Do you think that some people are just unloveable?

[NeverBeenLoved]

That's it really.

Do you think that some people are just simply unloveable?

As in they don't possess any of the qualities required for someone to love them? Or, if they do, it is simply not enough to outweigh their unloveableness.

You're not unlovable. I'd be willing to wager that you have (understandably) barriers up out of fear that anyone to get as close as your parents would hurt you just as badly.

Ok OP I have read your updates and I want to say how amazing you sound! You sound assertive and intelligent and like you have integrity by the bucket load, you sound creative and individual and independent and the kind of woman I love to have as a friend.
Also love the sound of your dress sense.
I don’t think your intelligence is helping in this area though - like you I could argue convincingly until the cows come home that there is overwhelming evidence that I am unlovable, that I am the one consistency in every relationship I break. But I am also starting to see patterns in those relationships that start to explain that. And like I said some wonderful people I admire also feel this way. So I try not to use my intelligence to perpetuate that nasty voice. With the greatest of respect I feel like it could help you to keep trying therapy. I don’t think you are done if you still feel this bad. Some improvement is great but we all deserve to be completely free from this weight in our chests.

Hi OP, this is an interesting thread - I think it's revealing about what we all mean by 'love' and I have to agree with RantyAnty that it also raises issues about our (sadly still) rather misogynistic society.

You sound amazing - independent, funny, clever, articulate, dynamic, up for a challenge but also hard reflection.

My back story is different from yours but we are now in a very similar place and same age. I was the 'pretty one' in my family, got chatted up a lot (which I didn't like actually) etc. No problems thinking I was unloveable! Since my marriage ended a few years ago it's so interesting how that has all changed - not just the chatting up (!) but my own understanding of what we mean by love, and how different men and women seem to be (generally) in this regard. I really don't think looks come into it, particularly in middle age. I look better now than 20 years ago (really...god knows how that happened) - it's an eyeopener that I've barely been 'chatted up' in 5 years (by the way - I have done some chatting up myself!) let alone had a date. I am fiercely independent, successful in my job, very busy, lots of friends etc - I'm fine on my own and not bothered about another relationship. ... I think men "at a certain age" , generalising here, don't really find women like us attractive in a partner (rather than a friend) - yet those same qualities in men would be attractive to women. I also think I'm unloveable, but not bothered about that right now as I'm enjoying being on my own. If that changes in the future I'm sure I'll get the same feelings of sadness.
so....

• You sounds amazing, please don't change
• I don't think it's got anything to do with your looks/bum
• you are doing all the right things talking about this stuff
• good luck and good on you

x

Who told you that you were blossoming? That person sounds like they love you. Do you have friends or siblings? Have you told them how you feel? I bet someone already loves you and would tell you.
Just because you feel unloveable, doesnt mean you are unloveable. You need to consciously look for evidence it's not true.

Ok I’m going to play devil’s advocate here.

I have some of the same feelings of being unlovable, and I’ve come to realise that (in my case at least) it’s a form of inverted narcissism:

“I’m special and different because the normal rules don’t apply to me. I’m exceptional because,
unlike everyone else, I’m unlovable.”

Entertaining the idea that you might not be exceptional - that you might actually be run-of-the-mill lovable just like everyone else - is confronting. It threatens your narcissistic defences (which we all have to varying degrees).

I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but it could be worthwhile thinking about.

It also sounds like you’ve made being unlovable into somewhat of an identity, without which you might not know know who you really are anymore. And that’s scary stuff.

Which is why I begin to question whether it is actually something about me that makes me unloveable

Yes.. being cruel to be kind here - your belief that you are unlovable

Change your belief, and it will have a big impact on your life.

Honestly, I've been where you are so I feel I have the relevant experience to comment. It is difficult to do this on your own though, for me it took therapy. .

Thinkingaboutsummer2020 my friends say I'm lovely. No one has ever been able to tell me what my unloveable qualities they are. But then I don't have many close friends who know me that well. I'm seeing one tonight but I don't really want to burden him with it.

PicsInRed quite possibly. It's been suggested before that I might have put barriers up in the past but I don't 'feel' them any more.

Hauskat my relationships don't last more than a few months so it's hard to see patterns. But the men have all been very different to each other.

ideasinindigo I don't disagree with that but my experiences went any different when I was younger. When people are falling in love al the time. I didnt have it then either.

QuentinWinters an older man from one of my hobbies told me. He was instrumental in encouraging me to step outside of my comfort zone and take on more challenges with it. I've thank ed him for the difference it made to me.

