Do you think that some people are just unloveable?

[NeverBeenLoved]

That's it really.

Do you think that some people are just simply unloveable?

As in they don't possess any of the qualities required for someone to love them? Or, if they do, it is simply not enough to outweigh their unloveableness.

OP, you sound like a wonderful person who has made a very good life for herself in most respects. Huge admiration for that.

You sound very together and self-aware.

Until you get on to the subject of your bum. And then everything you write just sound bizarre.

Although a lot of it is familiar. MY mother used to say unkind things about how I looked, and eventually I managed to figure out they were about her, not me, but by then a lot of damage had been done. I remember when I was at school walking past some random spotty youth who said, "God, you're ugly." That has stayed with me for decades and I believed it for a long time, because it chimed exactly with what I already felt.

I'm still very insecure about the way I look. But I do know that's not rational.

You need at least to get to that stage. Your therapy is nowhere near done (sorry if that sounds harsh). Because even if you've sorted a lot of your other issues, you can't even mention this to anyone. Even a therapist. It's still surrounded by the shame that perpetuates abuse. And the fact that you still want to leave it alone and try to learn to live with it shows just how much pain it's still causing you and that's exactly why it needs to be dealt with.

Also, like me and the mean schoolboy, you're clinging to things that fit in with your way of seeing yourself.

Anyone else can see that it's utterly absurd to think your relationships haven't turned out as you hoped because of your bum. Look how silly that looks written down.

You've made so much progress in other areas. You can do this. You can get to the point where your bum is just a bum. It isn't the problem. The problem is the way you feel about it.

I hope you do find the energy to work on this and to be happier- i’m routing for you! 😀

FinnsLeftSpoon

It doesn't sound harsh. I mean it does but i had no idea I still felt as bad as I do about this. I think I've just lived with these beliefs for so long they've just become a part of me and who I am.

I know I couldn't talk about it with anyone - it kind of sticks in my throat and makes me feel quite violently hostile internally to even think about it. I still have self harm fantasies around it (just not as frequently as when I were younger). If I don't address it it just makes me sad. But i can cope with the sadness more easily than i can deal with the anger and self loathing.

I think it's become quite apparent that I'm not going to he ready for, or able to have, a relationship any time soon.

I can't even tell if it is my disordered thinking or whether you'd agree with me if you could see me. Because just as I'm thinking that "it's my beliefs", in my head, I'm reminded that other people have made, and still make, comments. So it's not just in my head.

I just feel such a huge sadness.

Going back to the unloveable thing, I know that, when I have met men in the past, I've had no expectation that they will love me. I find it quite fascinating on here to read threads where the poster will say, "I know he loves me", when it's quite clear he really doesn't.

I wonder where that self belief and self assuredness comes from? To even believe that it's possible or accept that someone could or might

OP, yes it's THE obstacle to you making progress, thefact you can't even mention your 'main issue' to a therapist.

Maybe it would help if you consider that so many women hate a part of their figure or face, you'd be surprised! Lots of teenage girls get teased about something - short legs, big nose, flat chest, you nane it. Many aer very insecure or even go for plastic surgery when they can. But so many do live with it, and uit's not because all their lovers praise them, some do and some criticise.

But people aer normally ok to open up in therapy and maybe it would hwelp yo uto think that therapists (especially female ones) have heard it ALL when it comes to body shape flaws or even body dismorphya, and a large bum is one of the COMMON insecurity issues.

I know your mother has done a number on you - it should be criminal to be so psychologically abusive to a child! But could yo utry and detach, and sort of observe your sesssion with therapist as if from above, pretend you are waatching another woman confessing about it and going through treatment - would it seem so bad if you imagine another person with your shape confesing to hating it and being stuck by the comments?

It's not just physical flaws that bother people either, plenty think they have unloveable personalities - in your case it's not that, and I can tell it's harder to ignore your own personality as you can't disguise or change that at all when in an LTR.

