London. You both get the bulletin. You both know he's in London. He's not lying, he's not disputing it or hiding it because he knows YOU get the bulletin. He's just not arranging to meet you and you aren't directly asking him, just trying to trip him up or catch him in a lie.

If you know and he knows you know (obviously) why wouldn't you say "fancy a drink after work" to which he can say "Yes, sounds great" or "No, catch you next time."

Instead you turned it into some weird melodrama of leaving your house at midnight to sit in a bar trying to spot him, then text about chatting. What would you have done if he'd said "Yes, great'? Emerged from the bar and freaked him out?

It all sounds terribly adolescent. Are you quite young, OP?

Fml2015 · 27/01/2020 11:51

@saraclara 100%
It's all very bizarre.

You could perhaps meet me at my hotel but I'm not travelling across London after a full day and evening .

Also hotel rooms can be very nice and relaxing....no responsibility, no cleaning or fussing.

LovePoppy · 27/01/2020 11:52

I don’t think there’s much to choose between ringing a hotel at midnight and going to look for yourself in terms of weirdness. It’s much of a muchness. His odd secrecy has put her in this position.

So once again he made her do it.

Why is it ok for a woman to use this line of defense, but when it’s a man, it’s always manipulative and abusive?

As another poster said, words matter.

The words I’m seeing here all justify abuse by a woman, because a man made her do it because (insert reason) he’s thick/dim/disinterested.

QuantomatoBay · 27/01/2020 11:53

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Bluntness100 · 27/01/2020 11:54

If they dodge difficult conversations because they can't be arsed and so lie by omission

I don't see how you've come to the conclusion he didn't tell her because he couldn't be arsed. From what she has said he didn't tell her because he feels she expects to see him every time and kicks off if he doesn't. So basically he was avoiding the drama, cowardly but there is is.

And to be fair to him it seems his feelings were valid, he told her on the phone he felt it unfair this was her demand, when she was crying for hours. He told her the next morning he felt the pressure and demand was not ok.

He knew she knew he was in London. She knew he was in London. He should have said it, but the message was clear. he felt she would demand to see him. He was wrong for not dealing with it and telling her, but opting to avoid the subject.

And let's be honest when she texted him to talk after midnight, as soon as he got back, when lurking outside his hotel, she was hoping to get in there with him. That must have been the plan, she was waiting to go in and spend the night with him. Why else feel humiliated when he said he couldn't talk. She'd waited there hiding, for him to come back, with the plan that she could give some reason she was local and could come and see him.

She wasn't accepting he wouldn't see her at all, so hid outside his hotel to try to get in there anyway.

Fml2015 · 27/01/2020 11:55

@QuantomatoBay
I'm guessing he does no about the bulletin. He reckon he coded his diary so she didnt know his every move and meeting. It's not normal or healthy on a relationship.

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