Do you think that some people are just unloveable?

[NeverBeenLoved]

That's it really.

Do you think that some people are just simply unloveable?

As in they don't possess any of the qualities required for someone to love them? Or, if they do, it is simply not enough to outweigh their unloveableness.

That's one way to look at it. The other way is to accept that you have a responsibility regarding whether you choose to keep receiving that gift. It's in nobody's hands but yours, now. When I realised this for myself, I was initially terrified. But then massively empowered.
That's an even bigger gift, and you can give it to yourself.

Yes, you're right. Thank you.

@NeverBeenLoved how are you doing? Have you spoken to any of your friends IRL or made any changes? x

So many good posts on here. Particularly @user3575796673 a few posts in, but also what @Eckhart says here- whether you choose to keep receiving that gift.

My childhood was extremely abusive. As a teenager and young adult I had severe depression, alcoholism, and PTSD, for which I was treated with ADs and therapy.

One day I realised the classic "It's not me, it's them".

It changed everything, because my perspective switched.

My life isn't perfect, but how I feel about it has changed, and how I feel about myself has changed. I am not unloveable, and neither are you.
You sound amazing and interesting, intelligent and really together. Please allow yourself to be amazed and love yourself

I feel this is me! Like I'm not special enough - I'm 'nice' but don't feel I'm anything out of the ordinary to stand out

Thank you for asking, Thinkingaboutsummer2020

I've spent a lot of time this week thinking about it all - is it something I'm doing or could be doing differently.

I was thinking about the last man I dated - the first after my last lot of therapy ended. He was a friend of friends; he treated me impeccably - he was kind, respectful and considerate. Our free time was limited and he prioritised seeing me whilst still seeing his friends and maintaining his own life. I did the same. He introduced me to his friends and included me in his life appropriate to the time we'd been together. He suggested an evening out that we both knew he wouldn't particularly enjoy so that he could meet some of my friends and see where I liked to go and what I liked to do. He cooked for me, he was polite when I cooked for him - even if I could tell he didn't really like it. He was well liked by mutual friends who were really pleased we'd got together and thought we were well suited. And yet... he wasn't affectionate towards me - didn't kiss me first; hold my hand; look at me 'affectionately' after a the first few weeks. Yet he bought me tickets to the ballet and had begun to make definite plans with me for 'next month'. But, in spite of all that, he didn't really appear to be interested in me: he didnt ever compliment me; or ask questions about me that allowed for deep, emotionally connecting conversation; or hold me. So, after 4 months, I ended it on the basis that he just wasnt that into me. Obviously, it was too soon for him to have loved me, but the foundations for it weren't even being laid. It just wasn't moving forward emotionally.

He's the only man since I was about 20 who hasn't commented negatively on my appearance in some way but I think it was still an issue - he liked my personality, he enjoyed spending time with me but he just didn't 'fancy' me. Not once he'd seen me naked. Because, although we continued to spend time together, that was when it changed.

I have spoken to a couple of my friends about it. One admitted that she and a couple of other friends had discussed it once. Apparently, none of them could understand why this was my experience. They'd listed the qualities I mentioned previously in the thread. And, apparently, I have a rather endearing 'girlish' quality about me - not 'childish', more that I am youthful, happy and smiley - I'm not worn down by life. I try to find the positive in situations and i come across as 'optimistic' but not unrealistically so. More that my attitude is that "tomorrow is a brand new day" kind of thing. I guess I'm just quite pragmatic about things. They also said that I was 'sexy' in an understated way - i don't try to be, but it's in the way i hold and carry myself. I come across as self assured and confident, even though they know I don't always feel it - i am aware that this is the case when I'm single. I'm a good listener and I make time for people whilst maintaining my boundaries. I practise good emotional and physical 'self care' and I have removed all 'toxic people' from my life. Oh and apparently I do flirt. Not outrageously but i do give off signals if I like someone.

Honestly, they made me sound like a brilliant girlfriend! And I felt quite overwhelmed by some of the lovely things that she said.

But it only really reinforced that my physical 'deficits' are the issue. Because personality wise and character wise, I'm fine. She and I have known each other for about 8 years and she said that I've changed immeasurably in that time for the better.