I'd also advise not to give on dating at 50 - older men aer often wiser and more tolerant and I know you aer worried about being fetishised by any who like your big hips, but I think if anyone wants to meet you (online for example) why not go and see - it's often that men flirt or show their attarction by complimenting you on something specific, but it's usually not the whole man - you may find it develops into him liking your personality which does take a while longer in any case. Don't immediately dismiss anyone who starts their attention with the physical.
Going back to therapists, try someonewho specialises in body dismorphya, even if it's not exactly what yo uhave, they d be so used to hearing the same concerns that you may feel more relaxed and also they may be more useful to you with focus on the physical.

sorry for typos and some missing words!

*give up on dating

CatAndHisKit

Thanks. I have imagined how I'd react if I heard someone else making the same complaint about themselves. I'm not sure what I'd think tbh.

My mother also used to say that I'm the sort of woman men 'settle' for when they realise they can't have the sort of woman they want and not the sort they 'choose' or 'want'.

So i read your comment about older men having lower expectations and that's not what I want either. I dont want someone who's given up on their dreams.

I'm just tired of it all now. Im fine when I'm at work but, when I'm alone, all the thoughts just resurface. Even when I'm not actively thinking about it, i still feel the pain of it.

I'm so sorry that your mother has hurt you so much.

I am not a betting woman, but I would 100% put money on my belief that your bum is perfectly normal, just big (and people definitely do view big bums favourably!) and definitely NOT the cause of your issues.

Your mother has just conditioned you into shame and inadequacy about it.

I fully understand that you absolutely don't want to be fetishised for the shape of your butt. However, I wonder because you are so painfully sensitive to it even being noticed, if sometimes when men in the past have said something about your bum specifically, trying to convey their enthusiasm, not only for that feature but also for the whole of you - that maybe you immediately assumed it to be objectifying you?

I think your mother left you unable to believe that this body part could ever be viewed as just a normal variation of a woman's body shape. Let alone attractive to potential partners.

So i read your comment about older men having lower expectations and that's not what I want either. I dont want someone who's given up on their dreams.

Honestly, I didn't read the post from @CatAndHisKit like that at all.

'Older and wiser and more tolerant' I took to mean more emotionally mature, have learned a thing or two about human relationships, have worked out that they want authentic human connection.

Nothing about lowering standards, at all.

Well if you’re mum said that then I’m not surprised it’s difficult for you.
Honestly trust me when I say you’re not unlovable. I promise you with all of my heart.
It’s just not possible.
How you go forward from here is a different thing. But you need to move forward somehow. You deserve it.

I think what she said about being the sort of woman men settle for is one of the things that has stuck with me the most tbh.

Its something I've been constantly aware of and I know I've rejected men i thought were 'too good' for me in the past before it's even got started and pushed men away if I feel they haven't been interested enough because that's my starting point. I guess it's become self fulfilling prophecy over the years.

I think I've reached a point where I think I'm ok but only in the absence of anyone else.

When I'm single I'm (usually) confident and self assured, I feel attractive, sexy and I'm comfortable flirting but all of that changes when I'm in a relationship and I dont know how to stop it because I don't enter into any kind of relationship unless I feel they like me but then it rapidly goes downhill.

I find it difficult to express how I feel or talk about emotional stuff because I expect them to be thinking that they're not all that into me in the first place.

Hey there.
I'm so sad reading this thread. Your mum was so wrong and hurtful to say those things to you.
Can you look at replacing the thoughts? Ever done positive affirmations? I'm a massive fan.

I've got Louise Hay affirmation cards dotted around the house but they just read like hollow words sometimes. I try and change them regularly!

I remember being a young teen and wondering to my friend how anyone would ever love me if my own mum didn't. It became almost a mantra I guess. I repeated it a lot to myself growing up - partly through sadness; partly so that I could try akd prove her wrong and partly so that I wouldnt forget and get 'ideas above my station'. I guess it's the last one that stuck the most.

I did try and prove her wrong for many years but never managed it because I was choosing al the wrong sorts of men who were not in positions to love anyone themselves, I guess. But now I'm past all that (I'm talking dating homeless men and drug addicts) and it doesn't seem to have changed at all. At least I didnt expect it from them.

