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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

is this a big red flag? Or am I a big red flag?

648 replies

aquickfiresidechat · 25/01/2020 23:19

I've been dating someone for a year. He works in the Geneva office of my company and he travels to London, and I to Geneva, once every other week, so it works out that we have seen each other for a period of days (2 or 3) each week staying at each other's flats/or hotels.

In the company we have a bulletin that goes round daily saying who is in which office within Europe. New man and I also have access to each other's calendars so some days I like to see what he is up to and imagine him going about his day and I always imagined he liked this too.

Anyway, we both went away separately for Christmas and came back early January. We were talking and chatting regularly on the phone like we always do about when we could next see each other. He then went on a business trip and was busy with meetings and time difference, so we did not get a chance to speak much.

Two weeks ago, I noticed on the company bulletin that he was due to be in London the next day. I assumed he had just forgotten to mention it being so busy and that he would make arrangements with me shortly. The next day came and he was not in the office. I double clicked on his diary and saw that he was in meetings in London but not coming into the office.

I sent him a message and said "why didn't you tell me you are in London? Can we see each other tonight?" He texted back a bit short and told me to meet him for a drink after work.

I arrived and asked him how he was. He said, "shocked." I said "why shocked?" he said "because you have been going through my diary and checking up on me." I said "but we have access to each other's diaries, I saw you were in London, and I assumed we'd see each other?" He sat there open mouthed for about 10 mins while I tried to justify why I had looked at his diary and questioned him.

When I got upset he became softer and said he wanted to make me happy and he was sorry for not telling me, but he had terrible jetlag, was completely underwater with work and not yet recovered from Christmas and just felt he needed a night to sleep. He cancelled his client dinner and we spent most of the evening talking about it. I was actually crying because I was so shocked at the sudden attitude change. He asked me to stay the night and I was still quite upset and said no, and we went our separate ways and he flew back to Geneva the next day. We agreed that we would communicate openly about when he is in London going forward.

The next morning he rang me before his flight, quite agitated and said that he had not slept a wink because he felt quite angry that I would demand he see me every time he is in London. He said it had nothing to do with seeing anyone else or not wanting the relationship, but he would be travelling to the UK more frequently and just the thought that, that would be my expectation every single time he was here felt very demanding. His justification for this was that he was most often knackered and would have evening meetings with clients or customers and therefore would not want to trek over to my flat at 11pm or midnight and then fly back to Geneva the next day. He said "you are my priority, but you cannot be my priority all the time." While I wasn't really happy with this, we agreed that he would tell me when he was in London even if he was not going to see me.

I found this new arrangement quite difficult to understand, as this was obviously not our previous pattern, so I didn't feel I was delusional or imagining the relationship was more than it was, for expecting the previous pattern to continue, even though at the time he was telling me this I was apologising rather than justifying my thought process. I felt that he reset the relationship and bamboozled me into thinking that questioning him or his behaviour was stalker-esque or obsessive.

We carried on speaking on the phone every day and texting a lot (it's always him initiating contact. He calls me about five times a day just to chat,) Three days later the company bulletin came again saying that he was in London. He had not told me this.

I double clicked on his diary only to see that he had codified it. Ie, replaced information with a letter and a number. All bookings and reservations that he usually made and I could previously see were now password protected and then diary entries had been made private. Seeing this made me feel like a stalker and made me think that he thought I was a stalker.

He carried on throughout the day communicating with me as normal. I did not ask him where he was. At around 7pm he said he was off to a client dinner and that he would sign off the the night as it would be late. I assume he thought I thought he was in Geneva.

I don't know what got into me but I felt I wanted to know for sure, so at midnight I went to the hotel he normally stays at while here, and I waited in a bar over the road where I could see the door. Lo and behold, I saw him returning to the hotel and going in late. Alone.

I texted him. "Hey can we talk?" He replied immediately. "Sorry, no. Off to bed."

I felt humiliated and embarrassed of myself and like a true stalker. The next morning I decided it was over. I felt that if I told him the reasons why (I was upset he had coded his diary and I had spied on him outside his hotel) it would give me more reasons to feel embarrassed. So I just stopped communicating with him entirely.

Two weeks went by and I ignored all calls and messages and took a week off work to go away and switched my phone off. When I came back to work, I found him in my office, beside himself. Why had I done this to him? What was my problem? Why had I not replied to him? What did I think I was doing? He had been in London looking for me etc.

I've agreed to chat to him about it all on Wednesday when I am next in Geneva. I don't trust him. I cant tell him why.

I don't know anymore whether his behaviour is the red flag or whether mine is.

What do you think??

