What the hell is going on??!!

[candymilk]

So I need some perspective. I'm going out of my mind.

DH birthday tomorrow and so we went out for the day today as a little treat. Plan was to get to the town/place, have a coffee, look around a few shops and then have dinner altogether in quite a nice place which has some nice memories for us - kids with us too. DH said to kids bring some pocket money to spend at the shops.

Got there all good. Had coffee, mooched in an art gallery and a couple of grown up (boring) shops and then DH says right let's go and have dinner. I said to him about kids spending there pocket money (his suggestion) and asked could we do that first/before.

Cue a huge and prolonged rant from him at me in the street in front of kids and loads of people. So cringe. Lots of shouting about it always being about the kids and he wants to do what he wants to do on his birthday! So awful :( so embarrassing. I was so shocked and taken aback by his outburst.

He then says right let's look at shops then and stormed down the high street with us trailing behind. We didn't go into any shops and eventually got to the nice food place and he said no he didn't want to go in as it's spoiled so we went to a pizza place instead and ate in virtual silence.

Got home had a bit of a row (again) and basically he says I'm thoughtless and only care about the kids and he wanted one day for himself. I think he is being really childish and immature.

Now he's sulking and acting wounded like such a martyr that I feel guilty even though he overreacted and caused the whole nonsense!

Is it just me or is it him? I'm so confused I feel like I did something so awful and ruined his birthday - that is how he is acting :(

Ps he does have form for doing this kind of thing and it's always because I've done something 'thoughtless'

also I think he thinks I am there to fix him.

Again, funny how YOUR horrible childhood does not require him to provide a "fix" for you, but your life ought to revolve around his perception of what he requires from you innit?

His brushing off of your DD's embarrassment - ditto.
His needs, his emotions, are the only ones that are important in your family. They are the only emotions that are valid, in his opinion - his wife & DC's feelings are immaterial, because to him you are just scapegoats to his unregulatable emotions. To him, you are not individuals with your own autonomy - you only exist in relation to him, & are only there to prop up his sense of selfhood.

The crux of it is he says that he wouldn't do it if I didn't upset or provoke him

"Look what you made me do".

But you didn't. He did it to himself.

Apart from fathering your children what exactly does he bring to your relationship? He won’t work. He is happy for you to knock your pan out and then do uniforms on the weekend after He marches out of the home. He seemingly doesn’t make you or the children happy. In fact he seems to make you miserable.

I’m truly sorry that he is so damaged but that does not give him the right to damage you and the children.

As for the debt? Scary. But you can do this OP. It is within your control. He isn’t.

His misery is everyone else’s fault. This may have been the case when he was small but not now.

It doesn’t matter if the debt is in your name
You’re married

I must say it's a massive relief that he's not here at the moment. I feel like I can breathe and I'm not walking on eggshells. Such a relief.

But he is getting weekly counselling so I am hoping that there is hope for him and us.

I am not a shrink, & even if I were, none of us here can diagnose your DH's specific dysfunction remotely. However ... hard & extensive experience leads me to suggest that DH has some kind of Narc or Borderline disorder. These are difficult to treat & rarely respond to counselling - because for counselling to bring benefit, the sufferer has to truly engage, truly own their behaviours, recognise how they behave towards others & make sincere efforts to change those behaviours & regulate their more disproportionate emotions.

Nobody can help having a Narc or Borderline disorder, & some find ways to self-regulate & ensure that their condition is managed & does not negatively impact others. However - the Narc or Borderline who is also abusive will not change, & will not respond positively to treatment. Instead, they will use the treatment itself to skew the narrative toward their own ends, because they will genuinely believe that everybody but themselves is at fault.

Look at how DH makes you excuse him for acting out, because his parents died & he is all alone. All about him. The more he learns about his psychology & early childhood patterns, the more he is going to weaponise them against you. Sorry to announce this so portenteously & gloomily - but really, if his dismissal of DD's embarrassment & everyone's upset is standard for him over the past 10 years, he's not going to change. He's not going to become the man you want to see emerge, who would own & apologise for his outbursts. He would not even allow you to feel your own emotion of embarrassment - look at how he responded - he informed you that because you did not personally know any bystanders, that you had nothing to be embarrassed about, ergo any upset belonged solely to him, ergo it was all your fault. Classic deflection, classic manipulation, classic denial of anybody else's feelings.

