I feel like he has cheated

[Loveontherocks100]

Please bear with me because this is quite long, and probably seems very stupid, but I really really can’t get over my husband lying to me/convince myself he didn’t have at best an emotional or worst a physical affair. Let me preface this by saying he works VERY long hours 8-10pm average so always at work. We have 1 baby and 1 on the way.

3 years ago he told me a (young, pretty) colleague at work (we are now 30 for context), had baked him a cake especially for him as he was moving Desk. He was teasing me that she fancied him. I thought this was quite inappropriate of her/an overreaction to a colleague (he’s her direct boss) so asked him to just shut it down. He said he did.

A year later I found an exchange of emails BY ACCIDENT (which I posted about at the time) where she asked if he was coming for drinks and he effectively said he was very sad he couldn’t because I was pregnant. Poor him. She replied “no risk no fun” and there was a great deal of winky emojis and all fairly inappropriate. Given the cake incident I was displeased and said I wanted him to stop indulging in flirting with a colleague he had said fancied him. A few months later he said she left the team for another one.

9 months later I basically find out (not from him) that she has been working for him all along. They sit near each other. He has repeatedly lied to me about it. He has been going for drinks with her and (supposedly) other colleagues. Going to nightclubs with her (and other colleagues) and lying about it whilst I’m at home with our baby.

It’s been months since I find this out and I just can’t get over it. It probably seems so small and stupid but I had to DRAG the information out of him with irrefutable proof. He just denied denied denied then said “oh I didn’t remember” blah blah blah and now I am just convinced in my mind they must have slept together at least once or kissed or flirted.

I don’t understand why else the flirting emails, the cake, the lies!?!

Am I insane?

But it’s like he wants to avoid “trouble” that doesn’t even remotely exist. I met his lovely PA earlier but I didn’t realise who she was as I haven’t met her before. She was very kind but I was upset with DH and didn’t know her so wasn’t as effusive as I would have been (she has a son the same age as mine etc would have asked after him). I asked him after to maybe ping her an email to say I didn’t realise who she was otherwise would have loved some baby chatter. Just something nice. He didn’t want to email, but to ask in person tomorrow. Whatever - no problem. Why would that be a problem?!

DH missed some work drinks for Christmas (not the main ones - he’s already had those) to come home to talk. I asked out of concern did anyone email him/is he in trouble? He said one boss emailed. The PA emailed too to ask etc!!! He just lied because he didn’t want to email her and for some reason thought this would cause a problem?!?! Whyyyyyyyyyyyyy

WHHHYYYYYY

I realise this is just a stupid stupid nonsense example but why why why he can’t be honest about the smallest and literally most insignificant of conversation pieces. It’s making me feel like a lunatic. And when I asked why he didn’t mention it he couldn’t be honest he “forgot” and then it was “you didn’t specifically ask if PA had emailed”. But I know him I know he knew and just didn’t want to email her. But it was fine of course he didn’t have to. I feel mental.

Sorry I’m not sure that post even makes sense or is worth it’s long windedness I just wanted to explain how stupid the lies are

Can you just point out every time he lies, maybe say ‘stop, you’re doing it again, I don’t know if you realise but you are now lying to me and I don’t like it and won’t take it, so talk only the truth’. If he carries on, simply walk away into another room? I’m trying to give him the benefit of the doubt and wonder if he just doesn’t realise he’s doing it??

janus

With some persuasion he accepts he was lying but then tries to back track. There’s a million reasons given always for the lie. It’s exhausting, honestly.

Counselling? Sounds like he needs to be told by someone independent how much lies erode a relationship. If you end up leaving him you will know you tried everything.

Either way it’s all very new and raw and sudden so don’t let him override your feelings and do take time to yourself to think.

Not sure if I’m allowed to ask but I made a salient and well thought out point earlier in the thread that was in no way insulting or rude.... anyone know why it got deleted?

he can’t be honest about the smallest and literally most insignificant of conversation pieces. It’s making me feel like a lunatic

It's meant to, which is why it's known as gaslighting ...

He hasn’t cheated. He admitted that he tried to keep the peace by not mentioning the female colleague after it created issues previously.
He didn’t ‘take’ that colleague to a nightclub - he took collegue(S) - plural. This is what hard working people do - they often blow off steam by going out. And id it’s London, or any other bigger city - the fact that it’s a private club is neither here or there. Just what people do here.

OP came here looking for support. Not for people invested in making her break up her family regardless of anything.
So - when OP has her doubts - she gets cheers.
When she tries to talk to her H and see what’s what - she gets boos.
This isn’t support. It’s a mob.

So it's ok then to you, MMmomDD that he said he was working late but instead goes out clubbing..... his son was SICK FFS - he LIES so he can avoid helping his CHILDREN, and if you can't see how fucked up that is, then just whaaaaaaaaaaaat????

OP may have post natal depression. Hubby working late to provide for family. Really helps with the MN mob on your tail

I definitely do not have PN depression! I find it quite insulting that I must have PND to be reacting to lies like this?! My mental state is fine! I am just a bit frazzled by all the nonsense.

DH has been spouting victim bullshit about panicking and struggling with work and home life, all very self-indulgent. He wants to do couples counselling. I am on the fence - I am worried it will somehow paint him as a victim or someone with a “problem” who needs love and support

Yeah, what someone who states that her DP’s lies make her feel mental definitely needs is for someone to question her mental health! Ffs

I find it quite insulting that I must have PND to be reacting to lies like this?!

