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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is it ok for a lover to ask repeatedly for sex acts he knows you don't want?

335 replies

Interestedwoman · 20/01/2020 00:38

I'm not going into grizzly details in this original post as I'm on Relationships rather than Sex board, but will give more detail in the thread if people request it.

My lover/FWB says there's nothing wrong with him asking for what he wants, even though I've told him I'm not into X, Y and Z.

I did do these things early on (a lot of people are wilder at the start of something I think) but gradually decided they weren't for me- or there are some things I've never liked, which I've made clear from the start.

I have bipolar and was in a ridiculously horny phase when we started seeing each other. I also have more insecurities about my body at the moment as I put on a bit of weight.

Another thing he's said is that most women enjoy X, (which he loves and I don't really like) and says maybe I should have therapy so I can enjoy it, as I could be missing out.

Interested in your opinions :)

OP posts:
eminencegrise · 20/01/2020 17:57

He's not a friend, much less a FWB. He's a freak taking advantage of a vulnerable person. I had my share of doozies back in the day, but man, even when I was a straight up addict I'd have seen through this one. He doesn't even get you off? What's to see? You can get your freak on with any number of people with a few clicks but you're fixed on this weirdo? I don't think anything anyone says will convince you he's a wrong'un so I wish you the best. You're going to need it.

Zofloramummy · 20/01/2020 18:47

I’ve read the thread and although I’m rather vanilla I have done stuff in the past that I cringe now if I think about it. At the time I was not mentally stable, not eating, drinking far too much and high as a kite (not through drug taking just mental euphoria although in reality I was very depressed).

I like this to the pp analogy about curry. She is right, everyone should try new things but if they don’t suit you shouldn’t be pressured into doing it again because other people like it. Followed by your post about him not actually satisfying you and I think you’re better off without him and his needs and expectations.

A good fwb comes and goes Grin. Leaving you equally satisfied, they shouldn’t pester and cause you so much angst or make you doubt yourself in anyway. This feels like he is overstepping the boundaries and trying to coerce you into doing things which would be detrimental to your well being. Personally I would (no matter how much I fancied him) dump and look elsewhere for my needs to be met by someone who respected my red lines and was just happy with the time I chose to spend with them.

SirChing · 20/01/2020 19:50

And come again about the adult cinema - so you HAD sex with random ugly strangers or watched a film about it? It sounds like that “eyes wide shut” film!

And? Whether it is or isn't like that, as long as both parties are freely consenting, then she can shag whoever she likes wherever it is legal.

YOU may not want to do the same things, but the good news is, you don't have to - hurrah! In the same way that OP doesn't like oral but lots of women do. Each to their own.

My only concern about the situation is OP being exploited in her hypomanic state, by an attractive yet abusive manipulator, and obviously hoping that OP looks after her sexual health.

Oh, and also the fact that OP can so obviously do so much better than this tool!

Please tell me that you aren't thinking of becoming a counsellor

How mean! Why would you think that someone who has been exploited during an episode of poor MH couldn't learn to be a good counsellor?

Do you think that only people who have life absolutely "sorted" work in that area? You would probably pass out if you knew the truth about lots of people working in a MH capacity - clue: why do you think they are attracted to the job? Hmm There is nothing to say that OP wouldn't train to be a bloody good counsellor. She has empathy and insight - which is far more than the person who made that comment had.

OP - I hope you realise very soon that no matter how hot he is, he isn't worthy of licking your boots (whether he would like that or not Grin).

DareDevil223 · 20/01/2020 20:18

How mean! Why would you think that someone who has been exploited during an episode of poor MH couldn't learn to be a good counsellor?

I have concerns that someone who is STILL being exploited, doesn't seem to realise, continually rationalises it and appears to have issues with boundaries might perhaps not be the best person to counsel others. That is very different from thinking that only people who have their lives absolutely sorted (never met anyone in that category) should work in mental health. Don't attribute words and thoughts to me that I didn't express.

SetTheScene · 20/01/2020 20:20

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NeckPainChairSearch · 20/01/2020 20:37

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SirChing · 20/01/2020 20:43

have concerns that someone who is STILL being exploited, doesn't seem to realise, continually rationalises it and appears to have issues with boundaries might perhaps not be the best person to counsel others

And that's why people train. OP said she is starting a course - so she then WILL learn those things.

HollowTalk · 20/01/2020 20:48

This man really shouldn't be a therapist.

BumbleBeee69 · 20/01/2020 20:51

I'm getting the impression the OP is enjoying this and I'm now of the opinion this isn't real and someone just getting their weird rocks off.

I'm also out, advice has fallen entirely on deaf ears anyway and responses littered with smileys and lols. Whole thread is sus.

I agree it's strange.... Confused

FlaskMaster · 20/01/2020 21:50

He's continuing to ask you to do things he wants, knowing that you don't like them, because he sees this "fwb" set up as an opportunity for him to get off. You are there as the person who provides the sex for him to enjoy. You are not, in his mind, an equal and the goal is not mutual satisfaction. He's in it for himself with no interest in how much you enjoy it. In fact, as evidenced in your last encounter, he actively ensured you didn't come as a punishment for not pleasing him enough.
I don't know if it was ever fun and mutual, but it certainly isn't now. It's gone rotten. For your self-esteem, I'd put a stop to this one-sided "friendship" asap.

SpamChaudFroid · 20/01/2020 23:46

In the kindest way possible OP, I hope you meant you're off to a counselling session with your therapist, not learning to be a counsellor yourself?

katewhinesalot · 20/01/2020 23:55

'There's a word for a man who tries to coerce you into sex and it's not therapist.

Actually it is. You just need a space between the e and the r

The rapist

Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 00:07

'(What sort of therapist is he?! I'm hoping for some sort of practitioner of woo not a MH specialist.)'

@category12 @Tfgjiknfr He's a Gestalt therapist, so a bit woo-y for me but a lot of people rate it relatively highly. He's highly qualified.

@Namethecat good for you! Just do what you wanna, that's what it's all about.

@ShatnersWig I'm not as hardline as you, as I like him and fancy him and think there should be hope if I just tell him what I'm not happy with (that's what he's always asking me to do--though I shouldn't have to spell it out that I don't want to be asked to do things I've made it clear I don't want to do) but I'm not offended or anything. xx

'Please tell me that you aren't thinking of becoming a counsellor.'

@DareDevil223 A lot of people who've originally been in therapy later go on to become therapists. Being human or having had mental health problems and years of therapy wouldn't make someone intrinsically a poor therapist- in fact, therapists are encouraged to have therapy as part of their training.

That''s an aside though- no, I'm not planning to become a therapist. I just thought it might be good for my interpersonal skills etc, and I want to do some volunteering with a charity- but is there some reason for you having a go at me? Or are you just bored?

@RuffleCrow You're right, I do now have my own schemes and plans. They'll be top priority. I just happen to fancy the guy.

@AnyFucker I wrote it out and it's a long story it seems. :) I needed to get out of the house, so I googled what was local on that particular night locally, and it was a Role Playing Games club! I never imagined doing it and did eventually stop it. I didn't directly say hi to him in the flesh at first, he popped up on FB chat after I'd been on the groups FB group. He said he was 'looking for a woman to help him do some research into those with alternative life styles, adult cinemas, fetish etc' or something etc yeah right rolls eyes I rolled my eyes at first lol but I started chatting to him a year or so later when I was going through a rough time and needed people to chat to. I ended up gaming on his table and gradually getting closer to him. I asked him fairly recently and he claims he gave 2 women there the 'need someone to help with research' line. The other didn't reply at all. I didn't agree to the 'research' idea or anything, he just got me into the stuff years later when I was hyper (I propositioned him to an extent, but not with going along to clubs etc, just in general.)

@BaolFan good points. I like him a little too much I suppose, and I find it hard to keep friends, (I have ADHD with autistic features) so don't like to annoy people by doing/saying things they don't want-I do that involuntarily anyway.:)

'You can get your freak on with any number of people with a few clicks but you're fixed on this weirdo? I don't think anything anyone says will convince you he's a wrong'un so I wish you the best. You're going to need it.'

@eminencegrise I find him hot.:) I know he can be a wrong'un - he landed me in hospital once due to his rejection. I do really like him though- you know how it is- we see it all the time on these boards. :) Hadn't really thought of my life in the context of all the other women we see on here posting about their pet wrong'un. I usually chip in advising them to LTB etc. I suppose that's easy when it isn't us, but we're all to an extent human. I am doing things like the Freedom Programme and stuff, due to having read about it on here, and my own interest.

@Zofloramummy(great name btw- fellow Zoflora fan :) ) Good advice. I don't really need a man for their own sake. I just have a thing for this particular guy unfortunately.

@DareDevil223 I have reported your initial post. As I've said, I don't want to be a counsellor, but even if I did, becoming a counsellor is a long process, with plenty of opportunity for therapy etc. Many therapists have issues- they are more aware of it than the average person. Someone else might have these issues and not realise. Therapists are very much human, and often constantly discussing their own issues, in therapy or whatever suitable contexts.

Your comment did come across as you think people who have or have had mental health problems or have issues (aka are human) shouldn't work in mental health. It was vindictive and insulting. If I were to decide to be a therapist now, I would have several years before I became a professional therapist, during which time I would continue to choose to work on my issues, as I do now. A lot of people don't work on their issues, or aren't even aware of them. My seeking treatment for mental health problems isn't a weakness that should disqualify me- at least not as I am receiving appropriate treatment. Have you never shagged a wrong'un? Whoopy for you.

