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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it ok for a lover to ask repeatedly for sex acts he knows you don't want?

335 replies

Interestedwoman · 20/01/2020 00:38

I'm not going into grizzly details in this original post as I'm on Relationships rather than Sex board, but will give more detail in the thread if people request it.

My lover/FWB says there's nothing wrong with him asking for what he wants, even though I've told him I'm not into X, Y and Z.

I did do these things early on (a lot of people are wilder at the start of something I think) but gradually decided they weren't for me- or there are some things I've never liked, which I've made clear from the start.

I have bipolar and was in a ridiculously horny phase when we started seeing each other. I also have more insecurities about my body at the moment as I put on a bit of weight.

Another thing he's said is that most women enjoy X, (which he loves and I don't really like) and says maybe I should have therapy so I can enjoy it, as I could be missing out.

Interested in your opinions :)

OP posts:
Notcoolmum · 21/01/2020 07:45

I think this is one of the scariest posts I've read in a long time. OP you have been exploited by a very manipulative man to the extent you have been in hospital and you continue to view him as a friend. And as hot. His behaviour is chilling.

A therapist suggesting you have therapy to encourage you to sleep with other men for his gratification. Wtaf?!

FineWordsForAPorcupine · 21/01/2020 07:56

I don't think he meant it deliberately like this, but it was like I hadn't done what he wanted, so he wouldn't do what I wanted

What part of that wasn't "deliberate"? It 100% was, and all the things you felt - unsatisfied, confused, rejected, etc - were exactly what he wanted to feel. He is trying to pressure you into doing what he wants with the unspoken bargain "if you do what I want, I'll be pleased with you, and start being nice to you again. But if you don't, then I'm going to be mean and cold".

Honestly, the more you post about this guy, the more the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Sounds like right from the very start he was deceptive - the "doing some research" lie - and was at his most happy with you when you were unwell, vulnerable, acting impulsively and not your usual self.

category12 · 21/01/2020 08:24

Op, if you had a mate with bipolar, who ends up going on shopping sprees, would you soften them up with tales of your interest in retail therapy, encourage them into the most expensive boutiques and get them to spend as much as possible on you? And when it's over, go on about how much you want to go shopping again, and why don't they enjoy buying you louboutins any more, and how you could just go another pair right now, and how they're so much better when they're buying you louboutins? You wouldn't be much of a mate, would you? You'd be a bit of a cunt.

Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 08:58

Hi, thanks for all your replies. Going out in a bit- will reply more later. x

'A therapist suggesting you have therapy to encourage you to sleep with other men for his gratification. Wtaf?!'

@Notcoolmum his 'maybe you could get therapy to enjoy it' comment was about receiving oral sex. That's why he could say that a lot of women enjoy it. It'd be hard to say that about the cinema/group sex with strangers thing.

OP posts:
Notcoolmum · 21/01/2020 09:00

That's marginally better OP. But this man sends shivers down my spines. He is bad news. And it saddens me you consider him a valued friend.

Branleuse · 21/01/2020 09:29

OP, This is not even someone you live with. Its barely even a boyfriend. Its someone you fuck who you initally got involved with seeking the sort of fun that hes now apparently missing a lot. Hes being entirely clear with you that this is really all he wants. If youre not into it anymore then thats absolutely fine. What do you want from him now? I dont think hes interested that much in the sort of things you want and you are not interested in the things hes into, despite fancying him.
Youre not bound to this guy.

You have the right to go off something. He has the right to still be into it. He sounds just as fucked up as you are. Maybe thats why you used to have such a good time with sex, but I dont think youre ever going to get the sort of relationship or sex you now want with this one.

SirChing · 21/01/2020 10:03

OP it doesn't matter if the therapy comment was about the cinema, oral sex, or Morris dancing wearing flippers - the principle of why it's such a dreadful comment remains the same.

What would you advise one of us in your position to do? And I hope your course was interesting.

OutFoxxedByABadger · 21/01/2020 10:33

I know he can be a wrong'un - he landed me in hospital once due to his rejection.

This. Is. Abuse.

I do really like him though- you know how it is- we see it all the time on these boards.

The threads where people ate behind abused and everybody on the outside can see it and the OP is making excuses for the abuser, yes.

Flowers
Notcoolmum · 21/01/2020 12:25

OP originally you said you hadn't discussed this relationship with your therapist as you had more pressing matters than a mismatch of sexual preferences to discuss. Being in hospital as a result of his behaviour - physical abuse, causing you to attempt suicide, significantly impacting on your mental health? Either of those seems more than worthy of discussing with your therapist.

ScreamingLadySutch · 21/01/2020 12:44

No. You are not a series of warm living fuck holes available for his benefit, you are a PERSON.

He needs to purchase an animated robot.

They don't have feelings or needs he has to think about, and they don't feel pain or discomfort.

The problem in your last post is 'I like to think' - when his ACTIONS show the polar opposite.

Withdraw the sex altogether, and see how long he stays a good friend who is interested in enhancing you.

Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 15:39

Everyone's replies are awesome- thanks.

@category12 That's a great analogy.

@Branleuse Your post is very sensible. I do still want him as a friend, and for the stuff we do sexually, though we've always said that's secondary to the friendship.

@SirChing Thanks for asking about the course. I was very anxious, but am sure I'll settle in in a couple of weeks.

'OP originally you said you hadn't discussed this relationship with your therapist as you had more pressing matters than a mismatch of sexual preferences to discuss. Being in hospital as a result of his behaviour - physical abuse, causing you to attempt suicide, significantly impacting on your mental health? Either of those seems more than worthy of discussing with your therapist.'

@Notcoolmum I don't think I quite said that. I maybe said I don't feel the need to focus what I'm doing in therapy on trying to like oral sex, as he suggested. :) I went over the stuff that happened in Autumn 2018 with the psychologist yesterday. I spent the best part of several months with a therapist talking over it at the time.

We're going to be doing EMDR, so we're currently going through my life looking for the most painful memories, which we'll then target. It'll be hard to pick out which ones are the worst over the last few years (not all/most down to him for the first year or so-- some other events I experienced too- financial and problems with consultants etc.) Over the last year I've gradually got back on my feet, though.

'Also, can you explain this comment you made OP?

I find him hot.smile I know he can be a wrong'un - he landed me in hospital once due to his rejection.

What do you mean? What happened?'

@Tfgjiknfr It's a long story but basically I took an overdose after he rejected me both as a lover and mostly as a friend. He was dealing with family stuff for a time, and didn't feel he had the time/energy for me and some others, only for some of his friends that he prioritized (we weren't at that level of friendship then.) He really rubbed it in how he was choosing some friends over me- he was obviously relieved to not have to deal with me. Part of this was due to my own behaviour- I was ill, had recently been raped by an acquaintance, and was hard work. I was absolutely gutted at this rejection, as I blamed myself. Another reason they admitted me was they saw me as at risk of sexual exploitation. I went in willingly, and was in for just 3 weeks.

Met up with him today- one of the first things he asked was whether I'd be prepared to go to the adult cinema today for £40 (I think we've discussed this, mainly as a joke/lighthearted sometimes, so it's not as bad as it sounds.- I said no.

Spoke to him later and summarised what you 'guys' have said. He said partly that it was that I hadn't been clear, and for instance if he asked if I wanted to do Z, I'd sometimes say 'not at the minute' or something. I apologised or something, and made it clear that I don't want to do X or Y.

He tried to blame a health condition he has for him forgetting what I've said- but that mainly effects him only on certain days when he has treatment, and his memory etc is fine on the other days.

Then later on he got into this annoying habit he has- he asks me questions about sexual activities and what I would be prepared to do and not do. It puts me on the spot and I feel very uncomfortable. I suppose I have to tell him I'm not happy with it- I know it seems wrong that I don't want to talk about likes/things I'm willing to do etc. Maybe it's just me. Or something in the way he does it. :/ I don't like to tell him that I don't want to do something, as I don't like him to be disappointed with me.

So:-
Do you mind it when you do N?' (I said I didn't mind, which was maybe a lie lol, the real answer was it was ok once when he was clean) Grin.

Will you ever be willing to do Q?'

'So you don't want us to both R?'

'How do you feel about T? And how would you feel if someone was watching us, would you want to stop them?'

Is it me, or would this make some of you feel uncomfortable? I know it's generally said that lovers should talk about their likes or dislikes. IDK, maybe it's because the things are so far beyond what I would want to do. It's how he does it- sort of puts me on the spot. And he must know I find it hard to say no to him.

I also found him bringing sex into normal conversation. For instance I'm bi and sometimes like to go along to LGBT stuff- honestly more to be around like minded people and make friends, rather than to pull. He always tries to sexualise what I'm doing at these meets. So I said that I might go along to an LGBT film club's showing of a film tonight. He said 'oh that's good, you might pull' or something like that.

I also said I might go over and see my ex (bestie.) He said 'Do you ever feel like shagging 'Fred'?' 'Would you give him J?' Or something like that.

I might have to tell him to ease off with all that lol.

OP posts:
Chocmallows · 21/01/2020 15:48

OP if you write a list of pros and cons for this guy your pros would take a minute and the cons don't seem to stop coming.

You can honestly find new friends and relationships and dont have to face constant abuse and anxiety.

PatriciaHolm · 21/01/2020 16:06

I can't believe you have read the thread and can still type your last post and can't see that EVERYTHING he said screams RUN. It's like everything everyone's already said to you has been erased.

You need to never talk or see this man again. But you don't seem capable of even thinking that that might be necessary.

Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 16:09

@PatriciaHolm But shouldn't I be happy to discuss my likes and dislikes? I shouldn't have a problem with it, should I? :/ Maybe it's that he seems to really want the things, so it seems a bit pushy.

OP posts:
PatriciaHolm · 21/01/2020 16:11

A bit pushy?!!!

For heavens sake. Nothing about him is normal. These are not the way conversations go in healthy relationships.

Branleuse · 21/01/2020 16:12

i think hes really unaware of natural fluctuations in what women like and dont like. I think this is a more difficult concept for men for whom most sex is relatively consequence/risk free if they are the penetrator or watcher. For instance, I might like anal on occasion, but certainly not every time and so many things lose their magic if someone goes on and on about you doing it.
I think so many men dont actually realise that their sexual preferences and fetishes get really fucking boring if they pile the pressure on about it.
Have you thought much about what YOU would like to do if sex was all about your enjoyment and not about pleasing someone else and being what they needed

BumbleBeee69 · 21/01/2020 16:12

Confused Confused Confused

Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 17:11

'Have you thought much about what YOU would like to do if sex was all about your enjoyment and not about pleasing someone else and being what they needed'

@Branleuse Good question. I am a bit of a sub and get at the very least psychological gratification from pleasing a man- this does have its limits though and I am a feminist.:)

I do like PIV, but other than that I think I'm quite lesbian. And of course, lesbians can still have penetrative sex. I briefly had a proper girlfriend last Spring, and the sex was really good.

But for a long time I've felt that ship has mostly sailed for me. I have had some lesbian encounters, but have very little experience, and don't have much confidence, whereas I feel like I know what I'm doing with men. I'm 43 now, but have felt that I'm out of the loop of lesbianism since I was about 24. I just hadn't had the same amount of experience as I'd had with men, and found it hard to get involved in the scene (this is a bit easier nowadays as there's so much stuff on- but I need to make more of an effort.) Some of the social barriers are probably due to my mental health, not being neurotypical etc, so I'm not that good at socialising and have had a lot of experiences of rejection which've made me more anxious, given me low self-esteem etc.

The girlfriend I had was very forgiving of my not being very experienced, and taught me what she liked etc. So there is hope. :) Unfortunately I wasn't that physically attracted to her. But I'm sure there'll be other 'girls'. :)

OP posts:
Branleuse · 21/01/2020 17:23

OP, its really interesting to read what you're saying as a lot of it really resonates with me in all sorts of ways

Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 17:27

Ooh, feel free to share here or send me a PM. xxx

OP posts:
Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 17:42

'What would you advise one of us in your position to do? '

@SirChing Sorry,I just spotted this bit. Bit knackered today.

Well obviously I'm probably a bit biased towards being generous with him.

So probably my answer to the person would be to stop seeing this creep! He sounds like a creep, doesn't he? Such as in my post earlier about all the questions etc.

However since it's him/me we're ttalking about, (I can hardly even play the objectivity game with this Smile ) I'd be more inclined to tell the person that they should pull the bloke up on all he's dodgy behaviours, and leave if he continues. But there's probably a lot to pull him up on, isn't there? Grin

OP posts:
SirChing · 21/01/2020 17:43

Hi OP.

I think anyone would feel badgered by being asked all those questions all the time. It sounds like it's the fact that the questions don't arise naturally from conversation that makes it weird.

I am going to be really blunt here because my instinct is to want go protect you. Ok - this guy is at best exploiting the fact that you want to be friends to get you to do anything he wants. At worst - well, if he is fully conscious that he is doing that, he is a sexual predator.

Please remember that people who are really bad for us in lots of ways, can seem to be great in other ways. People don't walk around with a sign saying "I am bad news".

I am glad your course went well. Your nerves will ease as you get used to it.

Re your FWB - sometimes it helps to make a list of all the good and bad ways people make us feel. And go with the majority. He just doesn't sound very friendly or as if you are getting many benefits. Which is a but crap really.

GiveHerHellFromUs · 21/01/2020 17:57

But @Interestedwoman you did pull him up on it. Numerous times. And he didn't stop.

Notcoolmum · 21/01/2020 18:08

You have been raped. And he persuaded you to have sex with strangers for his enjoyment. Knowing you weren't in a place to make good decisions. The man is a monster. How can you consider him a friend?

ChristmassySpice · 21/01/2020 19:02

This is really disturbing.

And if you don't recognise that fact OP, then you really need to step away. As you surely must realise you are not in a good place and are being manipulated. But then, your replies to peoples well thought out and concerned replies just seem to make you more adamant that he's hot and you still want him as a friend. If you don't recognise he is a very dangerous and damaging individual... despite all that's been said, then I don't suppose anything anyone days here will help you leave this abusive and toxic situation.