Divorcing sulking H - will it happen in 2020?

[jamaisjedors]

So this is my FIFTH thread, and no, I'm still not divorced and probably won't be in 2020 as my exH is refusing to sign the initial papers and so this could drag on until 2021 (2 years after our separation) when I can divorce him without his consent.

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Now I am at the stage of entering financial negotiations with exH through lawyers and solicitors plus he has appealed the judge's initial decision so we have to go back to court in mid-February.

Fun start to the New Year which is why, a whole year on, I still need the support and advice of all of those who've been through similar situations or who are just naturally wise !

I have also come a very long way this year.

Leaving a controlling and emotionally/verbally abusive relationship was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Actually NO, the hardest thing I ever did was STAY in that relationship so long in a bid to keep our family together and make it work.

I'd love to think that by sharing this journey on here it might help others who are doubting their strength and capacity to leave - my life is a million times better now although I still have a lot of healing to do.

To be fair to "Sam", he is also concerned for me and the kids (and not just exH) if we are dragged in and out of court for years to come.

He has been through a divorce himself.

It's hard to know how to handle shutting down people talking about exh.

I wasn't explicit about it to "Sam" and although we avoided the subject for most of our meet-up, we did move onto it towards the end.

His motives are genuine, to help us all.

And it's tempting for me to want to hear about how exH is, to be able to gauge what's going on with his mental health in relation to divorce negotiations and the DC.

I'm aware that this is probably not very healthy and it would be better if I wasn't discussing exH with other people.

That will be an important stage in moving on.

But right now I'm still concerned and having to make decisions about the dc and trying to work out whether we can move forward with the divorce or not so it's "helpful" to hear something.

I guess it must be hard to shut down, especially if there is a Schadenfreude aspect to the conversation (that might be me projecting there 🤭...). People probably want to tell you what they know be it gossip, or whatever, to make you feel that they are “on your side”. It’s hard for others to remain objective depending on their relationship to you and Captain Sulkypants, and of course their own marital or relationship experiences.

Remember there are lots of ways to manage your situation. What works for some might not work for others. There is no need to justify what you do or do not do to anyone here on MN.

Trust your judgment.

It's becoming much more balanced these days.

You've got this Jamais.

Yep I can imagine there's no good way. You want and need to know what's going on and Sam is your way in.

How are things ticking along do you and the DS in the new post lockdown situation?

@RandomMess hi!!!

I was just thinking about the thread and it had dropped off my "I'm on" list...

So I relied to exh about having the kids over night, I told him that for the moment, like the judge, I did not have enough infomation to make a decision.

Predictably exh replied snappily that is was deplorable that my position had not changed after a year.

In the meantime my lawyer has contacted his lawyer to say we are open to a discussion about ex's health.

No reply, 10 days later.

In the meantime "Sam" has called again, told me that ex is very down but not helping himself (and I am not to feel guilty about it).

He said he has offered to stay overnight at ex's so that the kids can stay, but ex hasn't taken him up on it.

Yesterday I also spoke to ex's sister.

Ex's mother has been taken into hospital (the dc had told me) and when his brother spoke to him to tell him, he apparently thought ex was in a bad way.

Ex hasn't gone down to see his mother even though it is apparently possible.

SIL wanted to know where we were at with child custody divorce etc because she wants to encourage ex to get on with it.

He has been saying that the procedure is taking forever when in fact he is the one dragging it out.

She wants to email him with some "tough love" to tell him to sign the divorce papers and move on.

I am under no illusions that that will change anything but she knows the whole situation now so will know what is true and what is not - she says he is wallowing in the victim role and won't do anything to help himself.

As far as me and the kids are concerned, I am doing well, have finished my mbsr mindfulness course and am trying to stick to meditation every day.

The kids are doing fine and don't seem to be angry with me about having to go back and forth to their dad's next week (for the moment).

I'm adjusting to being back to work physically but still working from home a lot which I enjoy - I'm finding being round a lot of people wearing after 3 months at home!!

Remember he doesn't seem to want to be divorced, because you'll change your mind and it will all be fine.

And I think it's fine for the kids to know your waiting on a doctors report to say your dads doing must better, once the lawyers/judge has seen it we can move on with custody.

He could do that if he's desperate for his kids, he could have Sam over if he's desperate for his kids. Or he could argue with you because he has to be right...

He could do that if he's desperate for his kids, he could have Sam over if he's desperate for his kids.

This is what my mum said.

If he was interested in what was best for the kids he would have taken Sam up on his offer and he would have provided info about his health so we didn't all have to wait another year.

Also SIL told me that ex's brother is still waiting for ex to reply about going on holiday with them at the beginning of August. Which would mean he could go away with the kids.

As it stands the dc and I have no idea if they are going away with their dad or if they will be staying at home for the first 2 weeks in August.

Which of course means I can't make any plans for myself either.

He is being deliberately obtuse, he doesn't want it to end, he doesn't want you to have "won", he doesn't want simple w/e's with his DC,
He wants to string it out as long as possible, as he will have to pay out, Is affronted that he is required to furnish a report from Dr,
He cannot support the idea of failure.

So while he wants free access to his kids, he doesn't want to be seen as being "chaperoned" by his family, (on holidays he frequently took together before?)thus he hasn't committed to the holiday. It seems he is not functioning well

So he's still hasn't worked out his sulking/stonewalling is not now or never again make you get back into the box he assigned to you.

He is never going to change. The divorce will only happen once the judge grants it. He proving time and time again that his mental health is still not back to 'normal', for want of a better description. He still making all about him, he not thinking about how HIS behaviour is affecting his children's lives.

