To terminate/put up for adoption because of abusive ex-husband

[RainMinusBow]

Currently 18 weeks' pregnant (much wanted) with fiancé but abusive ex making my life hell. He has 50:50 of our two boys (court enforced) despite years of abuse and coercive control. It still continues and has got a lot worse since he's found out I'm pregnant. Has told our children that the baby is going to be "born a retard" (because of my age) and that boys should just hope and wish that the baby dies. The boys come home "pretending" to stab me and thump me in the stomach.

Ex called today (via son) calling me a pervert and a psycho because I am pregnant.

The abuse never stops.

Nobody helps me.

The only way I can realistically minimise the abuse is to let this baby go. I know it would break my fiancé (his only chance at fatherhood and I'm 39 now) but I can't live like this.

[RandomMess]

That was just an example though, take the principle and apply it to the things ex has said to him.

State the truth of why you left - he hurt you by saying cruel and unkind things, he wouldn't let me have friends and he told me what to do and say and think all the time...

[RainMinusBow]

@RandomMess But the thing is he knows I couldn't have. His dad only ever wanted two children and as soon as youngest was born that was it, no more. There was no discussion, just like everything else in our marriage.

Our marriage was virtually sexless except when trying for the kids so contraception wasn't an issue! I didn't go back on the pill and of course he was never going to have a vasectomy.

I've come upstairs to calm. My youngest desperately wanted to do a karaoke night but eldest has completely wrecked it. Putting on inappropriate songs, filming youngest and mocking him for loving the baby. It started to get physical between the kids so I managed to remove youngest and took him away so that eldest will hopefully calm down.

I just wish I could have a happy family.

[RandomMess]

Rainbow you must always sow the seeds of truth and decency, you don't need to argue with your DS or get him to admit that his father is horrible but you need to truthfully present the truth.

If you don't your DS will fill in the blanks.

He will only have his Dads version and then his own made up one.

Have you read the book "How to talks so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk" read and reread it.

You need to encourage your DS' to do critical thinking. It's ok to ask "if x happens what do you think it will be like"

When DS says you left to have another baby. You could ask "I could have had another baby with your daddy so why do you think that" or "Well that isn't true so why do you think I might have left?"

The book explains the psychology behind this very well and how important it is to encourage your DC to think for themselves and to be allowed to feel and verbalise often horrible violent things. It helps them regulate their emotions in the long run.

[Italiangreyhound]

RandomMess

"Italiangreyhound is it appropriate to say things like

"Those don't sound like your thoughts, you are usually respectful/kind about other people?" Then change the subject."

It might be. Only OP knows what her kids might say.

Personally, I think it can be. My kids can be quite rude so I'm not sure I would like to say they are usually polite! But I do like to expect the best and I do believe in positive thinking.

So I might be tempted to say something like "Are those really your thoughts, or is someone else influencing you? You can be respectful/kind about other people.. I've heard you do that before and it sounds so much better and more gruwn up" Then, yes, change the subject.

Totally agree "The DC absolutely need age appropriate truth because they need the information and tools to work out what they really believe/think. They have a gut instinct and the truth will allow that to grow."

[RandomMess]

@Italiangreyhound is it appropriate to say things like

"Those don't sound like your thoughts, you are usually respectful/kind about other people?" Then change the subject.

The DC absolutely need age appropriate truth because they need the information and tools to work out what they really believe/think. They have a gut instinct and the truth will allow that to grow.

[Italiangreyhound]

RainMinusBow "But even if I tell him he simply won't believe me. He will go back to his dad and ex will say I am making it all up." To be honest I don't think it is your responsibility to get him to believe you. You need to be honest in age appropriate language with your children (as I am with mine, who have different but not insignificant issues).

So for example, my son is adopted. I need to be honest about birth parents (in a non-malicious way) and do my best to prepare him for the future. I am not responsible for whether or not be believes me as long as I am doing my best to be truthful in an appropriate way.

I think it is the same for you.

Even if you did leave your ex to have another baby with another man, because you chose to. That is your choice. Kids cannot make us stay in unhappy relationships, and they should not be encouraged to believe families should stay together where the couple are unhappy, it's not healthy.

"Son was also really rude to my OH - calling him an "arse-wiper" OK, kids are rude to adults, I know. I would simply address this by requesting he stop and disengaging while he is being rude.

