Divorcing sulking H - will it happen in 2020?

[jamaisjedors]

So this is my FIFTH thread, and no, I'm still not divorced and probably won't be in 2020 as my exH is refusing to sign the initial papers and so this could drag on until 2021 (2 years after our separation) when I can divorce him without his consent.

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Now I am at the stage of entering financial negotiations with exH through lawyers and solicitors plus he has appealed the judge's initial decision so we have to go back to court in mid-February.

Fun start to the New Year which is why, a whole year on, I still need the support and advice of all of those who've been through similar situations or who are just naturally wise !

I have also come a very long way this year.

Leaving a controlling and emotionally/verbally abusive relationship was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Actually NO, the hardest thing I ever did was STAY in that relationship so long in a bid to keep our family together and make it work.

I'd love to think that by sharing this journey on here it might help others who are doubting their strength and capacity to leave - my life is a million times better now although I still have a lot of healing to do.

The other positive thing about doing all through the courts is that the judge will have made the decision and you won't have Ex hassling about changing it/you being unfair etc etc because you had no say in it...

Hmm, I would be worried that the risk is that you agree conditionally not to do the psych assessment and then he fails to meet the conditions (of having reasonable conversations about finances/divorce etc). Wouldn’t it mean that after you’ve turned the court down for the whole family assessment, that you no longer have that card to play?

Personally I’d agree with your lawyer, you have nothing to fear, agree to the assessment.

KOKO Jamais, you are doing great!

I suspect the judge is bloody brilliant suggesting this... your ex is already showing signs of liability and this may shove him right over the cliff if you push him 🤛😂

I agree, I think the judge wants clarity of his mental health, before deciding if he can have the DC longer. & will get an idea of how the DC feel.
I can understand you wanting this signed off, but in the end it's the DC safety, in every sense, that matters.

hasnt your ex a few times suggested that it is YOU who has the problem. An assessment would put that claim to bed straight away. In fact you could possibly allow your assessor access to the councelling notes which would certainly reinforce everything you have done to address the issues and keep the boys safe, and the behaviour of your ex predating the breakdown

Lots of really good points about the assessment.

Initially I guess my heart sank st the time and cost of it all plus putting the dc through it.

Otoh, exh has been pushing hard from the dc to be heard by the court, and I feel that it's a conflict of loyalty for them.

Presumably a psychologist would be able to see that more clearly than a judge who's in a hurry to get through her cases.

You are right that I have nothing to fear from the assessment.

The dc are happy, I'm a good parent (all the more so nowadays). I'm doing all the right things to help them settle into their new lives.

An assessment would also be useful in the future if exh decides to push again for 50/50 custody.

It has been very frustrating this year to have so many prople refuse to give their opinion about the dc or exh because they are scared of his reaction (the DC's psychologists, school, social worker, friends..).

It's true that exh HAS tried to say I'm unreliable and a narcissist and I always feel very aware of having to be "super mum" so as not to give him any material to attack me with in court now or further down the line.

I'm thinking that in fact the 2 options are not mutually exclusive.

We could go ahead with the court ordered assessment, knowing that it will take up to a year.

And in the meantime, in the DC's interest, meet (with lawyers) and discuss adding a Saturday overnight on the condition of having up to date medical info about exh.

The court order leaves it open to us to make more generous visits/access possible, I just haven't so far (on the advice of my lawyer) as we have no nee evidence about his mental health and with the appeal pending.

I know that the dc would like to have a proper weekend with their dad, and it's pretty frustrating for 2 teens to have to be up and dressed by 10am on a Saturday and Sunday morning (current situation).

My lawyer says we can just leave the current custody arrangement in place but my worry is that is so restrictive that the boys might come to resent me for it when as far as they are concerned, their dad is ok.

Their friends who have separated parents also often ask them why there are such strict measures in place.
A bit more access

Oops not sure where that last bit came from!

It's true they aren't mutually exclusive.

I think offering Saturday overnights as an interim measure provided he gives up to date medical information is a good compromise. If/when Ex is hostile about providing it then you can simply say "but you need to provide it to the court else contact will never change" and it shows how bad is paranoia still is.

KOKO

Also, I imagine he planned a holiday with them this summer? Could you say OK, as long as he is with other family members ?
Do the boys know the truth about the real meltdown he had ?
Could you explain that since you have a responsibility to ensure they are safe, & that XH is withholding this info, plus Sam says he is not coping well also. You are obliged to safeguard.
You also had very real reasons for leaving, & they are difficult for teenagers to understand.
Telling them that you would like for them to go for longer if you were sure that he was being a lucid caring responsable parent, & this includes taking his regular daily medicine. He is refraining to give reassurance about this.
What does DH actually do with them on their days with him ?

