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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Huge argument with my sister

169 replies

Christmasslippers · 30/11/2019 16:38

This will be a long post so I apologise in advance. I decided to post in this section rather than AIBU as I can’t be doing with all the vultures and I thought I may get a more grown up response on here as I have seen first hand how some of these threads go down.

I have recently had a huge falling out with my sister and I don’t know how/if we’re going to survive it. Bit of a backstory-
We have never seen eye to eye, since we were kids really. We’ve tried to make an effort to get along for the sake of our mum as it makes her happy. I’m 32, married with no children, we both work full time in relatively well paid jobs and we plan to have children in the next couple of years. I have always worked full time since leaving college at 18 whereas my sister has bounced between working part time and being on benefits.

She currently works part time in a care home and her partner works full time for a conservatory installation company. They have 3 children together and rent a 3 bed house from the housing association. They have always had quite a rocky relationship and have been on and off over the years but things have been much better since the youngest was born two years ago. Now this is the issue:

She claims to be a single parent living alone with just the 3 kids. This is absolutely not the case as he has lived with them since the youngest was born. Because of her lies, she receives quite a fair bit in benefits that she is not entitled to, amounting to approx £1,200 a month along with her wages of around £600.
He earns around £1,300 after tax so they are bringing in at least 3k a month.
From the £1,200 she gets in benefits £400 is deducted to go towards her rent, she pays the other £200. She also receives a council tax reduction as she is supposedly “single”. Apart from that she doesn’t have many bills except car finance (both, he has a 4 year old BMW and she has a brand new Kia). They also obviously have to pay towards clothing and feeding the kids. They don’t have any child care costs as on the two days she is working my mum looks after the youngest child, other two are in school full time.

They’ve been able to get away with this as he listed his mum’s address as his current residence. Whenever he gives her money towards the bills and kids he pays in cash and he also parks his car a bit further down the road from the house incase any of the neighbours suspect anything. They also don’t talk about their situation to anyone except family, even her best friend doesn’t know the set up. They are very clever and know exactly how to con the system. We have spoken about the set up many times and I have been honest and expressed my disagreement with it. She’s always said she knows what she’s doing is wrong and that she worries in case she gets caught, but still continues to do it to this very day. I will add, she is not doing it to make ends meet either, It is purely down to greed and wanting to go on lovely holidays and have nice cars. She’s always said she wouldn’t be able to do any of those things if she didn’t fraudulently claim, which is simply not the truth. She would still be able to have those things, but she’d have to save up for them just like most people. I actually helped her a few months ago fill in a benefit calculator online to see how much she would be entitled to if she declared her partner living there and they were still eligible for help, albeit a lot less than what she is getting now (around £700 difference but still entitled to £500 a month) and she said this is why she won’t tell the truth. They would still be bringing in just over 2k a month and most of the rent would still be paid. She also has the option to work more hours, as my mum is retired and has said multiple times she would be happy to have the youngest more. My sister chooses not to accept this offer and just continues to work two days a week and fraudulently claim instead. She doesn’t realise how lucky she is, in regards to child care. Most people have to pay nursery and child minder fees whereas she gets it for free.

Things came to a head when we were at our mums house on Tuesday night. Sister told us she was planning on booking Disney land Florida next year for the oldest child’s birthday and again jokingly said she wouldn’t be able to do it if it wasn’t for benefits. At this point, I lost my patience and we really got into it, ending up in a screaming match in fact, I’m just glad the kids weren’t there to see it all. Again I was honest and said I thought it was disgusting and that she had no morals. I told her I would understand if she was doing it to make ends meet (I appreciate it still doesn’t make it right) but that just wasn’t the case. She was doing it to have luxuries.

She said that I don’t realise how lucky I am because we have a mortgage and that there stuck renting. Yes, I have a mortgage, simply because we saved up for years to buy a house and went without holidays and other luxuries for quite a few years. We had to compromise, which I’m sure is what most people have to do. Unless your a bloody billionaire, you can’t have everything right? This isn’t my sisters attitude at all, she wants everything and she’ll do whatever she can to have it. She said that most of the money she was getting she was putting towards a mortgage. I told her I didn’t agree with it and that the benefits system isn’t there to support her buying a house and going on nice holidays. Like everyone else she would need to compromise on things and maybe not have so many holidays or go to bloody Disney Land. She ended up storming out of the house and we haven’t spoken since.

I spoke to my mum yesterday and she said that I should apologise. I really don’t think I’ve done anything wrong, but been honest. She didn’t like what she heard but it’s only the truth. My husband supports me wholeheartedly as he’s never liked my sister anyway. I’m prepared to go on with the rest of my life not speaking to her, but it does make me sad that we‘re not close.
I don’t think she will stop claiming anytime soon as she knows none of us would ever report her. I really don’t agree with it and I’m not sure if I’ll be able to get past it. It makes it worse because she jokes about it and thinks it’s funny. When I spoke to my mum she said that it wasn’t my sisters fault as they make it so easy for her to fraudulently claim and that most people would do the same thing. Yes, I agree they do make it easy for people to fraudulently claim and they should monitor these people more. I’ve seen first hand that all it takes is for the partner to change his address and hey presto your definitely a single parent.
I understand the DWP just take these people at face value but just because it’s easy to do it doesn’t mean you should. I think my mum is torn and just wants to make us both happy.

As I said above, I know how most of these threads turn out, particularly the one this morning and I’m sure most people will ask how I know all of this information. She is my sister, she’s not just someone I have on Facebook and I have seen all the proof and had the endless chats. How do we move on from this?

OP posts:
jelly79 · 01/12/2019 13:24

I don't blame you for being pissed off and resentful towards her. I would be too! I couldn't respect her choices and lifestyle so therefore would struggle to have a proper relationship with her. I could never report my sister but I probably could have a relationship with someone I had no respect for.

