Divorcing sulking H - will it happen in 2020?

[jamaisjedors]

So this is my FIFTH thread, and no, I'm still not divorced and probably won't be in 2020 as my exH is refusing to sign the initial papers and so this could drag on until 2021 (2 years after our separation) when I can divorce him without his consent.

First thread from December 2019 after my H ruined my birthday weekend (and 1st anniversay of my dad's death) by giving me the silent treatment all weekend to "punish me" for not being grateful enough for him coming away and buying me a present and a card.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3448545-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking?msgid=84022238

Thanks to some amazing posters I realised that H's behaviour (which was not at all a one-off) was abusive and unacceptable.

I prepared to leave him and got plans in place but got "hoovered" back in by H with promises of joint counselling, individual counselling for him, and regular "date nights". Unfortunately none of that changed the dynamic in our relationship : 2nd thread :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3498886-Confronting-DH-about-his-sulking-part2?msgid=85957683

I started a 3rd thread in May when H and I had decided to separate :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3580872-LEAVING-sulking-H?msgid=88239005

and that's when things got nightmarish.

As everyone on here pointed out, the most dangerous time for women is when they decide to leave an abusive partner.

In a nutshell, H went missing, had an acute psychotic episode, was admitted to a psychiatric facility and is still in there now.

Staff at the hospital warned me H could be dangerous for me and advised me to move out asap which I did, in fear for my life.

Fourth thread :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/a3637219-DIVORCING-sulking-H?msgid=92845754#92845754

saw me going to court to safeguard the DC through a request for full custody with limited visiting rights.

With the help of my great lawyer we got the decision we wanted from the judge but the battle never ends over every little thing - schools, activities, money...

Now I am at the stage of entering financial negotiations with exH through lawyers and solicitors plus he has appealed the judge's initial decision so we have to go back to court in mid-February.

Fun start to the New Year which is why, a whole year on, I still need the support and advice of all of those who've been through similar situations or who are just naturally wise !

I have also come a very long way this year.

Leaving a controlling and emotionally/verbally abusive relationship was the hardest thing I've ever done.

Actually NO, the hardest thing I ever did was STAY in that relationship so long in a bid to keep our family together and make it work.

I'd love to think that by sharing this journey on here it might help others who are doubting their strength and capacity to leave - my life is a million times better now although I still have a lot of healing to do.

@Wallywobbles - it's more that I'm curious about the French system; as much as I love the county, it's wine and it's baking, there's a lot that seems very strange about how France actually works (or not...often causing mass transit chaos). Children wanting to see their dad isn't remotely strange to me, the possibility that a court could still be setting an enforceable schedule for a 16yo otoh is very strange.

I think in this situation Jamais needed the court to protect the kids from the husbands delusional behavior.

My experience of family court here in France has been pretty positive. I've had a lot of experience unfortunately. I'd say their one fault is a tendency to want to give too many chances. My Dds have been given court awarded lawyers twice who have done a good job. My eldest DD wants to be a lawyer following her experience so a good sign.

Feel free to ask me questions about it. A lot of what happens in the UK seems pretty odd sometimes from this side of the Chanel.

That life isn't worth living without love

I really wouldn't send him an email confirming that he doesn't have that whilst he has your DC with him.

I think 'Received and noted', perhaps with reference to holidays 'We can discuss arrangements for the summer in due course' is the safest and least inflammatory response.

Everything else will upset, enrage, require lengthy bullshit correction on his part, trigger, give hope to or simply invite further unnecessary engagement on his part.

@FishingPaws just to clarify (having looked it up), the court custody arrangements are enforceable until the DC are 18.

Generally the system seems not too bad but one thing which I think is bad is that :

• the NRP is not obliged to take his/her DC on the agreed times or dates and there is no "punishment" for this. This leaves the Resident parent open to abuse like the NRP not turning up at all and then having childcare problems or not being able to go away on planned dates.
• the RP IS obliged to "hand over" the DC to the NRP on the agreed dates. If they don't (or the children won't), the NRP can call the police and the resident parent can be fined.

