Divorcing sulking H - will it happen in 2020?

[jamaisjedors]

So this is my FIFTH thread, and no, I'm still not divorced and probably won't be in 2020 as my exH is refusing to sign the initial papers and so this could drag on until 2021 (2 years after our separation) when I can divorce him without his consent.

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Now I am at the stage of entering financial negotiations with exH through lawyers and solicitors plus he has appealed the judge's initial decision so we have to go back to court in mid-February.

Fun start to the New Year which is why, a whole year on, I still need the support and advice of all of those who've been through similar situations or who are just naturally wise !

I have also come a very long way this year.

Leaving a controlling and emotionally/verbally abusive relationship was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Actually NO, the hardest thing I ever did was STAY in that relationship so long in a bid to keep our family together and make it work.

I'd love to think that by sharing this journey on here it might help others who are doubting their strength and capacity to leave - my life is a million times better now although I still have a lot of healing to do.

Just heard from my lawyer and she had hoped we would get the verdict today as we are on a fast-track due to the inital emergency hearing.

But no, it is deferred til 11th June.

Thanks for remembering.

Still not too bad, I would like a decision before the summer because if the DC are going to do overnights I want it to be now during lockdown and not "suddenly" on a 2 week holiday.

June means that we can start "trying out" overnights at weekends before the holidays in the summer.

I am still totally torn about what is best for the DC.

Some days the whole situation seems ridiculous, it's been a year since exH's stint in the psychiatric unit and to all intents and purposes he's "back to normal". So perhaps it's time to move on for everyone and start overnights and proper weekends etc. They have been going once a week since lockdown and are happy with that but would still like to do overnights.

OTOH, then I start reading about paranoid personality disorder (which is what I think exH has and which went extreme in May last year when he had the psychotic episode). And then I think that exH is probably still not that stable, and that it would be risky to make any changes.

Of course exH has still not provided any evidence to his mental state.

The initial decision recommended the current measures (day time visits only) for a year.

It's been a year now.

Anyway, I'll talk it all over with my lawyer in June I guess depending on what the appeal decision is.

I can "up" the contact at any time according to the present decision but don't want to until we know what the result of the appeal is.

After that we can sit down with the lawyers and try to agree on a more long-term solution which works for everyone and is not under review all the time.

My lawyer thinks that we will offer an overall package of finances, custody AND signing the initial divorce papers to try to get things moving after the end of the appeal.

Disappointing you're having to wait another 2 months for a ruling. I can see it is tempting to start allowing overnights - however I would hang on before you do. Once you have allowed overnights informally - there will be no going back, especially as your ex hasn't provided an up to date psychiatric report which I think was requested by the court.

I would explain to your boys about the court decision being delayed so they are aware. The eldest must be nearly 16 - will that make a difference to his ability to decide to spend overnights with his father?

Oh balls. I suppose the delay not surprising under the circumstances, but it certainly would be better sooner.
Does he ever reassure you/Sam he takes his meds ? He is possibly on a long term treatment, if he doesn't follow the instructions (& with his sort of "character" he may decide he knows best) there is a bigger chance he will rechute

Cannot think of the word in English !

i wonder if they think he could crack under the lockdown pressure and want to err on the side of caution

I don't think I've commented so far but I have been following since the first thread.
Fwiw I really think you need to insist on knowing what his diagnosis is, and on having an up to date assessment of his current mental health before making any decisions to increase contact.
Have the court not insisted on this to aid them making their decision about future levels of contact between him and the boys?
Without the medical information, and the reassurance that could provide that he is likely to remain stable, increasing the contact seems so risky. Apologies if this sounds alarmist, but in the worst scenario, your boys could be in grave danger from him.

Hi jamais

Someone posted a link to your first thread and I read the whole lot. You've handled this whole situation with such dignity and resilience it is both remarkable and admirable.

I found it quite emotional as my sister has a personality disorder and has had several acute psychotic episodes. Her partner had to ask her to leave in the end as like your exH her behaviours were extremely cruel and often threatening. Her lies and her manipulation are astounding and it has taken me time to process everything and move from righteous indignation to accepting that lots of people do believe she is the victim she portrays herself to be, and that that doesn't matter because I know the truth and have seen it with my own eyes. What matters is that I've moved on, am reconnecting with my life after going no contact with her. Obviously her ex partner is finding this a much longer journey.

I think you've been an inspiration to many. I'm sorry to see that the virus has caused you delay issues. Some wonderful posters on here offer great advice, I don't have much to offer because you handled everything much better than I could! I did notice you said earlier this year you find yourself clenching your teeth. This is a legacy I too am left with so much so that I now wear a mouthguard at night (sexy I know). The orthodontist who made it also clenched and recommends this simple trick. Purse your lips together tightly, fill your cheeks absolutely full of air until you look like a ridiculous blowfish and then push it out of your lips in one short blast, it makes sort of a pfffft noise. It forces your back teeth apart and makes you release the tension in your face. I've found it very effective and I hope you do too.