I would actually put money on you being more attractive than your mother and that she was not just jealous, but riven with envy. Google what "envy" actually means and entails and you'll see how incredibly toxic it is.

She tore you down to deal with the fact that her daughter had advantages she didn't. She is the deficient one, not you.

I want to throw this out to you as a concept to think about and see how it feels - there are a large amount of men who cool off to women after seeing them naked because "the hunt" is over. The Hollywood cliche is that men fall utterly in love at the sight of a naked woman, but it's simply not true.

Its not necessarily because of how you look naked, but because thats how they'd act with ANY woman they have now seen naked.

I am also a woman who men don't love, and I suspect its because I've always had to be bulletproof due to bullying and being a plain, bookish, fat girl.

When I asked my friend, she paused and said "well, you wouldn't be happy with just anyone", and I think theres a lot of truth there. I expect a lot, I don't put up with bullshit or unfairness, I expect people to keep their promises and do their part, and it sounds like you are the same kind of person.

We are not a target for men who are looking for an easy ride or a quiet obedient housemaid, we see our own value - we give a lot but we expect a lot. You'll probably say you don't, but you ended a relationship that wasn't what you needed - that's seeing your own value.

.. how anyone would ever love me if my own mum didn't. It became almost a mantra I guess. I repeated it a lot to myself growing up

I'm not particularly into affirmations but if anyone qualifies, you do.

You repeated over and over to yourself that no one could love you. You could do with repeating the opposite, over and over. Over and over!

Tailor an affirmation/s that encapsulates the opposite of what your mother drummed into you. Say it to yourself in the mirror, looking in your eyes.

Whether you feel it at the time or not is immaterial, just do it. I tell you, this stuff does it. It's like taking medicine (3 times a day...). Something to do with the hypothalamus. Or something. (who cares, as long as it works - and it does ime).

I assure you I'm not the type to do this stuff ordinarily!

PicsInRed definitely not more attractive than her. Part of her issue is that I think she expected a daughter made in her image (yes, I know what that sounds like...) and I think she was acutely aware (and embarrased) that I wasn't pretty like her and she felt it reflected on her personally. But I do think there is something in what you say. I qualified in the field she'd have liked to work in but she didn't pursue it.

She is also very risk averse where as I'm a bit more "fuck it! What's the worse that can happen?" She worries all the time about what other people will think of her (inc complete strangers) and about what can go wrong whereas I don't care (generally) about what people think (i.e. I don't care if people don't like my clothes or think I'm too old for x, y, z) and I don't worry about what might go wrong as long as I have fun on the way. Kind of thing. Which is know isn't how I'm coing across on this thread but it's who I am outside of this particular issue.

StormTreader it's a nice idea but every man I've ever dated? How come other people I know don't have this issue? All the women I know are with men who adore them.

I do think you and I sound quite similar though. I've got a very low tolerance for bullshit, dishonesty and broken promises. And what your friend said of you would also be true of me.

springydaff I do have Louise Hay affirmation cards dotted around the house that I read regularly. They sound a bit hollow though tbh. Maybe coming up with my own more realistic ones would be better. I'll give it a go. It makes sense that I could feel better about myself at least. thanks.

EMDR would be really helpful to you.
Your comment about speaking loudly so the song wouldnt be heard is really indicative of a trauma response such is the described level of panic.

Look. You are incredibly insightful

So use that insight to your own good.

FACT- no one is unlovable

FACT- everyone is lovable.

The rest is your own issues. Why do you think people who are happy in themselves find love so easily? Do you think it’s in their DNA

GET THERAPY NOW

I also have to add. That this no bullshit approach can sometimes just be taken too far. All of a sudden you’ve written everyone off. Because that’s so easy. And proves your point.

I'm actually shocked at how emotionally abusive your mother was towards you. This is trauma.

Tbh, gypsy there's so much more but I think it would start to sound a little unbelievable I guess I've really got no idea who I would have been or what I would have been like had things been different with my parents but with my mum in particular.