This is actually why I absolutely needed a watertight arrangement in place with the DC.

If for example we just had a verbal agreement between ourselves, I would have no right to go and pick the kids up if their dad had another breakdown or just started "acting weird".

Or if we had a more generous custody arrangement (more access for exH), again I am risk of violating the agreement and the police being called on me if the DC asked to come home early or there was a problem.

I saw exh's "performance" in the emergency psychiatric unit where he initially managed to convince them he was absolutely fine, whilst in the middle of a serious psychotic episode.

So I have no doubt that even if he started to behave oddly, he would
a) call the police on me
b) be able to convince the police that he was perfectly fine and I was in the wrong

As @Wallywobbles says, my DC DO want to see their dad. I would love them to be able to see him more but allowing any extra access now could set a precedent in court and I still have no clear idea about how his mental health is.

We were back in court in February as exH appealed the intial judge's decision about custody (and maintenance).

I think we will still get the decision on the 30th April as planned, as the hearing has taken place, and the decision is in writing and sent directly to the lawyer's (barristers). The courts are closed but I am assuming the judge makes her decision alone and if anything, will have more time to read through the written conclusions/evidence.

@jamaisjedors - Thanks for answering. Enforceable up to 18...there are so many ways that could be severely damaging to a child's relationship with the resident parent, if not completely destructive (not in your situation, just in general).

I hope you get a resolution on the 30th, at least then you'll know where you stand - at least for a while.

Of course nothing is ever final, if the kids said they didn't want to go anymore for example, they could ask to see the judge and ask for a change in the custody order.

A friend of mine went through this, his 3rd DC temporarily did not want to see him anymore and they went back to court to make it official so that it wasn't then used against him - and also to up maintenance to his ex-wife as she was having one of the DC more often.

I haven't got the DC involved so far in the judge's decision, despite their father's best efforts, because for me the current custody arrangements are for medical reasons.

If in the future exH is able to prove his mental health is stable AND the DC want to up the visits (i know they would like to do overnights as it's very restrictive having to come home at 9PM and then get up to go at 10am the next morning), then we can try to agree on something that works.

If we can't agree, it'll be back to court.

TBH with the way exH is, veering from extremely reasonable to downright agressive and paranoid, I think the only way forward will be a strict custody arrangement which noboby messes with.

That is what we have right now and it takes a lot of the stress off the DC as it limits interaction between the parents and no decisions have to be made.

BTW, I replied to exH's email today. It has been a week and I think leaving it longer than a week looks malicious or "stringing it out".

I have copied and pasted my email from January which was already pretty much what we said on the thread.

I have said that we don't share the same point of view about the difficulties in our relationship.

I have pointed out that this is my 4th reply on the subject of reconciliation and that it is not appropriate to contact me anymore about this - that if he needs to talk he should talk to friends or a professional.

I also said that his underlying hostility to me during our marriage had intensified during the separation and has lead to a very long drawn-out and conflictual legal procedure.

That our priority now is to reach agreement over the kids and other affairs.

I mentioned that plans for the summer cannot be finalised in the current situation.

Then I wished him and his family well (over here everyone is being a lot more "touchy-feely" since the whole COVID19 crisis) so I didn't want to sign off too harshly.

Glad that is sent off now, am going to do some yoga and have a beer (in that order !) and I can now forget about it and also ignore any future emails with a clear conscience.

Also if any of our friends try to pressure me about "talking to him", I will be able to say that I have been absolutely clear in 4 emails now and there is nothing more to say.

Thanks again to everyone for all the advice, both about the email and also about generally protecting myself and giving him less headspace.

I am meditating 10-15 mins a day during lockdown (nearly 3 weeks here !) and that is definitely helping. Plus daily yoga with Adriene on youtube.

Is it worth preempting those flying monkeys with what you've said and asking them not to discuss it with you
Eg
Hi Sam, ex emailed again last week regarding a reconciliation. I just wanted you to know that I've replied kindly four times about this and have now asked him not to mention this to me again. Obviously happy for him to talk it out with friends but if he does bring it up I'd be grateful if you didn't mention it to me.