OP posts:
P999 · 26/01/2020 14:54

So fucking what? Not at all a big deal. And she's pulled back. You lot just love bashing and putting people down. Like I said, sport. Nasty bunch. I'm off now. Not engaging with vipers

myhoodie · 26/01/2020 14:54

I can totally understand and empathise with OP. She wanted to get to the bottom of what was going on and in a likely emotional state may have done certain things out of character. Totally understandable, it's as if something takes over the mind when feeling uncertain which was caused by his behaviour. Checking out the hotel is also understandable, she did it quietly in the background thinking it might clarify something for her.

If OP can maintain a calm, professional exterior and keep some things private to herself as she mustn't risk jeopardising her career or reputation but OP knows this. Some posters seem to be deliberately critical and unhelpful imo.

nowayhose · 26/01/2020 14:55

But the checking of a work diary, for reasons which are personal and NOT work related is bloody stalking !

And if you did this type of thing in another area, e.g NHS, you'd be sacked and likely prosecuted for obtaining information which was NOT relevant or necessary for your work !

saraclara · 26/01/2020 14:58

She wanted to get to the bottom of what was going on and in a likely emotional state may have done certain things out of character. Totally understandable, it's as if something takes over the mind when feeling uncertain which was caused by his behaviour. Checking out the hotel is also understandable, she did it quietly in the background thinking it might clarify something for her.

Would you say the same if a man did that to you? Lurk outside your hotel at midnight to check up on your story?

OldEvilOwl · 26/01/2020 14:59

SweetwiseHercules this is in the OP!!

. He calls me about five times a day just to chat

saraclara · 26/01/2020 15:00

Would you say the same if a man did that to you? Lurk outside your hotel at midnight to check up on your story?

Even typing that gave me the chills. Seriously, that would creep me out SO much.

OldEvilOwl · 26/01/2020 15:00

(it's always him initiating contact. He calls me about five times a day just to chat,) missed the first bit off

adaline · 26/01/2020 15:01

He pulled OP pretty close for a year then started pushing her away with no indication of the reason. He has a right to do that but he could have handled it without hurting her by communicating.

Yeah, I agree with that, but by responding in the way she did, he just had his "fears" confirmed and now he has every right to paint her as irrational and obsessed.

Groovinpeanut · 26/01/2020 15:03

OP you're getting a rough time on here, which is a shame as you're entitled to ask for opinions and advice the same as everyone else.
With regards to your relationship issues. You have done nothing wrong in checking his diary they are available to all colleagues, you also agreed to view each others by mutual consent, so that's fine.
You asked him to be upfront and honest about his whereabouts and he agreed to be. He lied. You watching from afar to clarify his lie is not a bad thing. I think a relationship that is this hard work is best ended.
There's no future without trust. You deserve and are worth so much more. Flowers

LovePoppy · 26/01/2020 15:04

Checking out the hotel is also understandable, she did it quietly in the background thinking it might clarify something for her.

Omg

I can’t even with this.

Do I understand why she did it, yes. Do I think it’s right and sane and rational? Absolutely not. It’s A disturbing behavior followed up by using an abusive tactic of ghosting.

myhoodie · 26/01/2020 15:04

Would you say the same if a man did that to you? Lurk outside your hotel at midnight to check up on your story?

I'm not sure if there's an assumption here that I am a woman.

LovePoppy · 26/01/2020 15:06

I can’t even with the idea of because someone does something quietly and in the background that that makes it OK. How on earth are people living their lives thinking it’s OK to spy on someone as long as it’s done quietly and in the background?

myhoodie · 26/01/2020 15:11

OP didn't lurk outside his hotel at midnight, she was in a bar across the road. Of course it sounds more dramatic to phrase it that way.

CallItLoneliness · 26/01/2020 15:12

OK, so she asks him, he says no, then what? She should jut believe him even though the bulletin has never been wrong before?

Coyoacan · 26/01/2020 15:24

There a huge devaluation of the work "stalker" on this thread.

This is a gaslighting boyfriend we are talking about. Is the OP supposed to be indifferent to the fact that he has changed the rules without consulting her?

Stalking is serious crime with serious victims. Looking at your boyfriend's work schedule because it means you might see him soon is totally different. And, in view of all his secrecy about visiting London, wanting to find out if he's bringing someone else back his hotel room is pretty natural

happinessischocolate · 26/01/2020 15:28

You asked him to be upfront and honest about his whereabouts and he agreed to be. He lied. You watching from afar to clarify his lie is not a bad thing. I think a relationship that is this hard work is best ended.

I totally agree with this.

If you suspect your partner is lying there is nothing wrong with checking for yourself if possible. And OP was right the guy was lying so case proven. She hasn't gone and then to started stalking his every move. So I see no wrong in what she's done.

