To terminate/put up for adoption because of abusive ex-husband

[RainMinusBow]

Currently 18 weeks' pregnant (much wanted) with fiancé but abusive ex making my life hell. He has 50:50 of our two boys (court enforced) despite years of abuse and coercive control. It still continues and has got a lot worse since he's found out I'm pregnant. Has told our children that the baby is going to be "born a retard" (because of my age) and that boys should just hope and wish that the baby dies. The boys come home "pretending" to stab me and thump me in the stomach.

Ex called today (via son) calling me a pervert and a psycho because I am pregnant.

The abuse never stops.

Nobody helps me.

The only way I can realistically minimise the abuse is to let this baby go. I know it would break my fiancé (his only chance at fatherhood and I'm 39 now) but I can't live like this.

[Italiangreyhound]

midsummabreak

[Noworrieshere]

Sending love rain

Such an uncertain time in so many ways. I had a home birth with my 3rd and was really anxious about how it would all work out but as it happened the older kids were at school and it worked out perfectly. I guess there's a 50:50 chance of it working out well for you too, if the kids are with their dad. If they are with you then will they not want another adult like your mum around for them anyway? Your eldest is already anxious, would it not be a good idea for there to be someone there for him in case he panics and you can't help him and all the other adults are busy with you?
I think it would be worth trying to talk to him about how it would be okay for him to be with your parents in these exceptional circumstances. I wouldn't involve his dad unless as an absolute last resort, I would stick as rigidly as I could to the schedule as far as that goes.

[Italiangreyhound]

@RainMinusBow you know he has lost right, he is like that stabbed dinosaur in the films that thrashes about because it is dying. He has lost you, and with every second he looses some of his grip. Once the boys are older he really will have no hold whatsoever on you.

The boys do need to know what an utter twat he is. Because they might one day want you both to be at their wedding or whatever. They do need to know how awful he is to you. Document everything as SunshineCake says, because one day they may ask "mum, what really happened, I cannot remember."

I am not saying he is not dangerous, he may well be. But I am saying he has lost. He has lost you, he is losing influence over you (although it still feels like its there, remember at one time you were in his house, maybe at his beck and call), those days are gone.

Keep strong, remember that you will be victorious because you have right on your side. Enjoy your fabulous new partner and your baby. Make living well your revenge on this twisted man.

Tell everyone who will listen what you need to tell them to get the help you need. But please start to rehearse a new narrative in your heart, that you will over come him.

[NigellaAwesome]

Would he be open to a rational conversation about steps midwives will have taken to prevent transmission, that the whole idea of lockdown is so that it isn't circulating in the community, so that when there is contact, the risks are lowered, the fact your parents will not have been exposed etc? The government aim is not to reduce infections to nil, as that is not achievable, but to make them manageable, and also how it doesn't appear to impact on children as badly?

I meant in this paragraph a conversation with your eldest, not ex, btw. Reading it again I hadn't made it very clear.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

Omg I can't believe the cheek of this guy he hasn't got a fucking leg to stand on. Firstly YOU DO NOT NEED CONTACT WITH HIM. It's not a legal requirement!!!
YOU ARE NOT BREAKING ANY LAWS
Do you seriously just believe whatever this tosser tells you without checking??

The whole home birth, worry, etc etc the kids are too young - they do as their damn well told and you DO NOT consult your ex or even keep him - or them up to date. Jesus he really has got you running around hasn't he? Get another phone For friends and family and turn that one off. Now.
Tell him from now on all communication goes through (whoever the third party is). The children are to go outside when he picks them up. Good luck him taking that one to court.. 'judge she wouldn't talk to me' 🙄🙄

You tell your son that this baby is his brother and that you can not possibly love that baby more than you do him, but that that baby is going to need a proper big brother and that he needs to understand that and stop behaving like an idiot. And from now on you make the rules and he obeys them. See how he's already obeying the court and not you? If you don't put your foot down NOW you will have big problems and a very unhappy child.

It's far too much responsibility and knowledge and they do not need chapter and verse on how you're having the baby - they need YOU to have a good plan (that revolves around your needs) and to stick to it. Calling your mother a bitch like you? Get a fucking lawyer or at the very least some advice because that is a major warning sign that your ex is abusive.