@Mix56 I think "rechute" would be relapse.

And @NettleTea I don't know whether the courts are worried about a relapse but I certainly always have at the back of my mind that the current situation has the potential to tip exh back over the edge.

In some ways his delusions last May about it being the "end of the world" and the apocalype could almost seem predictive now if your mind was inclined to work that way !

@MadinMarch re an assessment of exh's mental health - we (with my lawyer) originally asked for one last August at the first custody hearing. The judge explained at the time that it was almost impossible to find "experts" as it is a long process and badly paid. She said we could be waiting over a year for an assessment.

I think she did the pragmatic thing of restricting exH's access to a "safe" level to protect the dc but also not cutting off their contact while we waited for an assessment (which she decided not to ask for).

She mentioned that she had seen lots of parents who had been waiting for years for an assessment and in the meantime their relationship with their DC is totally destroyed. That is not what I want at all.

In the appeal hearing in February, my lawyer's main argument was also that the judge should be very cautious about upping visiting/custody in the absence of any clear psychiatric report or new medical information.

All EXH provided were a couple of prescriptions from 2 different psychiatrists. We pointed out we have no way of knowing whether he is even taking that medication and whether there are other prescriptions for different drugs.

We'll see what the court say in June now.

I feel sad for the DC because perhaps their father is fine now (if we leave aside the probably underlying paranoid personality disorder) and functioning (he's been back at work since September and I've not heard reports of any problems).

In which case, it would be a lot better for the DC if they could at least spend a Saturday night at their dad's and have a "normal" weekend with him.

I keep wondering whether to ask exH for an update on his condition now that it's been a year since his breakdown.

But really it's up to him to provide that information and to be forthcoming.

It's frustrating that he isn't, but that would mean
a) accepting that he had a problem in the first place
b) dropping the victim mentality of "jamais is stopping me seeing the kids"

@ToPlanZ - thanks for your kind words and sharing your story too.

Your tip about blowing out my cheeks is fabulous, I've been trying it and it really works!

This weekend I've started with an online yoga class, had a leisurely breakfast, and this afternoon I have an online appointment with my psychologist.

I have also signed up for an online (but local) MBSR (Mindfullness based stress reduction) course.

It seems quite full-on (8 weeks, 2-3hr sessions every week plus 45 mins practice a day) but I think there will never be a better time to do it than now !

Have a great weekend.

Oh jamais I wish you well. KOKO

@jamaisjedors
Thank you for your reply. What a difficult position for you all to be in.
I really wonder how the court makes decisions about future contact without the benefit of a medical diagnosis and expert view and current assessment of his mental health and therefore the risk (if any) he poses.
It is what it is I suppose,and you can only work within the Court's recommendations etc.I guess he won't provide any update to you or the Court unless it can potentially work in his favour.
You've done so incredibly well to come this far and manage an incredibly tricky situation so well, for your boys and for yourself. Wishing you strength and patience, and happiness, for the future.

But really it's up to him to provide that information and to be forthcoming.

And when he doesn’t, that is in itself information.

It leaves you/future judges in a position where two of your main bits of information are: the time that has elapsed since his breakdown, and the fact that he has made the choice not to provide any evidence of his mental stability.

It’s really quite a gamble on his part to assume that one will outweigh the other.

Hope your course is useful Jamais.

Thanks.

Started my mbsr course last night and I do think it will be useful.

Something popped up which made me realise I've come a long way but still have work to do...

We did an exercise exploring our motivations to do the course.

My "on the surface" motivation was to enjoy life more and be more present.

But then as I went deeper the feeling that "I'm not good enough as I am and need to improve myself to be lovable " as well as a lot of fear bubbled up.

This is obviously why in the relationship with exh I allowed him to treat me as if I wasn't good enough because deep down i believed he was right.

I kind of thought i had made progress on that one this year but its it's obviously still there...

On a lighter note, this should make some of you laugh, exh has contacted me about taxes (income tax declaration time at the moment here).

He has just realised that he is going to take a huge jump in taxes as a single person with no dependants whereas i will pay very little.

So his suggestion after talking to the tax advisor is that we declare a child each for last year, as that would be "fair"

I actually laughed out loud last night when I read his email!

His delusions know no limits!

I've been online and calculated what that would mean, just for a laugh (bank holiday at home alone in lockdown).

He stands to gain around 1500€ and I would lose over 2000€ as it also impacts other local taxes.

Hmmm...

