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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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To terminate/put up for adoption because of abusive ex-husband

999 replies

RainMinusBow · 28/12/2019 12:53

Currently 18 weeks' pregnant (much wanted) with fiancé but abusive ex making my life hell. He has 50:50 of our two boys (court enforced) despite years of abuse and coercive control. It still continues and has got a lot worse since he's found out I'm pregnant. Has told our children that the baby is going to be "born a retard" (because of my age) and that boys should just hope and wish that the baby dies. The boys come home "pretending" to stab me and thump me in the stomach.

Ex called today (via son) calling me a pervert and a psycho because I am pregnant.

The abuse never stops.

Nobody helps me.

The only way I can realistically minimise the abuse is to let this baby go. I know it would break my fiancé (his only chance at fatherhood and I'm 39 now) but I can't live like this.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 25/04/2020 01:38

Loads of people have given fabulous advice about support and coercive control and a whole bunch of stuff which is brilliant.

Can I give you my one little bit of advice. This is going to sound utterly shit compared to all the big stuff but you will beat him. You are a good mum, you've come through the odds, you've found a nice man, and you are having a baby. At 39 (I had my baby at 39 too).

Do everything you can to minimize the contact with him, to record the contact and then, in your head, let it go. It's NOT easy but whenever you succeed and focus on the good stuff, whenever you build moments of connection and joy with the boys, whenever you find peace with your DP, every single time you do that you win.

One of my children is adopted and before we adopted him I watched this movie, it's all about adoption, it's called Meet the Robinsons. There is an amazing song in it called 'Small Wonders.'

Just to clarify, I don't mean you don't fight tooth and nail for your kids, for your sanity, for your freedom, I don't mean you give up or give in, I mean you find a bit of peace amid all this!

You have your moment with strong tea and good telly (and cushions) and you do not let that evil bastard rob you of anything further.

Italiangreyhound · 25/04/2020 01:40

OK, no fancy cushions but you can stuff a lot of soft clothing into a pillow case and make a very good cushion that way,

I did it when camping! You gotta get the comfort where you can! Thanks

RandomMess · 25/04/2020 09:34

If coercive control is now a crime (which it is) and the police refuse to take it seriously I would write to your MP and ask them to investigate why the police are ignoring it. When MPs ask questions the authorities have to respond.

MaraScottie · 25/04/2020 09:39

My heart breaks for you OP. What a piece of work your ex is. Evil is a word I'd use here. I hope what comes around goes around and he gets his dues.

Stay strong, you're amazing.

Vodkacranberryplease · 25/04/2020 10:35

Well this is really quite something. I had a business partner who was about 50% as bad but reading this brought all that flooding back. You must be utterly broken. The healing only begins when you are believed and there's no contact, but he's relentless. Apologies if this had been said but your ex is a pure psychopath and this is going to be very difficult to beat - but can be done.

However coercive control is a tough one because you no longer live with him. You have verbal abuse and malicious court cases - difficult to prove and not quite crimes and him making life difficult for others and corrupting your son - difficult to prove and not quite crimes. He's good at the 'difficult to prove not quite crimes' and his 50/50 custody gives him the money to make life very unpleasant.
So this is definitely going to take a superior strategy - starting with no contact except via a third party. I would suggest his gf if she's long term.

Brainwashed though she is if you are reasonable and pleasant, keep it short and relevant there's little she can do and she's not him. Apologies as I haven't read the thread (I had to stop it's pretty upsetting and I'm just so sad and angry for you) Sad so I hope I'm not saying anything irrelevant. The important thing is no direct contact at all. He does not have your number - though I have money on it he will create an 'emergency' to make you pay for not being available,

But I think the worst thing is the constant trail of people who believe him and give in. By now you're almost certainly presenting as un believable - it's what happens - and so you need to keep all the proof. In the end I didn't win though because I had that proof (though I did get a couple of allies who at least believed me).

You need someone ON YOUR SIDE who can tell you what his crimes ARE. And they do exist. All that stuff he's said about the baby etc. And then to explain what you say and how you say it and to whom - I've found they don't want emotion but when there is a rule broken.. bam. That kind of ruthlessness and rule following can be found in social services or some of the non mainstream DV help, so arm yourself with a list of events (timeline) bullet pointed with examples and start talking to people about finding someone that can help you for free. Don't talk about him. Talk about what he's done and what happened (learned the hard way). People SLWAYS want to see things for themselves 🙄 and so they need to be in between you and him so they get the brunt of it (my ex biz partner had people he didn't bother charming. Once my allies were in that camp it was game over for him. The mask dropped). Never underestimate his arrogance, which is a major weakness.