IF YOU HAVE MONEY FOR A MIDWIFE YOU HAVE MONEY FOR A LAWYER. Sorry to be shouty but looking from the outside in this is the most bizarre situation ever. Go to the nhs and use that money to get this wanker under control.

There are lots of ways to provoke him into acting like a lunatic, then recording that. There are lots of ways to stop contact and stop listening to his utter BS. His harassment of you during pregnancy is utterly disgusting the things he says are revolting.

Stop acting like you have no options, and he's some kind of god. 90% of what he's told you about various laws etc is complete rubbish. But he's got you running around, reacting, stressed and too busy to do anything other than deal with what he throws at you, it's a tactic. My ex biz partner did exactly the same. In the end I sent his emails straight to junk and worked at home. Then, finally, I got a lawyer - and found out I had 10 years of shit I didn't have to have.

Get. A. Solicitor. And stop reaching out to the various DV charities you have been - if they haven't helped stop thinking they will. And for the love of god stop thinking things like i thought he would be happy and leave me alone. That's not how they work - my ex biz partner became worse after getting married and having children because he felt empowered, he's not a person and he's not normal. And if you don't step up right now your son is going to be exactly the same because it IS genetic. You can bring a low empathy child up to be a good person but it takes work and very strict boundaries and you seem to be unwilling to do what you have to. And I get that. You're almost certainly depressed. So dealing with how you feel is important.

But can I just say my stress magically lifted the day I found out I could just vote that fucker off the board and then he would be gone. And the ONLY PERSON able to tell me that was a solicitor specialising in company law. I estimate the whole thing cost me around £4K including Graham coming to our second board meeting (I didn't vote him out straight away. Big mistake - never give them the benefit of the doubt you need to go straight for the kill).

Or you can carry on living in poverty and stress watching your son turn into a psychopath. Up to you really. But isn't it time to protect this baby and your life from this pig? As someone suggested no win no fee may very well work. You didn't even mention the divorce settlement. You have , as they say, been done like a kipper. And if you say peace is more important than money I'll scream - because you haven't got peace have you? Psychopaths don't do peace. The end.

[BurtonHouse]

Vodka, I couldn't agree more.

[RainMinusBow]

@Vodkacranberryplease
IF YOU HAVE MONEY FOR A MIDWIFE YOU HAVE MONEY FOR A LAWYER. Sorry to be shouty but looking from the outside in this is the most bizarre situation ever. Go to the nhs and use that money to get this wanker under control.
*
Our parents are paying for our private midwife. I am having to use all of my savings for legal fees. This means that won't be able to ever afford our own house. To date, this round of legal fees alone has cost £5k with at least another £2.5k due before the end of the month. Projected fees for this issue alone will be around £10k. To date, in total, legal fees for all of the times he has taken me to court are in the region of £25-£30k if not a little more.

We are coming to terms with the fact we will be in maximum of a 3-bed privately rented forever.

[Italiangreyhound]

I do think Vodkacranberryplease speaks a lot of sense.

RainMinusBow I think you ha ever treated very baflyby charities and the law, which have not helped you. But I do think you need to use the birth of tgis new baby to break all connection with thus man. Use only enauks or texts through a third party etc. What he is doing, IMHO, is a form of stalking you. You do not need to speak to him or gave contact with him. What would happen if the children needed to go to him or come back when you were on Labour?

Would you think you had to be present to collect or hand over? You need to make this change now.

You are going to beat him, but you need to believe you can. He is a sad little fucker, you know it. His control is slipping.

[MaryAnneMumof2]

I’m so sorry you have had this experience but I can tell you from experience that the only way this will get better is to stand up to him. The more you submit to him and appease the worse he will become. To be considering terminating your new pregnancy to avoid annoying your ex husband I think demonstrates how much perspective you have lost (not having a go at you). This man is a bully, embittered and with sociopathic traits and you I’m afraid are an easy target. I know you are tired and feel weak and I know it is hard but you have to stand up to him. The same goes for your children, if my eldest had have pretended to punch or stab my stomach while pregnant with his brother he would not have been living under my roof much longer. That is entirely unacceptable behaviour and he also sounds like he is bullying you. You need to stop all contact between you and your ex - he can email you if he needs to arrange access to the children, your children are old enough that he never needs to speak to you or see you again and you need to hire a lawyer who can help you fight this man if he continues to invade your life. The law has never been stronger to protect women against perpetrators like your ex, you need to use it to get free of this man and if possible minimise his contact with your children - first step is to cut off all physical or verbal contact with you - email communication only and that is your right, it will also mean that you have in writing anything he communicates. I wish you the very best.