I replied very briefly this morning to address other things re kids in the email and then said I was puzzled by his proposal, could he explain exactly how he felt this proposal was "fair"?

I can hear mn in my head saying "dont engage" so I restrained myself from a rant!

I am only dying to hear how he justifies that request re tax. I'll bet he wasn't expecting such an even and well thought out response. Has he had the kids half, even a quarter of the year - didn't think so. He is now turning into a CF on top of everything else. Well played Jamais.

For some reason your threads never stay on my watches or I'm on list grrrr

Glad things are ok.

That course sounds really good

It's a tough one about the o/night contact, I think EOW sound perfectly reasonable but when it starts creeping into longer lengths of time I just wonder how healthy his behaviour would be... boys ending up tip toeing around him, having to hear rants about you etc

The nerve of asking to declare a child each 🙄

You really should say
Just so I understand correctly, are you asking me to aid you in committing fraud?

@cstaff
Has he had the kids half, even a quarter of the year

I think he thinks I only had them 3 months as that's all the msjntrnsve hd paid and can offset against tax.

He only legally had to pay that but as he wants separate finances from early May (for the separation of assets from that point), I asked him to therefore backdated maintenance and his occupation of the family home to then.

So far he has refused, so I was fully financially responsible for the dc, plus rent etc on my new house from May to end September without any help from him.

I am also very curious to hear his logic as it might help in understanding his position for thd negotiation over assets - the main sticking point there is the date our finances become separate.

@RandomMess I think the threads drop off "watched" after a certain amount of time.. I have lost my own threads before!

Re custody and overnights, I chatted to SIL last night and explained the situation.

She thought that after a year the judge's decision was no longer valid but I explained thst exh has provided no evidence as to his mental health so far and that it's up to him to do so, not up to me to chase him up.

She understood my position I think.

He still bonkers (sorry has disordered thinking) then isn't he.

Thinks the rules don't apply to him and you're not entitled to a financial fair share despite marriage and raising the boys...

@VettiyaIruken

are you asking me to aid you in committing fraud?

He says the tax office said it was possible if we both agreed and got it in writing between us.

I suspect that is true because they told me the same about me declaring income from a property in HIS name.

I benefited from that income from January to May (joint account), so until our separation.

Legally only exh pays tax on that income but I suggested that it would be fairer if I declared half of the income for those 5 months.

The tax office told me we could agree to do that if we got it in writing.

However as I technically WAS a single parent for 8 months of last year, I dont see why I shouldn't get a tax break out of it, seeing as as I said, for 5 months I was a single parent with NO support from him and he was living in our joint house for free with the bills already paid.

Sorry I think he thinks I only had them 3 months as that's all the msjntrnsve hd paid and can offset against tax.

I think he thinks I only had them 3 months as that's all the maintenance he paid..."

I think the Tax Office was assuming that it's a 50:50 custody case - otherwise they would be assisting him in claiming a tax allowance for caring for a child that he is not. Which no Civil Servant would want to encourage - and it could bolster his claim for residence

'Well, Jamais agreed with me that I am entitled to claim tax relief for 50% of the children, so that shows she really agrees that I should have them 50% of the time - unless she's actually done this to try and get me into trouble with the Tax Office for fraud, which shows her true malevolence towards me...'

Ooh @MitziK it did occur to me last night that this could be an argument trotted out in court in the future but I thought I was becoming paranoid!

Surely the response is...... "No"
You have had financial responsibility, he hasn't had them overnight for ages.
The tax relief is yours.

It would seem to be a good opportunity to ask him to agree a date which will apply to all financial separations - tax relief, child maintenance etc

@LannieDuck exactly my thoughts.

He never answered my lawyers letter in January which made a proposal which was a compromise which meant we could move forward.

I was thinking of saying its impossible to make financial agreements about taxes when we haven't yet settled up the joint accounts and agreed on a date to separate assets.

Just written to my lawyer after going back and forth over this for a few days (far too long I know !).

It was really getting me down over the weekend and I started feeling so trapped again by the whole situation.

Of course I know I CAN say NO to him but instinctively I'm afraid to.

I'm not sure how much of this is logical (he will probably get nasty again in the financial negotiations if I do) and how much of this is a hangover from always being scared of him deep down.

I'm stalling a bit on my mindfullness course, over the weekend I did a body scan exercise and just started sobbing and feeling trapped and suffocated and also when the scan got to lower abdomen and sexual organs I had a real flashback to last year when we were on holiday and he basically coerced me into sex twice (and tried a 3rd time).

The instructor did warn us that some stuff might come up but I though I was at enough of a distance from things to be able to deal with it now.

Just shows how much is still lurking under the surface..

Feeling better now though and might give it another try tonight.