Don't let it worry you, OP; there's often a tendency on MN for things to be medicalised and it was only a matter of time until someone said it. Next thing you know it'll become "OP might have PND ... so she has ... so all this is symptomatic"

If you want to try counseling, would it perhaps help to see someone on your own, then ask if they'd see you both afterwards? I understand your concern very well and just thought it might be useful if you were able to explain the circumstances before risking joint sessions?

In the meantime, I wonder if any of this sounds familiar ... ?

www.thehotline.org/what-is-gaslighting/

Counselling could help him see how to lies are affecting you/the relationship. Couples counselling do see you both but also ask to see you both separately aswell so you will get your time with them alone.

Stop insulting OP and stop calling other posters a "mob".

Most people are trying to help here. OP is not depressed, she is having a normal human reaction to lies.

Oh @Loveontherocks100 ignore the Mumsnet "experts"
They'll be diagnosing you with ASD next !
Bloody idiots.
Your feelings are valid.
Every time he lies he's letting you down and every time he tries to manipulate you into thinking he's the victim he is emotionally abusing you.
It's a horrible situation and he's gaslighting you.
It's the worst feeling in the world.
Even if he's not had an affair his actions and constant lies are a betrayal.
I'm not telling you to leave him or kick him out but you need to stand strong and do what you need to do for you.
I didn't leave my husband ( worst mistake of my life ) but I can't trust him and don't want to be near him .
I'm stuck in a horrible place.
You think you know someone and they destroy all of the trust in a matter of minutes when you find out about their deceptions.
It's hard to come back from that.
Some people do with a lot of hard work.
He needs to stop being a man child and feeling sorry for himself and admit the lying is wrong and stop making excuses before you can move forward.

Counselling can help both of you, OP.
He won’t be able to just play victim - and will have to face his issues and behaviours.
But you too may need to have an open mind.
Not something you want to hear, but relationships do take two. And he does have his side of the story.

Stressful and hard as it is for you to be raising a child. It is also stressful to be the sole breadwinner.
Both of you need to be supporting the other.
He seems to not fully meet your needs.
We don’t know anything about his side of the story.
Counselling may help if you still want to try to have this family as a unit.

When the lies were discovered he started to see a therapist alone to discuss his need to lie/his family shit and see how it would help. He hasn’t been for a while. His therapist also does couples sessions so probably makes sense to go to him. I will ask him to arrange ASAP.

I feel sick though. I have this sinking feeling of dread that perhaps a therapist will convince him to reveal other things to me and I want to know but I also really, really don’t.

I need to thank everyone again for all the support and advice. I don’t quite have the words to explain how wonderful, helpful and kind you have all been. I’ve really needed it! ❤️

Also, I get the feeling he does not want to use his therapist, which I find odd.

" He wants to do couples counselling. "

I think that is a good idea @Loveontherocks100.

The thing about lies and secrecy is that it is about CONTROL. It is interesting that he stopped going....

If he gets more and stronger messages that his deceit and manipulation is going to cost him

... that is a powerful incentive to change.

Insist on using his therapist. She or he sees through the bullshit and stops the manipulation, which of course, is why he doesn't want to go. They won't him divulge anything, but 'your way of being is now going to really cost you' is a powerful pressure for him.

Lastly, OP, you might have to accept that you invested your life and your heart into a common or garden narcissist (I did). You can never change a narcissist and nor should you waste the energy trying to engage.

The the focus is on RADICAL ACCEPTANCE of who he is as a person, and focusing on developing your own life/support groups/friendship groups/sports/hobbies/career/investments and savings. I think you should do this anyway.

"Stressful and hard as it is for you to be raising a child. It is also stressful to be the sole breadwinner.
Both of you need to be supporting the other.
He seems to not fully meet your needs.
We don’t know anything about his side of the story."

This is so true. Focus on yourself OP, get tougher. Not to change him or engage in any power struggle, but just to be a more self sufficient person emotionally and in yourself.

I know this is a statement of the blindingly obvious but I’m so angry that you’re going through this when pregnant and with another DC to look after too.

Fuck him for this.

It's quite obviously that he is a compulsive liar and a people pleaser.. So he won't tell the truth if he thinks it will cause upset. I think he probably just needs to see someone about that as obviously the lies have gotten out of control.

During my gambling years I would lie so much, not even anything to do with gambling but purely as I had gotten used to lying so much it just became natural.

I don't think he is cheating and as long as he tries to get some help with the lying I don't think it's anything to break up over.

He probably lies so much now that he does not even realise he is doing it.. I still do it on the odd occasion now if I'm on the phone to someone I just say oh someone is at the door I have to go rather than just saying OK I'd like to end this conversation now...

It's quite obviously that he is a compulsive liar and a people pleaser

I think that this is probably true. I suppose I would wonder how far that would go though. I mean if the colleague kissed him would he just go along with it to avoid upsetting?

Thank you for sharing your experience with lying re gambling - how did you manage to stop?

Coincidentally; I had a best friend for years who was a compulsive liar. It was exhausting. In lots of ways the reason why he lies isn’t really important to me, I suppose. I mean I would view him in a more sympathetic light but ultimately if he cannot change and I cannot trust him...

It’s so sad. We get on so well usually, he was trying to joke with me this morning and usually it would be hilarious but it’s not funny for me now: I don’t want to joke with him.