Very good idea, was going to ring Sam soon anyway. Thanks!

I was going to ask if friends (especially Sam) had upped the ante also

Well done Jamais that’s a perfect response because it spelt out boundaries to him and made you feel clearer.

I doubt he will respect those boundaries but as long as you expect him to come back with further nonsense and are defending them you will be ahead. It’s like taming a toddler.

Distance and detaching allows space for you to get perspective to see that you can manage this and respond rather than react.

Efficient, decisive, superficial, non-emotive, breezy, receptionist on repeat (computer says No) is the style that will work. Like swatting away a wasp!

You are doing great and I bet you can see this is the emotional growth of your DCs as your RS with them strengthens.

How are things, jamais? Hope you are okay and exH took your email on board.

Hi, all fine here for the moment, thank you.

No reply from exH about my email (got what I asked for!).

I called "Sam" who had heard from exH on the day I sent my email reply - but exH did not discuss any of this with Sam at all.

Not a coincidence though that he called Sam that day, but possibly a good thing if he is reaching out to friends.

I told Sam the contents of exH's email and also my email.

He asked if exH had referred to his own behaviour in the email and I said he hadn't.

Sam's wife was listening in on the call (we are all friends) and said quite firmly that I was not to feel guilty about exH.

I explained that this was the 4th email and that I had been polite but firm about him not contacting me again about his emotions and also that I suggested he spoke to friends or a counsellor.

They were supportive of me and said I had done the right thing - and agreed that I didn't need to answer further emails on this subject.

We had a nice chat about other stuff too and I am glad I talked to them about it as they are so close to the situation - and I have potentially disabled some flying monkeys too !

The Dc have been spending days with exH this week (first week of our holidays) and there is nothing in particular to report, they seem to be doing jobs around the house and games etc. so all fine.

We are on lockdown now til 11th May minimum but I am not too dismayed for the moment.

To be honest the DC going out for the day and coming back at 9pm is working well for me during this period.

I can have a bit of peace and get some work done but get the pleasure of the seeing them in the evenings.

I can't go anywhere anyway so the "curfew" of 9pm and no overnights is not "holding me back".

Also in an uncertain period I am still concerned that exh's mental health may not be stable so it is reassuring to have the DC home every night.

Thank goodness you're not locked down with him!

That all sounds very positive. Keep strong.

Is the next court hearing postponed ?

@Mix56 we had the appeal hearing in February, now waiting for the judge's decision which is notified through my lawyer.

I dont see why it should be delayed, she has the file and will be judging based on that and the very brief hearing.

I still ask my lawyer next week if there are hold ups or not with decisions.

Tbh if exh is going to start having the dc overnight, lockdown is the best time for it.

Our worry previously was that if he had the dc overnight he could then travel with them and so if there was any problem, they would be far away and not near anyone able to help out.

Also I would have to be "on call" ie with my phone on me and on at all times in case they needed me.

Now we are all at home anyway, if the dc are with their dad, if he has another psychotic episode or tries to commit suicide, they know the neighbours, they have friends in the village, and I am 10 min away.

Not that I'm thinking that exposing them to that kind of incident is at all acceptable - it's what I've been trying to protect them from all along.

But we are nearly a year on, and I have to weigh up the risk of it happening vs their relationship with their father.

I now believe the dc would be better off with me most of the time (not 50/50 custody) but if they can spend proper weekends with their father now I think they would like that if it is safe.

You are brilliant ! I thought there was a date of around the 22/4, but may have made it up !

Just a decision on the 30th in theory.

I assume X doesn't have any weapons of any sort - firearm etc and these can't be got easily in France?

A lot of french men have a shot gun, hunting is/was big not that long ago. Where I live, any man over 40 will most likely have guns

No, no weapons, he's an academic not a hunter!

I didn't think he would have, although he could have kept his father's

Hoping you get the verdict you are hoping for today. Fingers crossed

yes fingers crossed here too