[Noworrieshere]

Our parents are paying for our private midwife

Why can't your parents pay for your lawyer instead then? Do they know how bad things are? I guess your partner's parents might not want to pay for your legal fees from a previous relationship but you could use your parents money towards the fees?

[Italiangreyhound]

MaryAnneMumof2 Totally agree "...first step is to cut off all physical or verbal contact with you - email communication only and that is your right, it will also mean that you have in writing anything he communicates."

I think OP the fact you considered abortion or adoption for your child, even in passing, and I know it was many months ago now; it shows just how stick you are in thinking he is in charge.

He is not in charge. It only feels like that.

[Italiangreyhound]

Stuck not stick!

[Willow4987]

I 100% agree with @Vodkacranberryplease

You need to take action now and what vodka says makes the most sense

[RainMinusBow]

@Noworrieshere My OH keeps a lot of what I'm being put through by my ex away from his parents and I understand that I guess. The boys are not biologically his and his mum in particular has her own health battles. They are both in their late seventies and live an hour and a half away.

My mum does understand but my dad is autistic so again doesn't really know what is going on and can't cope well with it at all.

And ultimately, who can really afford the cost of solicitor fees that I am having to pay? All of our parents are retired.

The Order wording re returning boys is: "...with the parent in whose care the children are going to be, collecting the children from the other parent's home address".

So technically he argues that's me and won't release the boys to anyone else.

Re the baby...The reality is if I wasn't pregnant he couldn't be using my baby as leverage to encourage more custody re my son. For example, he wouldn't be telling him I only ever wanted a girl, that he will be ignored when baby is here, that he will have to share a bedroom with his brother, that we are spending thousands of pounds on baby clothes (nearly all of baby's clothes are second-hand from ebay).

[Noworrieshere]

Is it possible to ask for a change to the wording of that particular part of the court order? It does seem unusually restrictive. Maybe it's just badly drafted and no-one really thought through the implications at the time?
(Just asking, I genuinely don't know)

[eleventy3isthemagicnumber]

So technically he argues that's me and won't release the boys to anyone else

Yes, but he's wrong. Refuse to see him at pickup. If he doesn't take the boys that's him breaking the order not you.

[Elephantgrey]

That’s what I would do. Send him a text message saying that due to his previous behaviour you no longer want to speak to him but you will be releasing the boys to him a the specified time and don’t leave the house.
If he doesn’t collect them it will be very clear that that is his choice. And will be excellent evidence for court that he is the unreasonable one.

[RainMinusBow]

He does collect them, he won't let anybody else except me pick them up from his house. Yes, I think we need to request a change in Order wording.

[RandomMess]

You can also email/text:

I am appointing X in loco parentis to collect the DC from your home due to your ongoing abuse to me and the boys. I have consulted with my solicitor and I am entitled to do this. If you do not release the DC the police will be called to enforce the order which is not in the DC best interests.

Let him take it to the judge that you are not sticking to the order... the will not be impressed!

[Vodkacranberryplease]

I'm sorry but you need to stop this Rain. Firstly the law is not that you have to have actual contact - he's picking them up. Not you. You need to google the legal definition of this, and check online what contact under the law he needs to have and how. Because he's lying.

There's also no mention of money from the divorce (of a wealthy man) so I assume you caved in, didn't have proper legal advice and got nothing. His not turning up to court means he bears the cost of legal Proceedings surely? that's what you ask for at the hearing (a solicitor does actually). If you are getting divorced and you have court cases your make finding out everything you can your number one priority. And you fire your fucking useless current solicitor.