Which is kind of what I thought anyway.

I suppose I just believed the idea that, once I truly saw myself positively etc things would naturally improve elsewhere.

And I'm aware that, at my age, my options are going to be fewer and men arent going to find me attractive in the way they might find a younger woman attractive but this isn't about being single - that, I'm fine with. More that I find it hard that, in my whole adult life, I've never had a romantic relationship in which I've been loved. It's just that, being single, means it isnt going to happen either.

Sorry that was long! Just all my thoughts.

My life isn't perfect, but how I feel about it has changed, and how I feel about myself has changed

I would agree with this wholeheartedly.

But, in spite of all that, he didn't really appear to be interested in me: he didnt ever compliment me; or ask questions about me that allowed for deep, emotionally connecting conversation; or hold me. So, after 4 months, I ended it on the basis that he just wasnt that into me.

Did you do any reading about attachment styles? This sounds more like his issue than yours. That he was quite avoidant. You interpret that as him not being that into you. That may well not be his view.
www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-freedom-change/201504/fear-intimacy-and-closeness-in-relationships

That doesnt mean it was wrong to end it. You recognised he couldn't give you what you need. But it's like nyoman said - it's not you, its them

QuentinWinters hi, yes, I'm familiar with attachment styles and had wondered that about him but, equally, it can't always be 'them' and only 'them'.

I just found him very confusing tbh. The way he treated me etc suggested that he liked me a lot but the way he responded to me suggested he wasn't interested in the slightest.

It was a shame really, I really liked him but I found his emotional distance blocked my ability to get closer to him. I'd never have fallen in love with him either because of it, although i could see, in many ways, how we could have been happy in the long term.

But it was hard. I'm quite tactile and would hold his face when I kissed him or I'd often sit on the sofa watching a film with him whilst stroking his leg but there'd be nothing reciprocal from him. He'd put his arm round me but it would just 'hang' there.

Even hugs felt a bit awkward and never 'intimate'.

I think he liked it when I was affectionate with him but didn't ever reciprocate.

I did wonder for a while afterwards if it would have improved if I'd given it a bit longer but it was damaging my confidence and self esteem too much to give it that chance.

It sounds like your friend loves you! 😀

Also sounds like it was that guy was not the one for you! However you directly linking him seeing you naked and loosing interest is not accurate.

You sound like you socialise with lots of people - the right one is out there for you, I’m confident of that! x

I guess she does!

However you directly linking him seeing you naked and loosing interest is not accurate.

How can you be sure?

OP, I would presume that you are attracted to avoidants and this is why you end up in relationships with distant, seemingly "uninterested" men. This attraction is likely due to your upbringing i.e. it's what you are used to and you unconsciously seek to replicate it as it's familiar to and comfortable for you - although it obviously doesn't give you the connection you want. I would work on unpicking that.

It's not all about how you are, what you will find is that the older you are when you meet people, the more hangups people have in general. More time for negative experiences, this is often the case as it's why people are single still ( not saying every time, but the number of single people who behave as one would expect in situations, gets less the older you are). Much as you've had to address, issues so have others ( but men can be bad at asking for help). So it could be them, not you.

If you’ve got a normal healthy body ie not covered in scabs and abscesses that is clean then anyone who fancies you with clothes on will fancy you the same or more when they are privileged enough to see you naked 😀

I haven’t RTWT. But no, I don’t believe that at all. I think sometimes people develop incorrect perceptions about themselves because of how they’ve been treated in the past. You are loveable OP, I promise

OP, I have read your responses carefully... Something is a bit off in them, something in that 'yes but' reaction of yours that pps have mentioned. Also in that violent inner reaction you experienced when someone overtly paid you a compliment (about your bum) which is actually exactly the same thing.

I think you may have some difficulty somewhere in the area of body dysmorphia. I can see you have been in various therapies over the years, but has anyone ever actually addressed this rejection aspect of your relationships? Have you honestly told the truth to your therapists about your belief that your bum is what causes your relationships to fail?

Haffiana no. I've never told anyone or even said it out loud. I'm too ashamed and I'm not sure how I'd ever get past it if someone agreed with me.