I would also add that when we are rude about adults who are about us and for us, we look small. Say 'I hate to see you looking silly when [name] is always respectful to you. "(assuming it is true).

In the long run he may see his behavior is not appropriate.

I might also add "I would assume your dad doesn't really want you to be rude about people who are caring for you." And if he does, that shows his dad in bad light, so I might say "I think it is a shame your dad is encouraging you to be rude to [name], it doesn't show your dad in a good light either."

"...because he works in adult social care and saying he's a thick idiot because he only earns £20k a year and his dad has earned £40k in just one day today." I would not engage in this discussion, it's pointless. your son is being rude but then he is in a terrible position. He is having to prop up a lie, that his dad is the good guy.

Change the subject, disengage. you require minimum good behaviour. Get that however you can and don't allow your son to de-rail you. You are the adult. Your ex is acting like a twat, but you are the bigger person! Be that bigger person and don't allow your son to derail life.

[Excited101]

Oh op, I’ve just read the whole thread- I was really hopeful for a more positive outcome at the end, I’m so sorry it’s not got there yet.

Your eldest loves you, kids aren’t stupid, they’re just immature. He’s lashing out at you because he’s absolutely terrified and you’re the absolute constant in his life. See how he calms so much when he’s in your care. Up and down I know, but see the change as he becomes loving and so beautiful again. Someone who hates you couldn’t behave like that.

You must, must keep fighting. Stick clearly and calmly to the 9:05 police call if they don’t get returned to you and be 100% consistent with that. But yes, you need to investigate perhaps with the police if the returning will still happen to your OH or a grandparent, and have this happen before baby comes, so your boys don’t get told it’s because the baby has come they’re not wanted by you any more.

And please, give your OH a massive massive thank you. Many men wouldn’t stay strong for you and your boys like he has. Many would have run a mile. It shows great dedication and love and maturity that he has done/will do. What a wonderful role model for all your children.

x

[Gutterton]

XH would just be blocked on new phone.

[Gutterton]

I am not undermining your other legal battles - just trying to remind you that these are separate battles and you are winning with your DS and you can impact that all day every day.

[Gutterton]

Your DS doesn’t hate you - he is being terrorised and radicalised by his evil Dad. I would keep smoothing with love, killing with kindness, creating a calm and peaceful home with hope and joy so that he knows and sees the contrast with his DF home which is ugly, angry, bitter and hateful, That’s a v stressful place for your DS to live - he is being emotionally abused and no doubt has some level of deep conflict, trauma and ptsd going on.

I would keep countering his experiences there - so in your home he experiences a calm, gentle, positive, peaceful, loving emotionally focused Mum. Even if you have to fake it at different moments I’m front of him.

That’s your power and your weapon. You have done this brilliantly already and just need to keep doing more of the same with your DS.

However you do need to address the abuse he spouts - not confrontational as he is volatile and traumatised - but gently offering a different perspective that he can consider in time - so the arse wipe comments - could be countered with - the whole country values OH role - that’s why they all come out to clap - we are all so proud of the difficult job OH does to care for the sick and the vulnerable - our values are kindness, respect, hope and joy - that sounds bitter, negative, unkind - we focus on finding the best in people, love, hugs, compassion - making a contribution to our society etc....

His words and behaviours need to be countered - gently, pointing to an alternative more comfortable and peaceful way to live.

[REignbow]

I think going forward, you need to write to your MP (as suggested by a PP) and also you need to change the requirements of drop off/pick ups. You’ll have an infant soon and you don’t know how you’ll feel after birth etc. So being expected to do this is going to be difficult.

The changing of your telephone number etc, is a difficult one as l guess that your DC will give him your new number. However, I would also get the wording changed in the order, so that he is only to correspond with you via email and only on specified days.

I would also ring rights of women and get advice from them. As you are still being abused and he is using the courts and is being coercive. Have you discussed this with your midwife?

[RainMinusBow]

@Quillink Aw thank you, that's kind of you to say so.

I often think I'm a rubbish mother because why else would my son seemingly hate me but yet appear to idolise his father and hang on his every word?

I've got some decisions to make re legal representation going forward too. At least two, if not three more hearings at around £3000-£5000 for each.

It makes me so sad and angry to think my ex is taking away my chance of ever being able to afford to buy a suitable property for my family whilst he lives the life of luxury as uses that as a carrot to futher persuade our eldest to live with him.

