Divorcing sulking H - will it happen in 2020?

[jamaisjedors]

So this is my FIFTH thread, and no, I'm still not divorced and probably won't be in 2020 as my exH is refusing to sign the initial papers and so this could drag on until 2021 (2 years after our separation) when I can divorce him without his consent.

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Now I am at the stage of entering financial negotiations with exH through lawyers and solicitors plus he has appealed the judge's initial decision so we have to go back to court in mid-February.

Fun start to the New Year which is why, a whole year on, I still need the support and advice of all of those who've been through similar situations or who are just naturally wise !

I have also come a very long way this year.

Leaving a controlling and emotionally/verbally abusive relationship was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Actually NO, the hardest thing I ever did was STAY in that relationship so long in a bid to keep our family together and make it work.

I'd love to think that by sharing this journey on here it might help others who are doubting their strength and capacity to leave - my life is a million times better now although I still have a lot of healing to do.

I was thinking the same thing. I mentioned it above, yet not as succinctly. Anyone who “Poor DH’s” you is being manipulative - they may not even know that they have an agenda. It may simply be that they find seeing him like that painful, and they don’t like it, and can’t see that it’s not your job to fix it - easily remedied with a quick reminder. Others may simply be sick of feeling like they are stuck in the middle of you both, but won’t ever tel you this to your face. Some may have old-fashioned programming about women’s roles that they won’t ever admit to.

He has been successful with this manoeuvre involving your friend. You have him going round and round in your head first thing in the morning.

This is what is driving me nuts. All last week was all about him all over again.

I also agree that the "woe is me" and depression are more

about him realising he may not necessarily get his own way on this... possibly for the first time in a long time.

Difficult stuff for exH.

First the friend emailing and having to think about a polite but firm reply.

Then the end of the week spent preparing documents for my lawyer and going back and forth with her over our arguments for the custody appeal (she has done an amazing job, managed to turn all of exH's accusations against me into proof of his ongoing paranoia and instability!).

Then at the weekend at a work event his boss wanted to chat to me about how exH was doing (he had apparently been very quiet at work but is now back to his usual argumentative and picky self and has actually told people he is in the process of separating/divorcing).

And now today I have an email from him asking to swap his alternate Wednesday when he is supposed to have the kids because he has an "important meeting". Now thinking about how to reply to that.

So this morning a lot of my thoughts were about him too.

Plus I have come out in eczema and so am feeling burning-faced and itchy... grrrrr.

Some may have old-fashioned programming about women’s roles that they won’t ever admit to. I agree that this is true too, noone is asking exH to worry about me, and it would be culturally unacceptable for me to say I don't give a f**k.

The flying monkeys really are out - I get the concept totally but when they are people you know and who don't necessarily know they are being flying monkeys/manipulated (because who wants to think that about themselves?), it's very hard to just cut them off/shut their voices out.

@SecondRow that was a very interesting read and very relevant to my situation.
Sub-heading of the story/article :
"Envy over her success led her husband, also a writer, to become violent. She fights every day for her safety — and to avoid being relegated to obscurity like so many writers who are mothers."

Things definitely got a lot more unbearable around here when I moved into a prominent position at (our) workplace. Constant put-downs about my work, the team, our boss, the whole organisation (of which I am part of senior management).

Interesting stuff about how the better the (female) writer gets at "juggling" everything - kids, house, work, success - the more resentful her (male) writer husband gets until things take a violent turn.

Also the years afterwards of wrangling through courts and about every last thing.

Thanks! Going to try to get some work done now and clear exH out of my head for a while - although I will be seeing him later on at a union meeting (but only 30 mins and I have my allies with me!).

Your reply should be little more than No. No apologies, no explanation, no justifications. Ideally you can accommodate each other at some future point

At this point it is simply about control again for him. He asks, you agree and (unspoken) his needs/wants/meetings/work are more important than your own.

If you are concerned about the appeal maybe worth a word with your lawyer about how to word it. And prepare for more like it.

Dex
Thanks for your email. Unfortunately I can't swap Wednesday as I've made plans according to our court ordered schedule. It's a shame as the boys look forward to seeing you.

Can Sam go and be with them at his house until he gets home or would it not be worth it. But I realise he can't just sort his own sitter as he might ask his friend from the hospital.

I don't think you should swap as I really don't think he'd do you a favour or if he did it'd be used against you in court. And then he'd be forever changing and you wouldn't know where you were, neither would the boys

I think he'll be forever changing too.

However the strategic part of my brain says to say yes, and get it in writing, as one of the arguments my lawyer is using in court is that I have arranged my work schedule to be available for the DC (she has it in writing from my boss) whereas exH hasn't.

This will be another example to add down the line if the discussion of shared custody comes up.

After what you just said I'd definitely take this to your lawyer for advice. But again make it clear is a one off and have a strategy moving forward as he is doing it to sneak into your head and will continue to do so.

As your DC grow up this should be less of an issue as they will be able to manage a few hours alone going forward. Although again be prepared to have this to be a problem for him too. By then you will hopefully see him as little more than an irritant given how well you've done so far.

I know you have done it before, but perhaps the FP online would be helpful again, even as a distraction. I found being proactive helped me to take back control (of myself if nothing else).