He's got away with a lot - no division of family assets for example. He's got 50/50 custody and continues to make life unbearable. So he's clearly articulate and coming across as competent. You need to do the same - hard when you're heavily pregnant and ground down.

I know a woman with an ex like yours. I remember her telling me her story and she won by getting her very own psychopath on side who took her ex apart just for his own entertainment. There's no way she could have done it - but she was smart. She found the right person, got them on side, and they just went for it. She got money, ex out of the way, and peace/happiness. The psychopath knew how he thought and where his weaknesses were. She was a lamb to the slaughter on her own.

We are all in lockdown so maybe trawl here and online and even make some calls. Pitch it as 'this man had managed to defeat everyone' and see who rises to the challenge. You need someone on your side who has what you don't - strength, balls (sorry, that's not an insult - but I don't see you telling him to fuck off and sending him harassing texts) and a willingness to do anything to win while you stand back and give them ammo in the form of proof. And who wants to win and fuck this guy over.

Use this time to find that person (or people). Not the police btw. Or probably anyone in the public services. They are too rule bound and not creative enough. Not someone you have to pay up front. but at the very least you are entitled to half the house, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise though I'm sure he 'proved' he had 'nothing'. But omfg courts hate that stuff - so if you go anywhere near a hearing inserting a line about the assets vanishing will get attention.

The good thing about psychopaths is they are predictable. They all do the same shit whether they are nasty, businessman exes, or serial killers. There ARE people that see through that you know. I thought after 11 years with the business partner there weren't - but there are. Big hugs, get another phone for friends and family and turn his one off forever, and write that timeline out. Then find those people who are in it because they fucking hate pricks like him and who will do it just because.

I got mine out of my life and you can get yours out - but only if you radically change tack. Good luck and big hugs x

Vodkacranberryplease · 25/04/2020 10:41

Oh and by the way it sounds like I didn't win.. I did. Twice. He got voted off the board (myself and my ally after he saw it for himself and I took legal advice and worked out exactly what grounds to base it on) and a second time in employment court. He's about to get fucked over a third time. It can be done but you have to have someone who knows how.

RainMinusBow · 25/04/2020 11:00

@Vodkacranberryplease Thank you so much for your suppport and advice, much appreciated.

I have tried my hardest to avoid all direct contact but he refuses to engage or cooperate with any third party. This includes my parents or my fiancé. He cites that the Court Order is strictly between parents and "nothing to do with anyone else." For example, he will only ever release children if I am physically present. This will be the same even when my newborn is here.

As for his gf...she is 18 years his junior and doesn't appear to have a great deal to do with the boys. This seems to suit them both. She doesn't work but doesn't ever take them to school or anything like that. She has never attended any school events, she doesn't help them with homework etc. In fact, until this all kicked off I had never even met her in four years.

I'm trying not to judge here - we are all different and if this works for them then that's great - but the relationship I have with my OH is very different and ex cannot accept that. For our family, fiancé does do a lot for the kids. He takes eldest to school every day so I can get to work, he goes hiking with eldest, he helps youngest with his spellings. OH attends parents evenings with me on my request - meetings are separate to ex but I am still very frightened of being around him on my own - he tells school he does not want my partner to join me in the consultation.

My ex will not accept that my fiancé will always be a part of the boys' lives because I am pregnant with their half-sister!! He has even told them that the unborn baby is "not related to them."

So as much as I agree that third party involvement would be beneficial for everyone, ex will not engage with this either.

OP posts:
whatdayisitandotherquestions · 25/04/2020 11:12

He sounds utterly exhausting.

I wo der, what would happen if your parents or OH brought the DC to drop off, would he refuse to take them? If so surely that's him going against the order, not you?

RainMinusBow · 25/04/2020 11:20

@whatdayisitandotherquestions He would take them but he would threaten me with "breach of order".

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Italiangreyhound · 25/04/2020 11:24

@Vodkacranberryplease excellent post.

I did wonder about a no win no fee lawyer? To get the shared assets. I didwonder if there are a lot if people out there willing to work on a no win no fee basis?

Italiangreyhound · 25/04/2020 11:26

And get your boys on side. Is it fair he ended up with th 5 bed house? If you push, you will get push back. I'd take advice how to talk to the boys. Take control of the narrative your side.

RandomMess · 25/04/2020 11:27

Let him threaten "breach of order" for someone else dropping them off.

