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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is this a big red flag? Or am I a big red flag?

648 replies

aquickfiresidechat · 25/01/2020 23:19

I've been dating someone for a year. He works in the Geneva office of my company and he travels to London, and I to Geneva, once every other week, so it works out that we have seen each other for a period of days (2 or 3) each week staying at each other's flats/or hotels.

In the company we have a bulletin that goes round daily saying who is in which office within Europe. New man and I also have access to each other's calendars so some days I like to see what he is up to and imagine him going about his day and I always imagined he liked this too.

Anyway, we both went away separately for Christmas and came back early January. We were talking and chatting regularly on the phone like we always do about when we could next see each other. He then went on a business trip and was busy with meetings and time difference, so we did not get a chance to speak much.

Two weeks ago, I noticed on the company bulletin that he was due to be in London the next day. I assumed he had just forgotten to mention it being so busy and that he would make arrangements with me shortly. The next day came and he was not in the office. I double clicked on his diary and saw that he was in meetings in London but not coming into the office.

I sent him a message and said "why didn't you tell me you are in London? Can we see each other tonight?" He texted back a bit short and told me to meet him for a drink after work.

I arrived and asked him how he was. He said, "shocked." I said "why shocked?" he said "because you have been going through my diary and checking up on me." I said "but we have access to each other's diaries, I saw you were in London, and I assumed we'd see each other?" He sat there open mouthed for about 10 mins while I tried to justify why I had looked at his diary and questioned him.

When I got upset he became softer and said he wanted to make me happy and he was sorry for not telling me, but he had terrible jetlag, was completely underwater with work and not yet recovered from Christmas and just felt he needed a night to sleep. He cancelled his client dinner and we spent most of the evening talking about it. I was actually crying because I was so shocked at the sudden attitude change. He asked me to stay the night and I was still quite upset and said no, and we went our separate ways and he flew back to Geneva the next day. We agreed that we would communicate openly about when he is in London going forward.

The next morning he rang me before his flight, quite agitated and said that he had not slept a wink because he felt quite angry that I would demand he see me every time he is in London. He said it had nothing to do with seeing anyone else or not wanting the relationship, but he would be travelling to the UK more frequently and just the thought that, that would be my expectation every single time he was here felt very demanding. His justification for this was that he was most often knackered and would have evening meetings with clients or customers and therefore would not want to trek over to my flat at 11pm or midnight and then fly back to Geneva the next day. He said "you are my priority, but you cannot be my priority all the time." While I wasn't really happy with this, we agreed that he would tell me when he was in London even if he was not going to see me.

I found this new arrangement quite difficult to understand, as this was obviously not our previous pattern, so I didn't feel I was delusional or imagining the relationship was more than it was, for expecting the previous pattern to continue, even though at the time he was telling me this I was apologising rather than justifying my thought process. I felt that he reset the relationship and bamboozled me into thinking that questioning him or his behaviour was stalker-esque or obsessive.

We carried on speaking on the phone every day and texting a lot (it's always him initiating contact. He calls me about five times a day just to chat,) Three days later the company bulletin came again saying that he was in London. He had not told me this.

I double clicked on his diary only to see that he had codified it. Ie, replaced information with a letter and a number. All bookings and reservations that he usually made and I could previously see were now password protected and then diary entries had been made private. Seeing this made me feel like a stalker and made me think that he thought I was a stalker.

He carried on throughout the day communicating with me as normal. I did not ask him where he was. At around 7pm he said he was off to a client dinner and that he would sign off the the night as it would be late. I assume he thought I thought he was in Geneva.

I don't know what got into me but I felt I wanted to know for sure, so at midnight I went to the hotel he normally stays at while here, and I waited in a bar over the road where I could see the door. Lo and behold, I saw him returning to the hotel and going in late. Alone.

I texted him. "Hey can we talk?" He replied immediately. "Sorry, no. Off to bed."

I felt humiliated and embarrassed of myself and like a true stalker. The next morning I decided it was over. I felt that if I told him the reasons why (I was upset he had coded his diary and I had spied on him outside his hotel) it would give me more reasons to feel embarrassed. So I just stopped communicating with him entirely.

Two weeks went by and I ignored all calls and messages and took a week off work to go away and switched my phone off. When I came back to work, I found him in my office, beside himself. Why had I done this to him? What was my problem? Why had I not replied to him? What did I think I was doing? He had been in London looking for me etc.

I've agreed to chat to him about it all on Wednesday when I am next in Geneva. I don't trust him. I cant tell him why.

I don't know anymore whether his behaviour is the red flag or whether mine is.

What do you think??

