What the hell is going on??!!

[candymilk]

So I need some perspective. I'm going out of my mind.

DH birthday tomorrow and so we went out for the day today as a little treat. Plan was to get to the town/place, have a coffee, look around a few shops and then have dinner altogether in quite a nice place which has some nice memories for us - kids with us too. DH said to kids bring some pocket money to spend at the shops.

Got there all good. Had coffee, mooched in an art gallery and a couple of grown up (boring) shops and then DH says right let's go and have dinner. I said to him about kids spending there pocket money (his suggestion) and asked could we do that first/before.

Cue a huge and prolonged rant from him at me in the street in front of kids and loads of people. So cringe. Lots of shouting about it always being about the kids and he wants to do what he wants to do on his birthday! So awful :( so embarrassing. I was so shocked and taken aback by his outburst.

He then says right let's look at shops then and stormed down the high street with us trailing behind. We didn't go into any shops and eventually got to the nice food place and he said no he didn't want to go in as it's spoiled so we went to a pizza place instead and ate in virtual silence.

Got home had a bit of a row (again) and basically he says I'm thoughtless and only care about the kids and he wanted one day for himself. I think he is being really childish and immature.

Now he's sulking and acting wounded like such a martyr that I feel guilty even though he overreacted and caused the whole nonsense!

Is it just me or is it him? I'm so confused I feel like I did something so awful and ruined his birthday - that is how he is acting :(

Ps he does have form for doing this kind of thing and it's always because I've done something 'thoughtless'

My very dear friend I sent married to a hugely abusive man. When she was on the verge of leaving him ten years ago her dc cried they didn’t want to have divorced parents and choose who to live with.

Now her dc are begging her to leave. Her eldest has left for uni and has no intention of returning home.

I imagine all her dc will follow suit. They’re all purposely choosing unis as far away from home as physically possible.

She told me the thought of being alone with her husband makes her feel like dying.

Is he still out OP? Have you had chance to think things through

Hi I've just got back from a lovely afternoon with the kids, lovely dinner just the three of us laughing and chatting and playing cards.

We talked about what happened. The children asked me directly and I said that the way their dad had behaved was not right and just because he is a grown up doesn't mean he can behave how he likes. I told them that I wasn't happy with him treating us like that and I was going to talk to him once he was calm.

Then they asked if it was their fault and I said no. Then they started worrying that we were getting divorced ;(. I said no. They seem ok and we had lots of cuddles and I told them I loved them a lot.

He kind of works, freelance in the arts world but it is all speculative and his 'income' is very small, tiny and cannot be relied upon and it can be months before something comes in. Sometimes I feel I am funding his fantasy lifestyle and feel resentful that he doesn't want to provide for his family like I and other people do for their families.

He is still out and I am dreading him coming home. When we are apart I am clear headed but when he is with me and starts with his rhetoric I get foggy headed. He is so convincing and believable.

One of the weird things that I have noticed he keeps doing is talking about my 'brand'. He thinks I am projecting a positive 'brand' outwards to people / family and friends and won't have anything negatively impact my 'brand'. He accuses me of pretending to be nice to others (my brand!) and mean to him.

My brain hurts.

You ARE funding his fantasy lifestyle!!!

You are papering over the cracks and putting on a facade to the rest of the world that he isn't an abusive arsehole.

You and your DC are doing the "pick me dance" if we do and say all the right things Daddy will be happy and a divorce won't happen. The family environment is so so toxic, your DC will replicate this dynamic in their own lives... is that what you want for them? Either they are abused or are abusers?

OP He accuses me of pretending to be nice to others (my brand!) and mean to him

Classic projection!

He thinks I am projecting a positive 'brand' outwards to people / family and friends and won't have anything negatively impact my 'brand'. He accuses me of pretending to be nice to others (my brand!) and mean to him

He really has lost a grip on reality

I think you're like a boiled frog, the slow drip drip drip over the years you can't recognise how awful it is.

Look at the "divorcing sulking DH" threads in relationships, so many similarities!

I don't want any of this for me or the kids but I can't just pack up and leave tonight. I need to play the longer game to get everything sorts out.

The problem is I've know him for a long time and I know he has suffered. I've seen his suffering and I feel so sorry for him too. But then I think of my own poor Dad who was in an orphanage for the first 10 years of his life and never knew his real parents and only had foster home after foster home and he out his heart and soul into his family and us kids. We had a few issues when I was a teenager but he was an absolute rock of a father. The sad thing is I saw him die - so did my siblings and we aren't all bullying mean sociopaths and we know how to treat others.

Re the counselling I think he is clever and is able to come across as calm and Intelligent and sensitive and the counsellor is reinforcing his hard done by narrative.

I really struggle with all it.

Yes to the slowly boiling frog!! :(

Thank you all for every single one of your responses. I really appreciate you all taking the time to read the thread and advise me. It means a lot x

Have a look at those threads below, a lot of similarities:

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238 Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005 and that's when things got nightmarish.

I hope the threads might help to see a path out of his abuse, also the OP of the threads below has excellent book recommendations

bullying mean sociopaths
you just named it, thats what this man is!
talking about my 'brand'. He thinks I am projecting a positive 'brand' outwards to people / family and friends and won't have anything negatively impact my 'brand'. He accuses me of pretending to be nice to others (my brand!) and mean to him
this is just bullshit/word salad to confuse the picture and throw you off the scent

@candymilk - your "D"H has turned into the father he despised. He is subjecting his own children to the same behaviour that he is getting therapy for. Your children recognize this and are starting to internalize his abuse blame themselves for his behaviour - this is what they are learning about relationships. You need to plan your escape before they are totally damaged for the childhood abuse they suffered from their shouty abusive father.

The fact that your DCs even asked the question whether it was their fault is a massive neon sign that you need to get them away from him.

He’s vile.

We know that you can't leave instantly but you need to planning and gathering RL support.

Does he know how precarious the financial position is? We wouldn't be going (well didn't back in the day) out celebrating adult birthdays with that kind of debt, nor would not working be tolerated... his arts stuff is a hobby!

Our kids are angry about the divorce, but it seems to me only insofar as it has inconvenienced them, having to pack up and switch back and forth between places. They're angry at both of us, but I trust given enough time they will understand my decision.

I will be paying him child support because I am the higher earner. It's still worth it.

My dad is like him. It messed us all up in different ways. And my mum became a bit like him too towards us out of her fear of his reaction.

The end result is that I now have low contact with them and won't meet up with them unless we're in public because he behaves a bit better then.

I do wish that my mum had left him. Even if we had to spend every other weekend with him, at least we wouldn't have had to live with him the rest of the time.

I think you need to tell him to get a job, or at least find alternative childcare so he can't use that as a reason not to work.

The debt is scary, but you can get help with that. And in a divorce, even though it's in your name it'd be considered marital debt (so half his).

Please start writing all this down in a diary. Please tell your GP what's going on, and include the bit about him destroying your painting (that's actual domestic violence). And ask if they can get you counselling.

As for his counselling? Yeah, my dad did that too, and used it to make my mum be nicer to him. Translation: used it to manipulate my mum even more.

Do you want your life and the dc lives to be like this? If you were made redundant tomorrow, how would you change your life?

@candymilk Just RTFT and I’m absolutely appalled. Not only is he treating you like a piece of sh**, he seems to do so deliberately and you honestly seem to believe that you are at fault. That’s how much he’s screwed with your head and warped your reality. He is a very abusive man, and yes, quite likely a victim of his own past. But that does not mean that you ought to fix him. In fact, you are never going to be able to.
Some PPs have made some excellent suggestions with regards to books to read, it might help you to see things a little more clearly although it’ll take time. Whilst it is not in anyone’s interest or scope to diagnose anyone on here, he most certainly displays some extreme narcissistic/histrionic behaviour. This is not something that can improve without many years of therapy, and only if the person is self aware and willing to change.
For your own MH and that of your children, please seek urgent advice and get support IRL to make the changes you need to in order to get out of this terrible situation. I do wish you all the very very best!

I wouldnt arrange any other outings without talking about this and his unacceptable behaviour - if he feels he cannot talk to you without having a tantrum, he needs help with that. You were so not in the wrong.

@candymilk I'm so glad you had a nice afternoon and an open discussion with your kids. It sounds like you have a great relationship with them.

I know you don't want to break up their family. You mentioned he was in counselling but what about couples' counselling? Also, I think you need to sit him down and talk about the financial situation. I too am a freelance artist, but I fully accept that if I had kids then I'd likely need a day job in order to have a stable income. Having kids means making sacrifices. Also, your kids are both in school--there's really no need to have a full-time SAHD anymore. He could get a part-time job to help out.

His lack of employment is likely fuelling his MH issues. But remember, you can't put yourself or your kids in a toxic household just because he's had his problems. Most people have. It is possible to work through them. It sounds like he's not really trying though, from what you say about his behaviour with the counsellor.

Honestly, I think he wants to be the victim and have other people look after him.

@NumbersStation wrote, 'a bad childhood isn’t something to be passed down the generations like an heirloom. Good people would be determined to never let their own children know that pain' and that really resonates, OP.

Omg I could have known in my bones he’s was an “art dealer” “art world” person who is “freelance”
Mostly they’re just people who can’t hold down a 9-5 and proudly say they can’t work for anyone.
FYI I work in this said world.
God I’ve met so many sociopaths in my career. Always chasing the deal.

Don't let your kids' questions about divorce - or even expressed fear of it - sway your feelings. They are appeasing him too, and they may even be feeling responsible for him. Which is clearly very wrong.

Don't say you're not divorcing, in fact, don't answer the question if you can avoid it, eg respond by asking why they think that.

Also just to check - might they think you divorcing will mean they will stay with dad and you will leave?

Look up narcissistic abuse on you tube. Just because you mentioned that he is like this around birthdays.