How stupid would he look in court with that?

whatdayisitandotherquestions · 25/04/2020 11:28

But is it a "breach of order" in reality? Have the courts said it must be you who hands them over? If not then if he tries to do you for breach of order wouldn't it reflect badly on him not you?

Italiangreyhound · 25/04/2020 11:29

"He cites that the Court Order is strictly between parents and "nothing to do with anyone else." For example, he will only ever release children if I am physically present. This will be the same even when my newborn is here."

It sounds like he isvtruong yo use the law to stalk you. It's coercive to demand a person's presence.

Is he seeing the boys now during lockdown and expecting you as a pregnant woman to go out and risk catching Civic 19? He sounds like an utter arse. Do the boys understand that making you have contact with him is wrong?

RainMinusBow · 25/04/2020 11:35

The Order wording refers to something like "Returned to the care of the other parent." He argues this is me so I must be present.

OP posts:
Italiangreyhound · 25/04/2020 11:36

Have you tried your MP? Dies any One with experience of involving third parties think MPs can help.

Italiangreyhound · 25/04/2020 11:37

Do you speak when you see him? Do you to speak or just be be physically present?

What does he say, is he intimidating?

I'd buy a little body cam and record every second of interactions with him, every word.

RandomMess · 25/04/2020 11:38

He is deliberately misinterpreting it, he will get nowhere using that against you.

It actually says "the care of..,"
Deliberately instead of "the other parent" so you can send appropriate representatives.

Just stop going, don't tell him, don't discuss it with him, just do it.

Gutterton · 25/04/2020 11:47

vodkacranberryplease v powerful and well done. I agree that it needs a really different level of skill here. How did you find your good psycho - were they a lawyer? How would you suggest Rain finds someone like that? Because I agree - you need a big hitter with a clever strategy who can play him at his own game - well worth the investment to flush him out once and for all.

Rian you can work through a protective communication approach. You can have a 3rd party filtering, censoring, responding and filing any messages to you on your phone or email. He doesn’t need to know it’s not you. This is to stop him inflicting another deep wound on you. You can do this and it is your responsibility to do so because when he hurts you, he hurts your unborn baby directly and your sons indirectly.

Can you disengage from his calls / texts etc - even for a week. Can you hand this over to a friend?

RainMinusBow · 25/04/2020 11:50

@RandomMess I don't really drop off as he collects from mine to get boys and I collect from his.
We have to now lock the back gate when he is due (we've added extra locks) as in the past he has trespassed into our back garden, banged on the door and stood in the decking throwing abuse (kids present). He still rattles the back gate every time he comes to collect but at least he can't get in. He also is well aware of the fact we have an elderly rescue dog and live right next to an incredibly busy main road - she would venture out given the opportunity.

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Lolapusht · 25/04/2020 11:51

Agree with pp re the court order wording. “Returned to the care” can be interpreted to mean they have to be given back into your care which could be done by anyone, as long as they end up in the care of the other parent. Does he drop them off to you or does he expect you to collect them? By his reasoning ie only you can look after them, they shouldn’t be going to school or have anyone other than you looking after them. You can decide who looks after them and still have “care” of them. Please don’t do drop offs/collections just after you’ve had your baby. If he doesn’t hand them back after his contact time you call the police because he is in breach of the court order. 9.05am! Call the police, EVERY TIME. Have you asked your solicitor for their interpretation of the court order wording re a third party collecting/dropping off? You have amazing strength OP.

Lolapusht · 25/04/2020 11:53

Have you got a Ring doorbell? If he’s usually abusive when he sees you then it can record the interactions. If he sees it and doesn’t do anything worth recording, at least you don’t have to deal with his sh*t.

RainMinusBow · 25/04/2020 12:03

@Lolapusht I did wonder about those but not sure how much they cost? Money is tight atm as got to keep paying ridiculous legal fees and of course on mat leave before long.

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Elephantgrey · 25/04/2020 12:10

I am sorry you have had such a tough night. Flowers The police response has been truly shocking. I would definitely complain to your MP as they have let you down.

I agree with other posters that your ex is deliberately misinterpreting the court order to force you to see him. I would ask the judge to change it so you don’t have to have contact with him. This should also make the judge see what a twat he is and have more sympathy with you.

I don’t agree that therapy will be helpful to you as you are stressed for a reason.

RainMinusBow · 25/04/2020 12:15

@Elephantgrey Thank you. I think I managed about four hours so better than some nights! I came up to bed around 4 am and still here, don't see the point in getting up tbh!!

Therapy was sort of helpful to a small degree but as long as the powers that be allow him to abuse he will simply continue to do so.

OP posts: