Where can I find a man with exceptional relationship skills?

[changeling82]

I'm 38 and have been online dating now for over 10 years. In that time I've met around 150 men and chatted with countless more but in my experience, the vast majority simply do not have the relationship skills needed to make a satisfying and happy relationship viable. This has also been my experience with the men I've met in real life. They're all curiously lacking in the required skills.

I recently had a look to see if there had been any studies done that had found a massive imbalance in relationship skills between men and women and lo and behold there's a mountain of stuff that more or less confirms that my experiences are typical of most women's. In fact, one study that I read recently more or less said that only a tiny number of women ever find fulfillment and contentment in heterosexual relationships with men and that these women were with men who were described as "exceptional". This is because men are socialised to do vastly less emotion work than women despite high levels of emotion work being the key to making your partner happy in a relationship. In fact, single, childless women almost always come out as happier than their married counterparts even when they admit to being desperately lonely and stigmatised on account of not having a partner. It's all just so depressing as this tallies with my experiences. I'm depressed and lonely but know I would simply be more depressed and more lonely in a typical relationship.

So I need to work out how to go about finding exceptional men in significant quantities (as when you find one you're not necessarily going to be mutually attracted or compatible). I read that only 1 in 10 books on relationship skills are read by men but how could I go about finding these men who are at least interested in relationships and open to learning? And does anyone know anywhere where men with good relationship skills might be likely to hang out online?

I really want to have children and not end up hating the person I have them with. All suggestions would be incredibly welcome!

Questionnaire it is, then! 😂

Ravenmum yeah I agree
If someone says ‘how are you how was your day’ I would just tell them? Or say well what a shocking day that was! I’m not a bad story teller IRL so I can make something sound funny, amusing or interesting. Have you considered that your stories are too long, complicated, drawn out? So people zone out? Do you get to the point? I’ve already noticed that you don’t respond really you are just throwing information into the thread it doesn’t feel like a 2 way discussion 😂

I think a lot of this grows with time, love, and experience. When I first met DH he probably wasn't the most aware of my emotions or how to be there for me in certain circumstances. But he didn't really know me, the real me. Now he would literally do anything for me, and is always there for me, listens and cares etc among a million other things.
Of course he's not perfect, but I think you need to decide what things are more important than others, what you're willing to forego and what might be considered deal breakers.

Whatcha mean also very true!
The more you fall in love with someone the more this grows
Initial attraction stage is ALWAYS selfish ‘how can I get this person to like me’ and then this grows into ‘how can I make this person happy’

Ha ha, the Rosie Project sounds right up my street!

Menora I never get to tell most of my stories to men. And no, when I do get to tell them they're not long, complicated or drawn out at all. People don't zone out.

I've spent the last hour or so responding to people and my responses can be seen by reading the thread! Clearly if people post while I'm responding to someone else I won't get round to responding to their post until I've finished the previous one.

What sometimes happens is that men only hear my stories when we're socialising in a group and others ask me about stuff in my life. Some of my exes have commented and said, "how have I never heard these stories, they're entertaining" and I've told them it's because we talk about them most of the time because they don't really ask about me and I've hoped that things might change but they don't. They just go on as they were before until I dump them!

I've had a grand total of 3 relationships in my life. Only the first had any trouble picking up on social cues. Unfortunately he was the one I decided to marry 😂
Neither of the socially smart guys I have since been with is a psychologist or anything similar. The first is an engineer, the second is in urban planning.
The Rosie Project's hero ended up with a woman who didn't match his questionnaire at all. You may just need to kiss more frogs and/or have a bit of a think about whether the self-help books are written out of a pure, unsullied wish to help other people find a mate.

Ok so my thought were that you are just throwing info out onto the thread it doesn’t feel like a discussion. It’s also got no humour in it, and it is true that SOH is one of the most attractive things in a person. It is entirely possible that you have written off 100 of those men for what you perceive as a lack of skills but in fact it’s because it hasn’t had time to grow into anything!

This sounds like you are always waiting to say something to people, waiting to be asked. Are you not just putting it out there? You wouldn’t tell a story to someone unprompted you want to be asked?

Menora I am thinking and doing both those things from day one - I've just come across almost no men who understand how to make someone truly happy though. Some women are with the exceptions though. I can't find one.

I've met a man with awesome relationship skills on tinder. Our first date was 5 hours of back and forth conversation whereby loads of stories were shared.

We're both on the same page intelligence wise and he really listens to me and I him. I consider myself to be very lucky as we're 10 weeks in and neither of us has any red flags showing.

He's affectionate, caring and funny - all the attributes I've been after in my 10/11 months of OLD. I've kissed some bloody frogs too and feel extremely happy with my new boyfriend

I am probably not thinking about how to make a man happy when I meet him, I am thinking do I want to kiss you/have sex, do we get along, have we got much in common? Then later down the line I will begin to invest actual emotion and time into a person if I think they are right for me. It’s ok to be selfish too

Have you considered any kind of therapy, to get another perspective on why things haven't worked out so far?

I know lots of men who would tick your emotional intelligence boxes. On in particular can do the emotional, empathetic equivalent of handstands with his hands tied together. Would I shag him?? Would I heckers like. He hasn't got a pot to piss in and his life is entirely dysfunctional.

I was with a man for 15 years who was as empathetic as a mahogany sideboard. It was a big issue, but at least he wasnt living in his overdraft and had a car ;)

I met one of those guys, OP. He was really incredible. He was empathic, emotionally available, caring, kind, interested and interesting. Honestly I've never met anybody else like him ever. He also was very patient in discussions.

What happened?

He was sooo lovely I was completely freaked out at the time and dumped him!! Lots of therapy later and I understand why I did. He's now married to a really lovely woman and I'm genuinely happy for him (I think she's nicer than me).

I just happened to meet him, nowhere special. He was a med student who decided he didn't want to be a dr (later went back to it). It was fluke really.

I then married someone who is the polar opposite: walks out of rooms if there's any emotion shown and has scored 2/10 on an empathy test at work. Nice guy too, just not empathic.

I've met some others who appear to be like my ex, but we're actually very self-centred on their own experience and couched it all in language that made them appear open and empathic. They type of men who call themselves feminists but, eventually, when their guard is down, they then turn out to mansplain.

I can see the absolute logic in your approach, but I wonder if it somehow shows through and the exceptional guys are reading the logic as cold or calculating, or something not quite genuine. Or if they're reading it as you on a husband hunt, rather than looking for, essentially, empathy and an ability to act on it. I'm not sure how you can convey it directly without it appearing calculating in some regard. And any hint of being calculating is likely to send guys like that -silently - running.

I do think age is an issue though. Assuming you are looking for men of a similar age, that is the lower end of an age group where I have noticed that most of the decent men are already committed (nb most not all)
And your comment that you want a family is also an issue- many men your age may already have kids and don't want more, or conversely know they don't want them- so a childless woman of child bearing age may not be what they want.
I agree with PPs, look for people who like the things that you like. Don't expect someone to behave like a partner on a first date.
Also, don't dismiss a man for listing his record collection. DP would probably do that, partly in hopes of finding someone who shares his taste, but also because it would be a shorthand way of telling you quite a lot about himself. You may not be able to read those cues, so you probably wouldn't be compatible.

It depends on the story Menora - I do volunteer stories but I don't really enjoy telling them as much if the other person hasn't actively shown me they're interested in hearing them. My dad is a long-length monologuer and I saw how much damage it did to his relationship with my mum and I've always vowed I'd never be like that, even though he is a wonderful person in so many other ways. Because of that I need to see that the other person definitely wants to hear what I have to say before I say anything that isn't quite short. But most men just ask almost nothing. It's not really personal - I don't think they find me less interesting than anyone else. When I've been with exes around others they haven't shown any more interest in anyone else and have some pretty scary gaps in their knowledge about their own exes opinions on stuff rather suggesting that they just never asked their exes much either, even though they were in love with them. If this were a personal quirk it might be one thing but there is research that shows that asking people a lot and frequently is a really positive thing in a relationship. Not doing it causes problems unless both parties are happy to monologue at each other I suppose, or one party is happy to live with an imbalance whereby they do all the work (thinking up questions) and the other person gets all the reward (the feel good chemicals that are released when we get to talk about ourselves).

Just my tuppence worth. My DH has 4 sisters and I always say that's what makes him a great husband (and friend). So look for men with good relationships with their female relatives...maybe? Just a theory :)

Thanks kristallen - I have been successful with the exceptional guys though in that I've had a couple of relationships that made me really happy but they didn't work out for other reasons. One of the guys had alcohol problems and with the other guy, we adored each other, fancied each other and were best friends but just didn't fall in love. I was young at the time so when he told me he didn't think it was going to happen for him I was quite relieved as I felt the same and it meant I wasn't tormented by a difficult decision but if I found that again and the guy did fall in love with me I'd take it in a heartbeat, even if I knew I wouldn't fall head over heals. He made me so, so happy and it's just so frustrating to know exactly what works for you but not being able to find anyone to give you it. Especially when what you need is set out in black and white by various books written by relationship experts that can be bought in shops. But that only women seem to read.

And so sorry you lost your Mr Wonderful but glad you've had happiness in some form from other men!

I think they only exist in our imagination but if anyone has the answer I'm listening.

Bonehead free for nearly a decade and refusing to settle.🎖️😂

I don't have an issue with people listing their record collection StillWeRise - it's when it's the only information given in someone's entire profile. No information about the kind of person they are beyond their taste in music and no information about the kind of person they're looking for. This is surprisingly common! And yes, I'm definitely not compatible with someone who thinks like that!

And yes, the age thing is making it harder. I got way more interest when I was 27 than I do now. Didn't meet anyone I thought would make me happy though.

And yeah, Whatthewhatnow - my experience too. Some great men with great emotional intelligence but it doesn't work for other reasons.

One of my exceptional guys had 4 sisters confused so there's maybe something to it! People don't usually put that information on profiles though so you can't identify them! The other was an only child but he came from a family of diplomats so probably had had training in high-level relationship skills from a young age...maybe I should hang around outside embassies. Probably get arrested for spying.

What's your idea of settling Closetbeanmuncher? I'd happily settle for someone I wasn't in love with if they made me happy. Can't even find someone to settle for though!

Good idea @NameChangedNoImagination

I've only ever met one who fits the category of what you describe as exceptional in my whole 38 years of walking this earth.

The thing you have to remember is most people present as exceptional then revert to type.

Dating is a false currency imo. The only way to know somebody warts and all is a long term friendship.

Only them can you determine your comparability before you're knees deep in amediocre/abusive puddle of mud.