I'm guessing I can't post links but I did a quick google search on my phone for win no fee divorce solicitor UK and got some results on adwords (not sure about them one looked ok one was offering a free initial meeting) and also on a law blog from 2012 explaining it wasn't permitted in family law but talking about options. Stowe family law. Very informative. So from there you look at the different aspects by phrase. Eg who pays child custody court costs UK brought up some interesting resources. Ignore Citizens advice, useless.

The problem is you are surrounded by weak people who know nothing and can't help. And want you to be weak too. And you are up against a psychopath who will make the whole of the rest of your life living hell unless you fuck him off. You can't do it on your own or without professional help and you have to be willing to let them go after the money instead of thinking that you don't want the grief or it will make him worse. What makes him worse is the power he has over you. That's how abusers operate. Do you think he's holding back because he feels grateful? That he thinks better of you? If anything he despises you for it - you are less human in his eyes. I don't know anyone that would do that to an animal let alone the mother of their children. And everyone around you thinks they are being so nice by not confronting him. Jesus.

Please understand he thinks you are worthless and pathetic because he is very deeply damaged. Every time you give in, or cry or let him win he hates you more. If you suddenly fight him he will yell and scream but he won't get worse if there's legal consequences and people watching.

I think you need a male solicitor that is the exact opposite of your OH. An alpha male who is scared of nothing and knows where to look. One that frightens him a bit. Please don't diy it - I looked for over 8 years and didn't know that I could just vote him out. I only found out because someone on a business forum told me (rather rudely) that I needed a specialist solicitor and gave me a recommendation. I got my £500 together and by the end of the first meeting knew I had options and what they were. 8 years of looking didn't get me even close to it - and I'm a google pro.

The things you really really need to know are almost never in the public domain. Apart from gardening and even then you have to get very specific to get past the rubbish.

However that family law firm from Stowe has a cracking (if slightly old) blog. I've recently found some pretty useful info on the accounting forum and I know there's ones solicitors use. Get a few preliminary meetings set up (for free) and see what they say. If they all say sorry love you're screwed find one that doesn't. Post on here asking for recs.

If you know you can recover fees, a fair settlement and get control of your life back it won't cost a penny - but if you waste your money on useless solicitors who don't know how to take him apart then it's of course a disaster.

They are all sitting around now anyway I should think there will be a few leaping at the chance to get out of children related duties. Why not find all the good ones and send them all an email explaining things briefly and asking for a Skype exploratory meeting?

Imagine if you could give birth in peace. Knowing your ducks are in a row? And avoid his family - as I said these things are genetic,

[RainMinusBow]

@Vodkacranberryplease I don't have contact when he collects. He is unfortunately technically current within his rights to insist I collect due to the current wording of the Order.

I can't recover fees. Family Courts won't ask for costs from other party. He is a Chartered Accountant so knew exactly how to hide/skew his money re his own business. I got some settlement-enough for a deposit-but of course I'm having to use that money now to once again pay solicitors.

[RainMinusBow]

Yes, his mum has a significant history of severe MH issues.

[Vodkacranberryplease]

So it seems there are many ways to go about the same thing. It appears it is possible to go after an ex husbands pension - using a no win no fee solicitor. I should think it's possible to go after any asset hidden from the court or not fairly distributed. I googled claiming husbands pension after divorce and there is a whole world of interesting things.

I also googled 'best solicitor to beat abusive ex husband' (not because I thought I would actually find contacts - I knew I wouldn't) and there's some useful stuff about how you have to approach the system. If you put the below phrases into google you'll see that your feelings of hopelessness etc if played out in court will absolutely crucify you legally. Not fighting him makes you seem like a less committed mother too.

Language women should use in the Family Court

The manipulative tactics psychological abusers use in court to keep control over their victims

And finally something called parallel parenting. No contact with each other except essentials, through a third party or messaging service.

[eleventy3isthemagicnumber]

He is unfortunately technically current within his rights to insist I collect due to the current wording of the Order

Says who? Unless a solicitor has confirmed it should be interpreted like this (and I doubt they would anyway) then that's his interpretation, not in the spirit of the order.

[RainMinusBow]

@Vodkacranberryplease Financial settlement happened almost 3 years ago.