'I'm also out, advice has fallen entirely on deaf ears anyway and responses littered with smileys and lols. '

@SetTheScene I'm listening and taking it all on board. Being amused (especially at my own mistakes) is just my personality/coping mechanism. It doesn't mean I'm not listening to people's advice.

@FlaskMaster good point. I bought a flask for going to my course and broke it on day 1 btw! I need to get one that isn't glass lined.

OP posts:
Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 00:12

@SpamChaudFroid I'm not going to become one overnight :) I'm going to carry on in therapy etc and have already chosen and paid for more help with my mental health than most people will ever have. Everyone has their weaknesses. It doesn't effect someone's ability to be a therapist- as long as they don't spill their guts to clients. In fact, working on yourself is very much a good thing as a therapist. But no, I'm not gonna, for my own reasons lol

@katewhinesalot Yep, I did love that person's post lol.

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 21/01/2020 00:18

I'm still in.

Op, recently I was in a very extreme sexual phase (no doubt not to others but it certainly was for me). During this I met the most manipulative man I've ever encountered. It was truly frightening. I only met him once but he was in my head for weeks due to online chats beforehand, briefly afterwards and the after effects.

As an adult, finding yourself doing stuff you never in a million years thought you would because someone asks you to messes with your head. In your case you thought perhaps you would be going to Killing Kittens and in fact you found yourself fucking repellent strangers in public. I'm guessing it was different from how you thought it would be? I found myself doing degrading sexual acts in a public toilet - a really filthy one. With a stranger. Nice, eh?

I'm another who thinks that this man's idea of being a therapist is likely to be quite damaging. I'm wondering if you have taken all the information about this to your own therapist? I havent yet said out loud to my therapist what I did with that man - that charming, attractive, intelligent and manipulative man. But I'm going to. I need to hear myself say it out loud. It's surprisingly positive. There is sex-positive and there is damaging manipulation, and I know which your gentleman caller sounds like.

Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 00:37

@PermanentTemporary Thanks for your post. I'm so sorry you had some disturbing experiences. :(

I spoke to the psychologist today, and she agreed with you 'guys' that this was exploitative,

IDK what I was expecting/thinking with the adult cinema thing- I wasn't well with my bipolar and was ok with it at the time at first. Think it was kind of 'showing off' to the guy to an extent, unfortunately, and trying to impress him with my 'liberatedness.'

I have had a previous partner who was heavily into BDSM, and I found myself going overboard to please him- that was pretty bad/annoying.

I know it's easy to say, but try not to feel bad about what you did. We all work from complex motives, especially women, as we're trained to please from birth, amongst other social motives.

I can imagine what I think you mean- that 'sex positive' should include the right/encouragement to set limits on what we enjoy or feel comfortable doing.

Hugs xxx

OP posts:
PermanentTemporary · 21/01/2020 00:40

Exactly. Yes mine was a dom. I think its very possible for BDSM not to be abusive but God it's a good place to find abusers.

Sounds like you will become a good counsellor x

Interestedwoman · 21/01/2020 00:42

P.S. @PermanentTemporary Have sent you a PM. x

OP posts:
GrumpyHoonMain · 21/01/2020 00:46

Depends what the sex act is. Anal or oral I can understand but if you are denying yourself an orgasm then you may need therapy

SirChing · 21/01/2020 03:04

I think its very possible for BDSM not to be abusive but God it's a good place to find abusers

This! I have only known three who aren't.

mathanxiety · 21/01/2020 05:52

@Interestedwoman

Your post of Mon 20-Jan-20 13:07:44 Shock Shock Shock

That is all abuse, and 100% manipulation.

You are involved with a very dangerous man.

Try to figure out via your own therapist what is drawing you to this relationship.

Talk to your ex partner about the bi FWB.

Pannalash · 21/01/2020 05:56

He’s a ‘therapist’ bloody hell Hmm

category12 · 21/01/2020 06:19

Huh, I don't even know what gestalt therapy is, but I'll look it up. Personal responsibility comes up in the first line about it - what about his not to be an exploitative turd?

You know "but I like him" ain't gonna fly here. He's bad for you. We have to give up stuff that does us harm.

Tfgjiknfr · 21/01/2020 06:59

OP
Do you agree that what he has done is very, very wrong? I find it so sad that despite this you still find him attractive. It's revolting. Can't you see that your acceptance of his abusive behaviour must be giving him the green light that it's OK. He will carry on behaving like this with other women. He has shown he targets vulnerable women already.

Also, it's disgusting that he is a therapist. and I'm not at all surprised that it's Gestalt.

Tfgjiknfr · 21/01/2020 07:02

Also, can you explain this comment you made OP?

I find him hot.:) I know he can be a wrong'un - he landed me in hospital once due to his rejection.

What do you mean? What happened?

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