Dating thread 181 - into 2020 with finesse and strong boundaries!

[Menora]

The Rules:

1. The first rule about the dating thread is don't talk about it with people you're dating.
2. Develop a thick skin.
3. Do not invest emotionally too soon.
4. It's all BS until it actually happens.
5. Trust your gut instinct.
6. People vanishing, lying & being generally weird is not your fault.
7. Know your worth.
8. If it's not fun, stop.
9. Loo update is mandatory.

10. No dating the thread. 11. Treat others as you'd like to be treated 12. Any relationship you have that could get ruined by having a conversation about your feelings, standards and/or expectations wasn't really stable enough to begin with 13. The things you choose to ignore/ tolerate now are the reasons you will break up in the future

Link to Info on Dating Websites & Apps www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3514717-List-of-Dating-Site-Info-Dating-Thread

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Optional: Please give your irons (potential dates you are talking to) nicknames like Mr Scottish. Initials are allowed (Mr S) when you are an item.

I think AverageGuy is saying that if you are not able to tell someone to stop assaulting you and get away then seating yourself away from grabby hands is the only other option.

Well unless you kick him where it hurts.

No women should not have to keep themselves safe from being assaulted but in this day and age we know women do.

@SueDoeName I think you need to reply to Mr Octopus and tell him that his behaviour was not acceptable and you dont date men who assault women.

He may think his behaviour is acceptable

We are conditioned to be nice and not upset people. Whilst men grope is and kiss is and we are figuring out a nice way to ask them to stop. Or wondering what we did to encourage it.

Grope and kiss us. Obviously.
My first date this time round was a man who somehow wangled me to go dancing when I really wanted to go home. Filmed me on the dance floor. Tried to stop me leaving when my kids rang me to come home. Then tried to kiss me. And asked me for another date the next day. I hope I wouldn't stand for that now.

@Peanutbuttermouth what?! You were choked?! That is appalling. All of this is appalling. We of course should not be altering our behaviour. This is ridiculous. Consent really isn't difficult to understand.

That idiot I posted about the other day mentioned choking and didn't seem to understand when I said that porn is responsible for people thinking this stuff is mainstream and that porn is responsible for women feeling pressured into this stuff.

"No women should not have to keep themselves safe from being assaulted but in this day and age we know women do."

A shame, but a fact. I teach self defence, (including some simple techniques for dealing with guys that get handsy) and one of the first tenants is to try not put yourself in danger in the first place.

So now he has given me a set of keys, does this mean it's gone beyond "dating" ?

Wtf, maybe men should understand they aren't entitled to get 'handsy', rather than women having to learn techniques to deal with their 'handsy' behaviour  Or be told not to put themselves in danger in the first place. And what is 'putting ourselves in danger'? Sitting next to someone on a date?

Totally agree @LeaveBeforeTheLightsComeOn going on dates with strangers is a risky business. We already tell someone where we are going. Meet in public places. Check out our exit strategy. Now we have to sit opposite our dates because they don't know how to control themselves?

@Notcoolmum I just can't believe advice was being dished out to sit opposite out of arms reach in order to avoid grabby hands, are we back in 1975?

“ usually manage to restrain myself to perhaps a light touch on the arm. but unless I felt there was real chemistry, I wouldn't do anything more.“

“ensure you sit opposite them (out of armsreach!)”

“don’t put yourself in danger”

So not only do you only manage to ‘restrain’ yourself some of the time, you don’t ask if you can touch their arm or do more, you also think it’s the other persons job to sit far enough away so you don’t touch them.

It’s really simple, unless you have permission you never touch someone else’s body, permission isn’t ‘chemistry’ it’s asking them. If people going on a date aren’t safe sitting in touching distance of that person, that person is a pervert and the one to change their behaviour, not their innocent date.

People not putting themselves in danger, wtaf. You have also identified yourself as sometimes being the danger.

Suggesting victims change their behaviour is victim blaming.

OK, I've stirred up a hornets nest - apologies.

Men are absolutely not "entitled" to get handsy. Neither are women.

I'm not "telling" anyone what to do.

If, when going from A to B, you have the choice of an unlit alleyway and well lit streets, it's up to you which you choose. Personally, I'd choose the well lit streets.

Interesting discussion. I always try and sit opposite on a first date. Because I'm not a tactile person and I wouldn't like it if my date decided to touch me. Even if it was just a light touch on the arm.
But also because I'd rather face my date than have to turn sideways to talk.

Self defence teaches you to be aware of your surroundings. But that doesn't mean altering your behaviour because someone might have a problem keeping their hands to themselves. It means knowing how to assertively tell them to stop. And the vital spots to hit if they don't

@SimonJT spot on. I have to say I've never been asked but for example my first date with welsh guy- he started off sitting opposite me. Then when he came back from the bar I gestured first him to sit next to me, which he gladly did. Then we got more and more flirty, he leaned in close and mentioned something about kissing me, and then we kissed. And got very handsy right there in the pub. We were both very consenting but it's very interesting what you posted and I agree with you.

@AverageGuy of course most people will choose the well lit path. It's not the same thing at all. Whilst you should be safe choosing either path it seems the sensible option to choose the well lit one. Choosing to sit opposite someone so they can't touch you is not the same thing.

I should have said we both were very handsy with eachother- not just him on me. Both wanted to and both enjoyed it. Very inappropriate in a public place but that's another topic 😂

Funny that men feel entitled to touch women's bodies and then charge women for self defence classes to protect them 😂

Personally I think men who see the problem as it is need to show the way to their fellow men, given that these men don't listen to women. Maybe teach some appropriate behaviour and consent classes!

All, ok, I surrender.

Obviously, no-one on this list has ever touched / kissed / slept with someone without the explicit permission of the other person, and has never been touched / kissed / slept with someone without their explicit permission.

I never said I charged for my lessons. It's always done for free, or a donation to charity.

I'm out. I wish you all well on your dating journey. Take care.

Yay Jane

Belated happy birthday Marl 🎂

Perfect if Mr G stays with you when he's here it doesn't seem a big leap to go away for weekends. I'd been seeing Mr BC for 6 weeks when we went on an overseas city break mind you .... We're now making plans for our year anniversary in a couple of months ..

Thank you for this discussion it’s been really helpful. I’ve done a lot of self analysis since my date with Mr walking last week, a lot of it has been beating myself up about how I acted, why I felt I couldn’t walk away/say no. This discussion has helped me see where he was inappropriate, and realise it wasn’t just about me not being assertive enough!

@Stuckinarut79 and @SueDoeName I hope you do both realise neither of you are at fault at all.

@LeaveBeforeTheLightsComeOn no there was some fault on my side as well, the first kiss was on him, he went for the lips as I pulled out of a peck on his cheek, that’s not ok. I then stayed for 3 drinks and 2 hours despite being uncomfortable, that’s on me, (I did sit opposite him and put my coat in the seat beside me as he was obviously trying to sit next to me. When he put his arm around me I could have/should have pulled away, I didn’t, so I get why he thought I was up for a snog in the car park, but again my body language was definitely saying I want or I wanted it to end, he did ask if it was ok, I didn’t answer but again tried to move away, to ask he obviously could sense I was uncomfortable but didn’t stop so that’s all on him.

Quite a few raw nerves showing this afternoon and it’s a tricky topic in many ways as what people write quickly can be easily misconstrued. To my mind the best form of defence has always been attack, and maybe averageguy that’s what is being said here? I certainly applaud the efforts you make to support awareness of boundaries in your classes. I hope you’ll come back.

Popping in to ask for some advice please! I've been seeing someone for 6 weeks (I know!! After I was in despair at Christmas!) and today he's in pain with a condition that I'm trained to treat. He won't let me anywhere near him (fine, his body his choice), but he's come out and said - albeit kindly - that my profession is just nonsense, has no evidence base and is not a credible option. I feel stupidly hurt. Would something like this be a problem to you? Just to clarify, I have a degree in what I do.

Yes putastraw I’d be fucking livid

@putastrawunderbaby so so not ok, I’d be devastate and couldn’t be with someone who didn’t respect my profession and can’t trust me enough to give something a go, what harm could it possible do even if he’s sceptical!!

He thinks I could make it worse! When I'm fully insured and treat people all the time! Thank you, I thought perhaps I was being a bit over sensitive.