NoMoreCricketDartsOrFootball I've thought that myself tbh but what I find frustrating is that I don't want to feel like this. On the rare occasions I do meet someone, I go into it positively and with hope but their lack of interest soon becomes apparent.

I do agree that it's become part of my 'identity'; part of who I am. I'd have to become a completely different person to accept it could be different. And that is hard. But I also feel the need to protect myself against it. When I have met men, I've always got the 'deadline' in mind; the longest ove been in a relationship and, when that time approaches, I think there is a possibility that I mentally detach. But, by then, thebcracks are already showing. Its more about me protecting myself from being hurt than anything.

CloudsCanLookLikeSheep yes, you're right. My 'belief'. But when I've tried to change it - on my own or through counselling, the end point has been the same.

I'm at a loss now tbh.

@Neverbeenloved I had Cognitive Analytic Therapy which really shifted that deep belief. If you can afford therapy it may be worth a try? It is usually time limited to 16 sessions so it's not like it will go on and on forever, and is very solution focused.

My parents told me I didn't possess any of the qualities necessary for someone to love me.

A. You don't "possess qualities" that make your parents love you; your parents if normal just love you.

They are not normal.

Parents lover their offspring in spite of many bad qualities .. Inc them being the worst of the worst criminals. While that's not ideal - it dies go to show how off your parents behaviour is.

B. The fact that they actually told you that to your face - regardless of however they feel - also goes to show there'd something wrong with them. You don't say things like that to your kids, noone decent would.

Forget about your stupid, weird, damaged parents ... They're idiots (and v possibly bastards).

No one has ever been able to tell me what my unloveable qualities they are.

Cause you probably didn't have any - you just have weird, intolerant, selfish, shitty parents.

I can relate op. All my life i've had people tell me they love me whilst treating me in a way that would suggest the exact opposite. It's a complete headfuck meaning that love is now associated with:

Betrayal.
Dislike.
Anger.
Violence.
Humiliation.
Control.

I've seen a lot of counsellors but non who liked me enough to want to address and work through these issues with me long enough for it to have any effect. I guess their reaction to me is typical of how people react to me.

Everything your parents said has wormed its way into your head and become a self fulfilling prophecy. There is nothing wrong with you, but I wonder if you are able to recognise when someone is interested in you, as in your mind you are convinced no one will ever love you, so no one really stands a chance with you. Just a thought.

It’s interesting that you feel that talking to your friend about how you feel would burden them, that certainly would not be the case with a good friend, you might find that showing that bit of vulnerability will take that friendship to the next level.

I guess their reaction to me is typical of how people react to me.

@RuffleCrow I think this is the basis of psychodynamic therapy, the relationship you form with the therapist will be how you form relationships in general (with your usual patterns that you are working on) but you can reflect on this and work with the therapist on this. So if they are a good therapist they will bring this into the open as an area to work on.

I agree, please go back to therapy as you can come through this. It seems like you have reached a certain point in therapy but you haven't quite gone deep enough yet. Go back and clearly state that you want to address this, that you are willing to stay in therapy for as long as it takes (if you can afford it). Might sound odd, but if you have an initial feeling of rejection from your therapist but you think you can voice this to them, that might be the therapist for you to work with. Anyone who triggers these feelings in you may be exactly who you need.

Sorry i haven't replied, I've been really busy with work and have spent time mulling over what people have written.

@Softleftpowerstance

I've never really experienced that positivity. I do have a male friend who told me once that he 'loved my bum' - never seen it other than clothed mind! I smiled at him and said thank you but inside I had such a violently hostile reaction to him saying it that it hurt. And I felt really sick. I think that if someone I was dating had ever said anything positive about it, I'd have dumped them! I certainly know that I would do now. Or just avoid ever being in a position where they could see it. No one else has ever complimented it. I just tend to think it's something so ugly that most people try to avoid mentioning it. And I like to pretend to myself that no one has noticed so if they said something I wouldn't be able to do that.

I've had female friends mention it (unprovoked) with reassurances when we've been discussing ourselves like that which indicates they don't think it's a positive quality either. I never mention it.

I was at the pub with some friends (m&f) once. I was feeling really good about myself that night - I'd lost some weight, I thought I looked really nice in my dress. When I got back from the bar, everyone was laughing and awkwardly stopped. I asked them why. No one would say. Later, one of my male friends took me to one side and gently told me they'd been laughing about the fact that, "for someone so small", I had a "huge arse". I was upset about it but hugely appreciative that he'd at least had the decency to tell me.

That was about 5 years ago. I'm no longer friends with any of them. And I never wore that dress again. But that is my experience.

All men want to fuck - you have them wanting that early on, you just make them wait until you're ready (which helps sort the wheat from the chaff).

Sorry, I wasn't clear. These are married men who approach me wanting to fuck. I've often wondered if it's because they see I'm always single/unattractive and assume I'm also desperate. Not men who are actually interested in a relationship. So, obviously, not an option. Single men rarely, if ever, show any interest. Both of which just compound the beliefs that I have.

As for more therapy... it's difficult to fit it in now that I have a new job. I simply don't have the time and am too tired after work - can barely keep my eyes open tired.

And it has changed how I see myself. How I feel about myself and how I manage my feelings around this. But it, obviously, can't change how other people see me, how they think/feel about me and what I look like.

OP, something that has helped me in the past is to mentally give my younger self a mental hug and say it wasn’t me, it was them and I was treated unfairly. I was, and my older self can see it now.

Just a suggestion in case it helps you. 💐

My sister has a HUGE arse for her size and was and is always the “pretty” one when we go out. She is married and loved and has been the object of desire for many men. I don’t think guys are looking for a perfect hourglass figure. Most of the ones I meet are pretty happy with my mum bod. I have stretch marks, bingo wings, a big lipoma on the back of one of my thighs, a squishy tummy and normally hair that needs a cut/dye.

As for your personality. I have Aspergers. I say what I think (can’t really help it), don’t take no shit from anyone, at quite often socially out of time with other people. It makes me inherently a bit odd but it doesn’t make me unlovable.

You are lovable. You may never have been loved, maybe you never will be loved but it’s not because your small feet make it impossible for someone to love you!

These are married men who approach me wanting to fuck. I've often wondered if it's because they see I'm always single/unattractive and assume I'm also desperate. Not men who are actually interested in a relationship

A certain type of married man will.ckne into anyone looking for some side action - and by anyone, I mean anyone including conventionally attractive women. Its nothing to.do with you.

They re predators. Who see all single women (and some not single if they think they're flirty, "up for it' or unhappy in their marriage) as potential shags

Thanks, Hope.

I've tried doing that but I find it hard.

What I'm finding the most difficult is that I feel like I've spent my entire adult life trying to undo the damage they did; trying to reprogramme my thinking; telling myself that I'm not unloveable and that it was them; telling myself that they were cruel for saying the things that they did; telling myself that those were their inadequacies and not the true me.

And yet, here I am, reflecting on my adulthood and 30+ years of therapies and what I'm faced with is the realisation that they might actually have been right. It might not have been kind of them. But my experiences with what other people think of me and how they see me, almost entirely reflect what my parents thought.

Many many women have experienced this - I know I have; from the minute I was out in the working world.

GilbertMarkham

Oh, I'm well aware of that! But that's my point. The only men who show interest are these men. That I'm older and single just makes me appear an easy target for these men.

It frustrates me because some of them have been friends before it happened.

The only point I was trying to make really is that the only men who have shown any interest are the predatory married ones.

And the sad thing is, some of them are very adept at it. I've never fallen for it! But I can see why women do. I'd imagine it's very easy for some women to feel flattered that a man is willing to risk losing his wife, family, lifestyle etc because he has fallen so hopelessly in love with you...

I guess that's the one win in all this - I've never fallen for that!

and what I'm faced with is the realisation that they might actually have been right.

Finding a good relationship with someone who loves and is committed to you )and vice versa) is not easy! Just read these boards. And outside if that, you're presuming everyone is a relationship is loved and it's all rosy ... People settle, people's feelings change, people get together and stag together for children. Many relationships are what MN would consider abusive. Lots of lovely people don't meet a partner where it's "right" on both sides and remain single,it's settle a d then divorce and then spend years single or date casually - with partners who may not have no string feelings for them.

Your parents are weird (and abusive) - and wrong.

Your relationship history is separate, many people feel they haven't got a successful relationship history (whether they've been in a marriage/ltr or not) ... Though I do think your parents behaviour has affected your perceptions whether you tried to let it or not.

Your relationship

Sorry, not the only ones. That's a bit simplistic.

But. as I said previously, the single ones aren't interested 'enough' so that even when I have dated, it's their lack of interest that has ended it. And I've known that, in some cases, it's not because of a lack of compatibility, it's because they didn't imagine themselves with someone who looked like me and just couldn't get past that.