Your plans sound good. Worth remember G that (much as we would like) we can't control our DC's rractions/feelings. As responsible parents we have to make decisions in their best interests to keep them safe. Toddlers and teens particularly resent this. I doubt your DC will carry it in to adulthood, if for whatever reason arrangements remain unchanged atm.

Reactions.

@RandomMess good points thanks.

@Mix56 about the summer, god knows what exh thinks is going to happen. I guess he was confident about getting overnights through the courts and now will need to rethink.

First 2 weeks in July I am at work anyway and I think he was planning on being at home with the DC so they can come and go during the day as they do currently.

Then in August he was originally planning to go to the same resort as his brother and SIL and family, and I would have been ok with that. But on the phone to me it sounded like he hasn't actually booked anything yet...

@MsPavlichenko excellent point about kids and teens not wanting what's good for them anyway, that made me feel better.

Spoke to soon, got an email from exH (my email filter is working again so I only just saw it) asking if I am willing to be more flexible re: overnights with the upcoming summer holidays.

Obviously I'm not going to reply immediately, will speak to my lawyer again but he has at least taken the initiative of contacting me (although I suspect this is down to "Sam", who I spoke to yesterday and who was urging us both to reach an amicable agreement in the DC's interest).

Why is Sam urging for an amicable agreement rather than ensuring Ex is actually capable of looking after DSs properly and not spiralling into paranoia again and risking harm to them?

I just don't think Sam is capable of staying impartial, he has ex going on and on and on about what he wants, how horrid you are and that there is nothing wrong with him.

Clearly the courts are concerned that his breakdown is not a one of LG and he has failed to provide them with evidence to reassure them, perhaps because there isn't any? Perhaps any evidence would actually state he doesn't take his meds, won't engage in therapy and doesn't recognise the truth of what happened?

I think Sam is a flying monkey for your Ex h and not to be trusted an inch!

Did Ex H know about the Judge proposals re family Psych assessment as a condition for considering his requests for relaxation of the court ordered contact?I

I'm deeply suspicious of ExvH timing, tbh

And yes, Ex hasn't reassured you, Sam, the Judge or anyone that he is taking his meds, getting councelling, doing everything he's told to stay mentally and physically so as to be trusted with your children's safety and wellbeing
Has he.

Definitely write back that the judge has ordered a psych evaluation and access to his medical records. You have not got the qualifications or experience to make that kind of decision.

Only recently Sam was saying XH wasn't coping well, unkempt etc.
He may just want his rôle in this to end ?
You could suggest to him that he has done a lot for both since the start & if he is fed up with being enmeshed he has every right to back off !
ie. This is helping

Remember a week or two ago when same said ex wasn't coping, now he's helping ex get overnights??

It's not up to either of them it's down to you and the courts.

Maybe one overnight a week exclusively at his home residence. One week away, pre-booked with his family, proof to be provided.

Or you say, I'd like to do this when you've provided proof of your mental health currently.

But I'd carry on with the court ordered assessment. Remember you hold all the cards so think about what's best for everyone.

I think "Sam" is concerned for all of this that this process is going to be dragged out for years and years and that all the court cases etc. will take their toll on us.

But I can tell I'm in a better place nowadays because I'm less worried about what he thinks and more focused on what I want in the short and long-term.

I'm going to contact my lawyer to see what we do now and how to reply to ex's email about overnights during the first 2 weeks of the holidays.

Yes, Sam, probably rightly, thinks that if XH has the DC overnight, XH will be happier, the separation process will come to an end. People can move on. However the priority is the DC, not XH.

Sam also knows that kids are old enough to call mum and mum will come to the rescue if the shit hits the fan with their Dad, but that is beside the point. There is no way Jamais wants to take the risk that they are put in that position. Also, without Jamais to take out his frustrations on, does EXH begin to pick on one of the boys if he has longer access? (Sadly, I suspect so.)

Just to reiterate, I thought you had nipped conversations about EXH’s state of being in the bud with Sam. I noticed that you wrote on the 1st of June:
“As an aside "Sam" says exH is doing really badly, hardly sleeping, not working at all (v. bad sign, he's a workaholic), and he sounds totally depressed.

He said to "Sam" that he doesn't understand why I left, that we were happy...“

Why is Sam still reporting this drivel? I have concerns about his investment in his position of go-between.