I have had well meaning friends reassure me (unprompted) that some men will find it attractive, which suggests they feel it's an impediment too.

I wouldn't be able to talk about it with anyone. The thought fills me with horror tbh!

Thinkingaboutsummer2020 I understand why you're saying that but that's not really been my experience. Only one man visibly recoiled but men don't seen to find me sexually desirable once they've seen me naked.

Opentooffers That makes sense. I guess it's just frustrating that it's just another layer of obstacle then.

,PicsInRed* Maybe there's something in that. I do find overly demonstrative men or those who are very open a bit overwhelming. Although, I dont know they are going to he like that when I first meet them.

NeverBeenLoved Can you consider that as a result of your really appalling and terribly sad childhood that you have a not uncommon psychological disorder which makes your perceptions of how people regard you skewed and not based on reality? And that this is why you imagine that you are somehow deformed and unloveable as a direct result of that deformity...

For example:

I have had well meaning friends reassure me (unprompted) that some men will find it attractive, which suggests they feel it's an impediment too.

You see, it doesn't suggest this at all. That is a bias in your perception - you have taken positive comments and turned them into their opposite. I would suggest this is the pattern that has marred your life because it is the pattern that comes through your posts here.

This can be helped, OP. It really, really can be helped. A really good psychotherapist can help with this, but only if you are willing to put in the hard work of facing this. You have to want it enough to overcome your fear.

Have you done any inner child work op?

Curiously, I did a little bit today on a retreat. I had a big experience quite a few years ago on a therapy retreat where I, finally, accepted the child I had routinely rejected.

My family rejected me and, as an adult, I rejected me. It took a good half hour/hour - my resistance was enormous - but eventually I was able to accept her. Yay!

She's gorgeous BTW.

It may sound woo but fuck it, those of us who have been damaged by our primary caregivers need all the help we can get. Plus it makes perfect sense, actually.

I've heard of it, springydaff but never tried it.

Tbh, I'm not really in a place for more therapy at the moment - I'm just emotionally, mentally and financially drained. I'm beginning to wonder whether, at my age, it's even worth continuing with the therapy or whether I should try and just focus on accepting how I feel and accepting the way things are.

I've reread Haffiana's post a few times. I think part of the issue is that I have changed/impoved/understand myslf better but the messages I'm getting from other people are the same and what I physically look like is something I can't change.

I suppose it just became such a focus of my life because I was told I'd never have it.

From being quite young, I was given all the reasons no one would love me and where other people aspire to careers, houses, cars, holidays etc, it's all I've ever wanted. Just to feel loved and secure.

Haffiana the problem is that it's also been commented on negatively by other people. My best friend when I was in my early 20s 'jokingly' told me I looked like I'd been constructed out of reject parts because of it. Other boyfriends have commented negatively and I'm just too worried/ashamed to put myself in that position again as much as anything i think. It makes me feel inadequate and embarrassed for anyone I have been out with.

I've done the inner child stuff in groups, op. Not one to one. The group are supportive and loving to one another.

I found that with acres of therapy I still wasnt healed - I understood perfectly why I was damaged but the healing didn't come until I worked with others, saw myself in others ' loving and caring eyes.

Ah that makes sense. I'm in a support group for people who have experienced similar and, I have to be honest, that, and having talked to a couple of friends has been more effective than any therapy ever has been. I find the 1-2-1 relationship with a therapist quite overwhelming.

There is a strong focus on empathy and seeing ourselves through each other's eyes and, yes, I have found and continue to find that hugely supportive. I suppose I've never really considered it to be 'therapy, but it is really.

It's through them that I have been able to truly see my positive qualities. Before them, I'd have struggle to find anything I liked/valued about myself.

I think I've realised through this thread that my main issue is how I feel about myself physically. There is some residual fear that the other stuff isn't 'enough' to outweigh the physical but the physical is the main thing. Added to that the fact I'm not getting any younger...

I really feel like I need to just make peace with this being how it is rather than anything else if I'm honest.

I would say that love isn’t based on the physical, yes you need some level of attraction but the love comes from everything else.

It sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy that if someone sees you naked they won’t want to be with you.

It does sound like you have body dysmorphia and you need to work on loving your body for what it is.