I cannot urge you strongly enough to read the Lundy Bancroft book, & so start educating & protecting yourself through his remarkable insights on exactly how "Angry & Controlling Men" perpetuate the abuse cycle to keep their families in thrall.

On one of my recent birthdays he went mad because he didn't think I had shown that I really like and valued something he got for me. It was a painting and because I didn't put it up straight away (I rested up against the side of the bed) he smashed it up and threw it away!

That's batshit crazy behaviour and aggressive!

Try to get as much outside perspective as you can - therapist, solicitor, SHL etc - talking about his behaviour to people in IRL will help you to see how utterly abusive he is.

I agree
I actually think the therapy he’s doing is clearly not positive. It gives him a language to use against you “you’re triggering me” “all I want is to be listened to/heard” they’re all the kind of things you might discuss with a therapist
So he’s just learnt some more tools to confuse and abuse you. And these ones are perfect! Because if you call bullshit then you’re a cold hard bitch who doesn’t understand how awful his life is.

I'm horrified by everything you've said. On the basis of his behaviour alone I think you should leave him and take the kids, too.

It's no surprise he's got a crap work record. Clearly you're not the only one who can't bear him.

You are in such a lot of debt and he isn't even trying to work to help relieve you of that pressure. Is the debt caused by him in any way?

If you split up then any debts won't belong purely to you.

Can you put the debts onto the mortgage?

If the kids are 9 and 11 there's absolutely no reason why he can't work full time. It's disgraceful that you are the one suffering the pressure financially.

He is utterly awful

I think you are right. I'm so invested. I can't bear the thought of him badmouthing me to my friends and his family dating I am cruel and not looking after him properly.

The crux of it is he says that he wouldn't do it if I didn't upset or provoke him.
No - the crux for YOU, dear Candymilk, is that THIS is at the absolute heart of what abusive coercive controllers do. Lundy Bancroft book explains all this!

Oh and he says he wasn't shouting, we were just having a disagreement. Er no you were shouting at me in public. Not screaming (which he sometimes does at home) but his voice was raised and I was getting a telling off!
Please google DARVO - Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim & Offender.
& I'm sure you already know what gaslighting is ...

I've got loads of debt - £40kplus and it feels unmanageable. I use all of my salary on that and other bills.

Debt that no doubt has been racked up as you are paying for everything while DH refuses to work.
If my spouse had that much debt while supporting me & my children, I would feel seriously ashamed.
Your DH won't.
I wonder - in his self-appointed role of SAHP, how much of the actual childcare & domestic load does he actually do? (Why were YOU the one who had to remember the kids' school uniforms & put them in to wash?)
I also wonder how much of his refusal to work is actually more sinister financial abuse, i.e. whther he beieves that if he keeps you mired in debt, you cannot afford to leave?

Please find time to have a long cool-headed think about your financial situation. Do you own your home, & if so how much equity do you have? Could you downsize to address the debt - finding a property that is big enough JUST for you & the kids?

In the same way, you need to think about how much of the domestic load DH is actually taking on. How much he costs you to 'run' as a SAHP, vs: what he actually contributes. I know this sounds cold, but these are facts that at some stage you may want to present to a solicitor - a really good one, who will be putting your interests first. I know this is overwhelming to think about, but at some stage you need to set time aside to build a case for what you want to happen in the event of separation.
Who gets to keep the house, or reinvest any equity from the house in a new family home.
Who gets to live in that family home with the kids.
Who has access visits, & when, & whether that should be overnight.

His status as SAHP is worrying given your debt, how that would impact on your ability to keep providing for the children in the event of divorce, & how he might be able to manipulate his current status to demand that you keep supporting him in some way.
Please do not let this dismay you.
It's a long road to getting clear of this level of abuse, & if you conclude that you can no longer live with it or have him inflict it on your children, you are going to need to be very clear about how your protect YOUR interests & retain custody of your kids.

I think you are right. I'm so invested. I can't bear the thought of him badmouthing me to my friends and his family dating I am cruel and not looking after him properly.

Don't worry about that for one moment OP.
Your friends, & even his family, must wonder how a grown man can allow his wife to rack up £40k of debt because she is forced to be sole breadwinner while her DH is a "SAHP" to 2 teenagers FFS.

Why do I feel so responsible for his feelings and behaviour?

To keep banging this same drum Candymilk - Lundy Bancroft's book will tell you exactly why, & give you coping strategies while you gets to grips with continuing to assess your situation.

btw - you should absolutely be congratulating yourself for knowing that you are NOT responsible for his feelings of behaviours.

He won't accept this though and blames me - which is giving me the rage!!
Good. Keep that rage bubbling nicely. It will give you clarity, & strength of purpose, & help you when you are feeling wobbly.

What grown man gives two figs for it being 'their day'. And at the expense of his children. Ridiculous.

This has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with him keeping you in your place.

And why the hell are you doing the washing, and why isn't he working at least part time - the kids are hardly babies.

I am really sorry OP, but you need to take him somewhere away from your children and, as my mother would say, "Tell him his fortune."

A couple of things, he cannot continue to make capital out of the loss of his parents, that is the natural order of things, sadly people die. If being upset after seven years were the norm, then you would see thousands of older folk sobbing on the street, but you don't. For context, I lost my father at 18, my brother at 30, my mum at 38 and my sister last year... I am all alone but I realise, with the exception of my dad who was similar to your husband, I was lucky to have each of them in my life.

Next, with children comes joy, responsibility and also a lack of freedom. He does not get to throw a paddy in the street, he is not a child but if he behaves like one he will be treated like one... you should think about finding a naughty step!

Finally, he has no right to guilt you or your children as that is a sure fire way to drive everyone away and REALLY leave him on his own...

Apologies, I said "teenagers" upthread & think that's wrong ... the kids are 9 & 11?
Well old enough to have both parents working, even if one of them worked shorter hours.
WhyTF is DH refusing to contribute financially, especially given the volume of debt?

So he had a grim childhood.

So do your kids if they have to witness this kind of thing.

Is this a cycle you want to perpetuate?

I wonder what he says to the DC daily when you aren't around..,

If you aren't going to leave urgently then I would be telling him he needs to find a job. I would not be beyond controlling the finances tightly so he has zero spends - yes financially abusive but he needs to get a job!

@WonderTree

Exactly.

So did I.

Some of us look at that childhood and go "I'm not doing that"

Some use it as an excuse to perpetuate the cycle, and not take responsibility for our own actions.

There's no excuse whatsoever.

I'm so sorry, OP. This sounds hellish, and you need to get out.

Keep an open dialogue with your children at all times, even long after you've separated. You'll probably move on quicker than they do, and they must feel like they're safe to express their thoughts and emotions. This is so important, I can't stress it enough.

Why are so many men emotionally immature, yet society says that it's women who are 'too emotional' to hold leadership positions. It's fucking bullshit.

Stay strong, OP. Be open with your children, listen to them, make sure they know they can be honest with you, and together you will survive this.

Ok so I’ve RTFT and OMG what an entitled, manipulative, entitled, Twat!

My exh was just like this, and life is so less stressful and so much more relaxed now we are together.

I n know you’ve said it would be difficult to leave for many reasons but life is way too short to be putting up with this hideous emotional abuse. 😞

None of his vile behaviour is your fault. You are not responsible for him. You are responsible for your children and yourself only. I know it’s easier said than done, believe me I know.

Your posts are a very difficult read and I am so sorry you are in this position 😞

OP this sounds like a carbon copy of me and my tantrum throwing, special occasion ruining STBXH. I spent all my time questioning my sanity, trying to get him to understand where I was coming from and to understand why he behaved the way he did.
Since I've been rid of him my thinking is crystal clear, I don't find myself constantly wondering whether I did the right thing or if I'm in the wrong and someone else acting upset is my fault.
You need to stop trying to talk him round or get him to understand your point of view - he isn't going to because his entire persona in this relationship is playing the victim and forcing everyone to run around him keeping the peace and apologising. That's his angle and he may well be fully aware he's doing it and it's deliberate. To be able to walk away you need to be able to see that the victim is the role which he has chosen to play and that is not your fault and I hope won't be your problem for much longer

This thread feels physically painful for me to read. You're living with a foul, bullying abuser and he's fucked you right up. He's also fucking up your kids hugely.
When I was a kid I would have been devastated at the idea of my parents divorcing. Looking back I think it would have been better for all of us if they had. And my dad was about a 10th as bad as your husband sounds.