They wouldn't be any use as flying monkeys if they were people you didn't know or didn't care about upsetting. That's the whole point of flying monkeys - they are well chosen to be in a position to put pressure on you or make you feel guilty.

I think discuss your response with your solicitor first. Just the fact of his email requesting the change, I would have thought, would be enough to show that he has not adjusted his work schedule to accommodate the children.

Yes discuss with solicitor, but I would respond "No, I can not rearrange my life to accommodate chopping and changing of childcare provision"

I do not believe that a flexible arrangement will ever work with him. He will expect you to be flexible but not him. Yes being rigid is a pain but also means you know exactly where you stand. Your DC will not need childcare forever.

I'm afraid I have to say I think it's outrageous your boss is asking you how your ex is! You're separated pending divorce - why on earth would you be expected to know?

Is it possible to develop a standard non answer about XH for all flying monkeys friends, busy bodies bosses and concerned nosy parkers do-gooders? Something like I'm having minimal contact with him at the moment so you're asking/ telling the wrong person, haha!

As for changing his Wednesday, I'd agree to do it IF (and only if) it works for the dcs and for you. Get it all documented and agreed that it's a once off and you are being fair and flexible for the dcs' sake. It could stand you in good stead in court and in the future to show that you are willing to compromise if it is in the dcs' interests.

Hmm it wouldn't surprise me if the whole Wed thing is to hook you in after the flying monkeys failed 🧐

Combo of all things, I expect. He is definitely goading you, and trying to be the big man and prove to everyone that his job is more important and you must repeatedly accommodate him as per his “normal”. I think this must end, but getting solicitor’s advice about wording this correctly is the best solution. (Especially if you want to avoid fellow mental hospital patient as potential babysitter.)

As for changing his Wednesday, I'd agree to do it IF (and only if) it works for the dcs and for you. Get it all documented and agreed that it's a once off and you are being fair and flexible for the dcs' sake. It could stand you in good stead in court and in the future to show that you are willing to compromise if it is in the dcs' interests.

I'm leaning towards this. The dc ARE old enough to be left by themselves but on Wednesdays there are sports activities to take into account.

It actually suits me if exH takes the DC the following week (although I would never ask him) because I have a meeting which could run on and DC1 needs taking to the psychologist.

I am going to separate the two weeks so that this is not a straight "swap" as he put it.

So I get in writing that he can't do next week because of work commitments and say that I am able to step in.

Then I agree that for the children's sake I agree to him seeing him the following week exceptionally but on condition that he takes DC1 to the psychologist (normally he refuses because he says it's too much of a rush).

If he won't do it, he won't see the kids for 2 weeks - tough. - his choice.

Either way it looks bad for him that he can't even commit to contact every other week - and yet he is still pushing for 50/50 custody.

My lawyer says it's important to show that I am able to be flexible with work to fit in with the children (probably a sexist double standard) and my boss has testified to this end.

Annoying though that what "looks good" in court is fitting in with exH's "oh so important" schedule.

I don't want to set a precedent for this down the line, but last time I put my foot down he just said he didn't HAVE to take the kids so the end result was that I had to reorganise my schedule anyway.

clever move

Is it possible to develop a standard non answer about XH for all flying monkeys friends, busy bodies bosses and concerned nosy parkers do-gooders? Something like I'm having minimal contact with him at the moment so you're asking/ telling the wrong person, haha!

I was about to say something like this. I'm shocked at his boss thinking it appropriate or of any concern to you how he is behaving. Like a teacher taking the opportunity to say that they are concerned about a child, so that the parent can check it further, or something.
I would be (literally) widening my eyes a little, in future, to display amazement and basically saying 'not my problem, I have enough to think about, keeping the boys and myself going.'

The Wednesday thing is a complete contradiction to all his palaver about shared custody. He is still Mr No 1 Important and all else comes below that. I think you are spot on, as always, in your handling of it.

God, I hope you’re keeping a diary of all the people talking to you about his behaviour....

condition that he takes DC1 to the psychologist (normally he refuses because he says it's too much of a rush).

He really doesn't get how parenting works, does he? The whole bit where you put yourself out to do things for your kids that benefit them?

Parenting is where kids do things that reflect upon parents isn’t it??? 🤣🤣🤣

Haha to exH putting himself out for his family - for anyone else "in need" in the world but not for us.

He does a lot of charity work, which has been facilitated by me looking after the DC.

Because it reflects on him. If it’s “just you”, there’s no point. Nobody’s going to see it.

Its interesting that he is sending in people to fight his corner for him.
he is so low & depressed because he hasn't got more time with DC,
then can't organise his time to see them,
You, meanwhile can juggle your time to enable him to free up his specially important calendar/meeting/thing he has to do
If it was you, you would find a friend/babysitter/solution to watch them.
even if you have to pay.
Why can't he do the same ?
It's a complete contradiction

Then I agree that for the children's sake I agree to him seeing him the following week exceptionally but on condition that he takes DC1 to the psychologist (normally he refuses because he says it's too much of a rush)

Clever. You are one canny lass, Jamais!

Yes to the above. It's almost as if it's all about control and not the DC.

I'm mulling over a message to Sam and other friend to thank them again for his concern about ex being depressed over not seeing the children and say he's obviously feeling better as he's giving up his contact as he's busy.