He is certainly showing that he is still "unwell" would ILs be willing to take the boys away with them and leave Ex to go along or not?

Would the DSs want that or not? I suppose technically it is Ex contact time but I wonder if your lawyer can push for it as it is time relationship building with Ex family and a chance for him to spend time with them.

He really is insufferable and accepts zero responsibility for any of his behaviour or choices. How fragile his ego is Han W trying to destroy you for so long...

Can you get the boys to ask him if they are going on holiday in August with his family or not.

It is all about him and all about control. Whilst he keeps everyone hanging, he has control of you and everyone else.

He does sound less 'together' than before.

So this is the only thing that he has control over when it comes to you, when in the past he had full control and he is not prepared to give it up. Keep pushing for his medical report and when he refuses you will know that this is not about the kids but controlling you.

Yep he is controlling everyone else holiday plans...

The boys, his sisters, yours...

Whatever the future holds you will need precise court ordered contact or he will use it to try and control you.

Totally agree about the control.

It was one of the things which used to drive me nuts, his refusal to commit to things (including plans with other people) under cover of not wanting to be rushed - and yet he is someone who deals very badly with surprises or unplanned things.

The boys don't know what they are doing with their dad, they said maybe something with their uncle but nothing definite.

Actually thinking back, exH did exactly the same thing at New Year.

The boys said they were invited to stay over with exH and friends, but exH didn't contact me about it and we were all left hanging.

In the end, the boys' psychologist told me it was upsetting them not knowing if they could spend NYE with their dad or not and that I should get in touch to find out. Which I did.

This is the same with the holiday situation.

He knows if he doesn't confirm (either with me or with his family), I can't plan anything.

I'm pretty sure he will know that last year I got the dates from his family and went on a yoga retreat during the week that family were there.

So for August not confirming with anyone means I can't book anything.

TBH I've let go of the idea of planning anything for that period, I will already be away with the DC for 2 weeks, and so if they end up coming back every night in August, I will just potter about at home and go for swims/walks etc. If they are away overnight I might take myself off for a few days but I feel less urgency about it than last year.

@RandomMess

Whatever the future holds you will need precise court ordered contact or he will use it to try and control you.

This is good advice. At the moment I can adapt to the last minute changes etc. but in the future I can imagine if, for example, I met someone else, exH would do everything he could to make it impossible for me to go away without the boys by dropping out of visits or not confirming til the last minute.

I can't remember your boys' ages but think they are slightly younger than mine. In which case, it won't be many more years until you can make your plans and the boys can be at home without you . My two getting older (youngest 15) has completely put the kibosh on my XH being able to assert control about me being able to go out or not by whether he has them or not.

Obviously, I'm not going anywhere overnight without the youngest staying with a friend but I can go out for the day/evening and she is quite happy and self sufficient at home. The oldest can be left overnight, I just come home to the debris ... but that's another story!

@Daftapath (love your name, reminds me of my granny), the boys are 13 and nearly 16.

Which means that like you, if exH decides to drop them off early or pick them up later (he always warns me, but with very little notice and no choice in the matter), they have their keys and can get in.

I definitely wouldn't leave them overnight either but they can be left of an evening.

I always like to be there when they get back from exH's though as it seems ridiculous to ask for them to be back for 9pm and not be there myself (particularly to the boys themselves).

Last week I went for a cup of tea with friends, ended up staying for dinner and got home at 9.05. The boys said their dad had made a remark about me not being there (the car wasn't out front).

OTOH he has no proof, my car could have been in the garage, or parked somewhere else or there could have been another responsible adult waiting for them.

I'm trying not to get too stressed about it, the court case still being ongoing makes me feel like I'm still under scrutiny to be "perfect parent" but if this goes on all year I will do what I need to do to save my sanity.

So he is currently messing about with pick up and drops offs?

I would get your lawyer to iterate to his that the psychologist has already mentioned that it is very upsetting to the boys that he will not commit to plans and the same for when he changes pick up and drop off and you cannot extend flexibility as it is unfair on them!

Call it out as controlling behaviour and indicates he isn't well enough to have the DC overnight!!

Not too much messing about just stuff mostly making it convenient for him, for example DS1 has a party on Saturday night, so exH is dropping him there at 7pm and dropping DS2 back then too (rather than 9pm).

Lucky I didn't have plans for Saturday night!

As it is, I have said ok but drop DS2 at 6.45 (so we can go to the cinema together and have some time just the two of us).

I didn't say why I wanted DS2 back at 6.45 because if I say we are going to the cinema he'll probably change the time again.

Other stuff is for example on Wednesday, when he is supposed to pick up the DC after school (11am finish - half day), he said he couldn't pick them up til 12.30 as he had a meeting.

If I say anything he'll say he has no obligation to take them.

I'm noting it down though !

God, the sooner you get this divorce and custody locked down, the better!!! I can’t imagine the sense of emancipation!!! (I know it won’t be complete, but what a bloody start!)

I suspect part of the reason he doesn't want them overnight is that he then has more control over you. He can mess about with drop off and pickup everyday and he knows it stops you having any independent social life. If you get a night off, or worse, a week or two, who knows what you will be able to get up to and with whom!

This is why I think find out what the boys want for the August holiday and then sort out with SIL and give him a very tight deadline to tell the DS either way what is happening.

So if the boys want to go he is forced to agree/or say they are not going by the end of next week. If he says they are going and then changes his mind then they go with SIL anyway.

Basically take his control over you away.