[Quillink]

OP you're bloody amazing.

You can enforce excellent boundaries in the coming weeks.

Inform him that you are now contactable on X app and y new email address, which will be checked once weekly on z day. Emergency number is now X, use an old handset for this. Then block him and divert emails to the old address to your junk folder. If he calls the emergency handset record it.

The abuse is ramping up because you're winning. He hasn't crushed you and it irks him. Let him be irked.

[RandomMess]

No he won't believe you right now but it sows the seeds for the future when he is older and can see more clearer what his father is like.

You don't have to go into details Eg.

He hurt me and said cruel things about me that is why I left,

This will ring true with your DS because guess what your ex still says cruel things about you.

[RainMinusBow]

But even if I tell him he simply won't believe me. He will go back to his dad and ex will say I am making it all up.

Son was also really rude to my OH - calling him an "arse-wiper" because he works in adult social care and saying he's a thick idiot because he only earns £20k a year and his dad has earned £40k in just one day today.

[Italiangreyhound]

@RainMinusBow are you going to start an other thread?

[Italiangreyhound]

I'm sorry your son is being so unfair. You can just twll him she appropriate truth. His dad was impossible to live with.

[RandomMess]

You can say age appropriate truth...

In fact you really need to be honest in an age appropriate way. He will join the dots and however much he may say you are lying underneath he will know who tells the truth.

[RainMinusBow]

@PunishmentSnart Thank you. This isn't an option because then father will claim he is the primary carer

We'd had an OK day today but then son started becoming argumentative over dinner. When we got to the bottom of it son says he believes the only reason I left his dad was because I wanted another baby. What a load of bs!!!

If only he knew what his dad put me through...

[PunishmentSnart]

This is the most heartbreaking thread ever. Sadly, I don’t have any advice for you but sending love for the safe arrival of your baby.

Would it be an option for the eldest to stay at his dads until this is all loosened . If you say something along the lines of you are desperate for him to come home and love and miss him but respect his choice. He may realise he misses you and wants to come home?! Just another option to maybe add a different spin to things

[RainMinusBow]

He does turn up to court. Every time. He just ignores the judge if they are decisions he does not agree with. He knows to get them enforced again costs me a ludicrous amount of money and courts are slow.

[BumbleBeee69]

we need anther Thread soon OP..

[Vodkacranberryplease]

That doesn't matter when it comes to pensions. Or hiding assets.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

God I'm so sorry rain I don't want you to think I'm doubting you - I just know what it's like and the space you can get into and how that can turn others against you. My ex biz partner was an ex banker who went to Eton and Oxford. With a good friend and shareholder who is on the board of a major luxury goods company. I'm a total nobody 😁 Everyone loved him .. except the solicitor who saw right through him, and the fellow shareholder that also did.

These men have weaknesses. The fact that your ex is prepared to blatantly harass you and say things your son is now repeating (parental alienation) and there's a paper trail of his abuse too. As an accountant he may know how to hide his money - but equally the people who look at these things know that and it makes him less believable to them.

Vexatious law suits are hard to prove. But not turning up to court doesn't play well either. I don't know how well he can control himself in public, or what his trigger points are, or how best to get him to make a major mistake, but there is a way, and you almost certainly know it, so use it.

But I don't want you to fall into the trap of being so ground down you come across as a non competent parent. This is why women get done over - not because the system doesn't in theory cater for them - but the system perceives what's happening the wrong way. Have a look at psychopaths in family law courts.

Maybe break this into little chunks. Minimise contact and do it through a third party first. When the kids are there don't call them and don't allow calls when they are with you. He won't even turn up to court so what the fuck can he do? As long as he's not restricted from seeing the children in his allowed time.

Then talk to someone about his pension. I bet he's not THAT clever, and he won't know it's happening. There will be a paper trail. Both of those things are potentially free or nearly free.

Have a look at the forums for hard done by men.. there will be some great ideas on there. God knows there's enough of them saying they are being screwed over., how is what you want to know!

It's pretty easy to push for various non molestation orders too - as long as his parental access isn't restricted. If you have good records AND you come across as a reasonable person who is happy for their father to have the contact he wants.

[RainMinusBow]

@Vodkacranberryplease Financial settlement happened almost 3 years ago.