OP posts:
KellyHall · 26/01/2020 23:54

You've both acted very strangely. I don't think it's a very healthy relationship for either of you. Hopefully you don't have to work directly with each other.

GilbertMarkham · 26/01/2020 23:59

Because se vanished off the face of the earth, wasn't answerin calls, wasn't in work - and he wondered what the fuck was going on

If I found out my bf had been ringing me that day from the same city, without mentioning he was in the same city, while I presumed he was in his European hometown, and he knew I thought that .....
I'd be wondering wtf was going on too.

GilbertMarkham · 27/01/2020 00:01

And he did that more than once the second time after op made it clear she found it weird and it made her uncomfortable (which others in this thread would be oh so cool with, but I know I wouldn't and I doubt I'm the only other one).

aquickfiresidechat · 27/01/2020 00:19

The reason I disappeared on him was because I was faced with the choice of having to tell him I waited in the bar opposite his hotel to prove his lie, or save face and just disappear. I didn’t want any more humiliation or feelings of confusion and shame. I had already cried and had a mini breakdown at his omission and experienced his surprise and “shock” that I would go on to his outlook calendar to see where he was, the last thing I was going to do was tell him I staked out his hotel.

What were my other options? To say “it’s not working for me anymore.” Then he would ask why. Unless I’m prepared to tell him I think he’s a liar, I don’t have an answer to the “why.” And he would have hounded next for an answer like he did when I got back from holiday.

OP posts:
AskEvans · 27/01/2020 00:21

I think that given you hadn't seen him since before Christmas it was a reasonable expectation that you would meet the first possible opportunity after Christmas, even if he was tired.
However, if a man did this to me, I wouldn't be asking him why he didnt tell me he was coming to my home town, I can answer that myself - because he didn't want to.
I would just be making myself a little less available....I wouldn't ghost him as that is cruel, but I wouldn't be answering no phone to him 5 times a day!! Hmm

Catsandchardonnay · 27/01/2020 00:42

He didn’t lie to you. He just withheld the truth. (It’s a big difference.) And due to your bunny boiler behaviour I can’t really blame him. OP you have massively escalated this. He was honest with you that he doesn’t want to see you every time he’s in London because he’s knackered and stressed from work. You went all needy on him. He dealt with this the best way he could. You’re creating a problem where there didn’t really need to be one.

Opentooffers · 27/01/2020 00:53

It does sound a bit much -5 calls a day. Sounds too full on. I get that he initiated that but IME, the guys that are a bit OTT at the beginning, tend to be the the ones that change and ship out quicker. Did you not think yourself that 5 calls on a work day is a lot? Did it not make you wonder? Id find it a bit much, could not sustain that level for long. This one burned bright, but burned out. It's probably the love bombing that made you behave more emotionally and less rationally.

AndThenThereWereSeven · 27/01/2020 00:54

1. You went through his diary
2. You stalked him.
3. He called you out on your behaviour and your acting like he's the one in the wrong.

Please ignore replies like this above. You are not a stalker and he had been gaslighting you.

He possibly panicked after saying he loved you, or I wonder if he had a similar arrangement with someone else who is now expecting to see him in London.

Either way, I'd avoid the conversation in Geneva and explain you think it's over. You don't need to say about the hotel business - just that you've reflected upon his words and agreeing it was too constraining on both of you to be constantly meeting up. Flowers

AndThenThereWereSeven · 27/01/2020 00:56

I also think that by calling you five times a day he's probably doing it for his own benefit and offloading stress onto you. Be glad it's ended now - but I'd be a bit wary of him as he sounds strange.

annielouise · 27/01/2020 00:58

So what is happening now? Did you finish it?

pallisers · 27/01/2020 01:05

Nothing about this is right. Do yourself a favour and get out. You're becoming someone you don't want to be. This is very unhealthy and dysfunctional. It doesn't really matter who is at fault, it's broken.

I agree with this. He was odd not to say "I'm in London but slammed, won't be able to see you". He was a bit ott to act so offended that you read the diary he gave you access to because you were dating. You went a bit nuts by going to his hotel.

I have a lot of respect for you for recognising that this wasn't right for you and removing yourself from the relationship.

Sagradafamiliar · 27/01/2020 01:13

The 'lie by omission' came about because previously he had had to change his professional plans and deal with your crying and breaking down as you expected him to see you. The bloke wanted to go back to his hotel and sleep, before traveling again.
I'm in my home city permanently, it doesn't mean I'm always available. Why would he be available just on account of being back in town for a couple of hours?

Sadiee88 · 27/01/2020 01:26

@aquickfiresidechat
Is his job really stressful? Maybe he did just want to sleep, knew you’d be upset, so stupidly lied?

Does the relationship have a future though?

I think the only red flag is how all this made you feel. After a year, you shouldn’t be feeling this anxious/questioning things?
I think going AWOL is a tad extreme and silly....
he was worried and did the right thing checking up on you.

HannaYeah · 27/01/2020 02:12

@Scarsthelot
@Bluntness100

By your own definitely you are now stalking the OP by reading her threads then demanding explanation.

HannaYeah · 27/01/2020 02:23

@Scarsthelot
@bluntness101
And you’re not even stalking the right person!

Scarsthelot · 27/01/2020 02:27

By your own definitely you are now stalking the OP by reading her threads then demanding explanation.

Didnt Advance search. I just remembered. Jesus, we can remember stuff now? Remembering stuff is stalking but sitting in a bar across from someones hotel is normal behaviour?

OP says it wasnt her, so how would reading her other threads help?

And where did I demand an explanation?

I am sure OP is being honest and theses 2 posters in the same situation. I did pony out that possibility

HannaYeah · 27/01/2020 02:30

@Catsandchardonnay

So if you were dating someone then got engaged to them and later found out they failed to tell you they were actually already married with 7 kids, that’s not lying? Because it’s just omission; you never asked if they were married and had 7 kids, right?

It makes zero sense to say that behavior which OP exhibited after she found out he was visiting London undercover scared him into visiting London undercover. Or that something he knows nothing about which happened after he lied to her is the reason for his lying.

lorettalemon · 27/01/2020 03:16

It sounds like he started acting differently for no apparent reason, it threw you so you tried to figure out what was going on. I don't think you've acted in a stalky way - you've behaved like someone who's upset and trying to work out if they're being messed about. If any man makes you feel the need to go to lengths to act like a sleuth to work out what the relationship status is then they're no good and very likely going to cause you a lot of upset

Coyoacan · 27/01/2020 04:15

The same people who are blaming the OP for his having cancelled a meeting to deal with her distress are also criticising her for not giving him an explanation for why she doesn't want to see him anymore.

The fact is she was distressed, they talked about it, he blamed her and then proceeded to make promises that he broke almost immediately. Honestly, ghosting is horrible, but if anyone deserves it, it is this man.

CodenameVillanelle · 27/01/2020 04:27

Why couldn't you just say 'I know you were in London because the bulletin told me so and after our last conversation about this, I was upset and angry and no longer trust you'
Do you think he'd try to lie and deny being in England, at which point you'd have to admit the stalking? Perhaps you could say someone else confirmed it?

Musti · 27/01/2020 04:39

That's a massive overreaction on your part op. I'm not saying that you don't have a point but you've been together for a year and just because he's too tired to see you when he's been working all day and the fact that he went back to his hotel alone should reassure you, doesn't mean his feelings have changed. The man told you he loved you.

Even if you lived in the same city and were used to seeing each other a certain amount a week but because of work or other stuff one of you decides not to see each other for one night it doesn't mean that you have to stake each other out and finish with each other.

He shouldn't have coded his diary and you should have a conversation about it but also discuss that if either of you is tired or wants to do something else when you're in each other's city, then it's ok not to see each other the odd time. It's also ok not to know each others9ebery move but you would be more comfortable if he was honest.

MyOtherProfile · 27/01/2020 04:58

Unless I’m prepared to tell him I think he’s a liar, I don’t have an answer to the “why.”

You do. You can explain that after a year of long distance you think it's time to decide on the future, to either move things forward or call it a day. As it doesn't seem like you're both up for making it a relationship where you actually move to be together then it's time to move on. That's perfectly legitimate as a reason.

ConstanceSalinger · 27/01/2020 05:11

You don't actually owe this guy anything. He has displayed gaslighting behaviour and is probably thrilled that you're distressed over him.

A legitimate reason to dump is whatever you choose to say. He will argue against anything you say in these circumstances so be prepared with some closed reasons without having to go into it (causing yourself more distress).

MsDogLady · 27/01/2020 05:53

OP, when you speak to him, I would focus on his appalling behavior during the initial incident. It was perfectly reasonable for you to cross check his diary after first noticing his London location listed in the daily bulletin. Failing to inform you of his presence, he felt entitled to unilaterally change your relationship parameters and habitual routine without discussion. When rumbled, he manipulated you and unfairly shifted the blame to your checking the diary and questioning him (which you had every right to do).

Tell him that his behavior was entitled, unreasonable and manipulative and that you are not prepared to move forward.

Aridane · 27/01/2020 06:17

Didnt Advance search. I just remembered. Jesus, we can remember stuff now? Remembering stuff is stalking but sitting in a bar across from someones hotel is normal behaviour?

Grin