Having said that, when a relationship has gone down to the level that you feel you need to check your DP is not lying, then it's probably a good time to end it anyway.

Bluntness100 · 26/01/2020 15:31

She knew he was in London, she didn't need to check his diary.

The diary checking isn't the big or singular issue. When he came over and didn't tell her, she kicked off big style. He had to cancel a client meeting, she was crying, and upset for several hours.

He explained to her he couldn't see her every time, he was going to be coming more often, he has late client meetings, She was not happy about this. Clearly he knew that.

So then because he blocked his calander as he rightly suspected she was not using it to plan shared time, but rather to track his movements, she didn't even know his hotel for sure, she went and waited outside his normal one to see she could catch him coming back and see if he was alone. I very much doubt she was there for five mins.

She then texted him as soon as she saw him go in and asked to talk. I'm guessing she wanted to go in and see him. Why else would she feel humiliated, and who wants to talk after midnight.

Then because she couldn't think of an easy way to explain why she was upset, without looking like a stalker, she decided to ghost him.

If anyone thinks this is normal and understandable then they really need to seek some help. And if it was a man doing it to a woman, then I don't think any one would be trying to say it's understandable and ok.

insanepizza · 26/01/2020 15:39

Wel put @Bluntness100

chickpea1234 · 26/01/2020 15:43

The way I see this is that he told you that he is really tired sometimes when in London and doesn't want to trek to your place late at night which is fair enough - so yes he did that before but it was exhausting him and he told you this but you didn't like that and became a bit unreasonable with him. He then started hiding London trips from you which is not great but you hadn't really listened to him when he said he was tired. I think it's is a bit stuffed now and I think you should have been a bit more understanding initially. Sorry you may not want to hear that but it is my honest opinion.

HannaYeah · 26/01/2020 15:48

@Coyoacan

Re: devaluing the word stalking, I wanted to say that also.

It reminds me of a colleague whose grandchildren were yelling “Granddad, we are starving.” He had grown up in India and he quietly said, no children, you are not starving. Do not use that word to me you are ready for your next meal. Because if you saw a person who was truly starving you would never forget it.

Stalking is a real-life horrible, terrifying ordeal. Your GF checking up on you once is not stalking. Words mean things!

She invaded his privacy once by watching the door of his hotel to confirm he had lied to her.

She used his purposely, willingly shared calendar in a way that he did not expect, to see what kind of day he might be having. That’s a bit schoolgirl like, but she wasn’t doing it to see who he was meeting with and where. She just happened to notice that he was traveling to her city that week and was shocked that he had not told her, after a year of always telling her.

You can easily share your busy/free info without sharing the full calendar. They didn’t have any reason other than personal to see more detail on one another’s calendars. I don’t share my full calendar with anyone. He thus did this willingly so calling her looking at it “stalking” is way OTT.

NameChangeNugget · 26/01/2020 15:50

Your behaviour was nuts OP

adaline · 26/01/2020 15:50

OP didn't lurk outside his hotel at midnight, she was in a bar across the road. Of course it sounds more dramatic to phrase it that way.

Yeah, to spy on him and to see whether he was alone and whether he was where she thought he was.

She didn't happen to see him as she was out with her mates - she chose to go there on purpose to spy on him!

TatianaLarina · 26/01/2020 15:50

He explained to her he couldn't see her every time, he was going to be coming more often, he has late client meetings, She was not happy about this. Clearly he knew that.

No he didn’t. What he did was turn up in London without telling her he was going to be there. Which is a really odd thing to do when you’ve been in a relationship with someone for a year.

And then was surprised that she was surprised.

If he had said from the start ‘I will be coming to London more for work, but I won’t be able to see you every time as some times I will need to crash and then get straight back to Geneva in the morning.’

Fine. Then she’d know where she stood.

His claim that she would expect to see him every single time - was made when he was on the defensive of his own behaviour after she had confronted him about not telling her of his visit . That’s a massive assumption given that he clearly never asked her, and OP makes no comment if that’s valid. We can’t be sure it’s accurate.

Even if it was accurate and OP would expect to see him every time - the normal adult way of dealing with that would be to explain why that didn’t work for him not cover up the fact he was there at all!

Any way you look at it secrecy is a bizarre way of dealing with the issue.

Scarsthelot · 26/01/2020 15:53

What he did was turn up in London without telling her he was going to be there. Which is a really odd thing to do when you’ve been in a relationship with someone for a year.

Why did he have to tell her? When theres a company newsletter that tells her. Why does he need to confirm this with her if he isnt seeing her?

StreetwiseHercules · 26/01/2020 15:54

“ I'm not sure if there's an assumption here that I am a woman”

That’s not what you were asked.

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