I'd say your choices are
1-have no relationship with her / or a civil and basic one for your mums sake
2- report her and have no relationship with her
3- accept it and have a relationship with her (unlikely)

Don't apologise though

dontgobaconmyheart · 01/12/2019 13:28

I wouldn't want a relationship with someone happy to defraud a system designed for those in legitimate dire need for their excessive financial gain. Sister or not. Hopefully somebody else will shop her even if you are happy to support it through your silence, OP.

TimeForNewStart · 01/12/2019 13:31

I think you sound jealous and like you’ve come on here, consciously or not, looking for ‘permission’ to report her.

GinandGingerBeer · 01/12/2019 13:57

It's not high drama though, if they're looking at recovery of 30-40k+ they can and do use a surveillance vehicle. You'd have no idea you were being watched as there won't even be anyone in the car. She could get a custodial sentence and he'll not be held accountable for any of it if it's not in his name.

crazyangel1981 · 01/12/2019 14:22

Report her.

Do it sooner rather than later as the DWP will catch up eventually.

saraclara · 01/12/2019 15:39

This is another thread where people demand that the OP behave in a certain way, secure in the knowledge that they are not going to be the ones dealing with the fallout for the rest of their days.

Reporting the sister might well mean the end of the family as a unit. OP could end up completely isolated from them all, including her mother and her nephews and nieces. Where will all the posters demanding that she reports her sister be then? Not here and taking any responsibility for her situation, that's for sure. And certainly not helping her pick up the pieces.

greenlavender · 01/12/2019 15:54

@PaterPower - that's a separate issue. It's still fraud, & 0.8% of the total Benefit Bill is still a lot of money.

@Havaina - you do know that Labour hasn't been in power for nearly 10 years. And I presume that this had happened in that period

Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 16:53

@TimeForNewStart I was waiting for someone to say that I'm jealous Grin I think it's actually quite sad that people use it as an excuse to justify someone committing a crime tbh.

Apologies if the timeline doesn't add up, he has lived with her full time for two years since the youngest was born but prior to that was living on and off with her as well (moved in for 4 months moved back out for 2 months and so on) so she's been doing it for around 3-4 years at least.

Anyway.... I've decided to leave it but I'm not going to socialise with them anymore and I think that goes for my mum too. She sent me a text this morning saying that my sister has been distraught all week and that she doesn't want to go on holiday anymore because of the things I've said, so I've ruined that now too Hmm. I get the feeling they see me as the big bad horrible sister just because I don't agree with her actions and tbh I don't want to spend time with people who view me that way. I think my mum just enables her and gives into her, like a child. It's always been the same.

Like a pp said my husband is my family now and in all honesty I don't think I can get past what she's doing. I honestly find it disgusting, as dramatic as that sounds. I feel she is irresponsible for taking such a risk and she will only have herself to blame when it goes tits up anyway.

OP posts:
Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 16:55

Just wanted to clarify as well for all the posters saying I've given so much details, it's because you always get people on these types of threads saying it can't possibly be true and that the op is a troll etc so I wanted to be as honest as possible and not leave any details out.

OP posts:
BlouseAndSkirt · 01/12/2019 17:15

“ Fine, Mum, she must make her own decisions. But in the end I do not want to see my little sister in court, prosecuted, and whatever the consequences of that, while having to pay back the money she has claimed. It is over £20,000 that she has had, and that is the amount of fraud she could be prosecuted for. They take it seriously. But Mum, you and she must do as you think best. I am out if it. Goodbye,

Somanysocks · 01/12/2019 17:30

Your sister and everyone else who thinks this is ok is precisely why there is not enough money for those who really need it.

The same as shoplifters, tax evaders and fraudsters and insurance cheaters - we all have to pay to cover the shortfall, why can't people understand that.

I think you should definitely report her, she sounds like a spoiled child.

strawberry2017 · 01/12/2019 17:48

I can't believe your mum is defending her actions, if she gone in to a shop or a bank and robbed them would that be ok? Because that's stealing too. She is stealing -it's not ok!

WhoKnewBeefStew · 01/12/2019 18:12

Boils my piss when I hear stories like your sister. She's stealing! Stealing from everyone, thousands and thousands of pounds by the sounds of things.

Set aside loyalty, jealousy, full time of part time work and family dynamics, she's still fucking stealing! I wonder if those being sympathetic toward her would be so generous if she stole from a shop or out of peoples pockets, or burgled houses.

WhoKnewBeefStew · 01/12/2019 18:20

get the feeling they see me as the big bad horrible sister just because I don't agree with her actions and tbh I don't want to spend time with people who view me that way

I in turn wouldn't want to spend time with thieves. I hope your Mum is happy to see her daughter going to Disneyland by spending money that she's stolen.

eeyore228 · 01/12/2019 18:27

Defo tricky. I wouldn’t want to dob in my sister. However people like yours seriously do my head in because there are those who are forced to struggle with childcare, taxes, other bills who don’t have the option of lower rent etc, they literally have to make ends meet. Then there are those who take the absolute piss and walk over every single person that the system is supposed to help. I know those who have stopped at 2 children because they can’t afford the rent on a bigger private rent and don’t have the option of council properties etc, they know they will struggle and then you have those who don’t give a damn, forgetting that without the tax payer they would have nothing. Karma can be a bitch and its possible your sister maybe caught out sooner rather than later because she deserves too.

Notprettyy · 01/12/2019 18:37

Had this with friends, honestly these kind of people using screw up somewhere down the line, on that basis I wouldn’t report here. If my sibling defrauded the system, I’d be keeping my distance.

WriteHon · 01/12/2019 20:54

Christmasslippers - you said of your mother:

"She sent me a text this morning saying that my sister has been distraught all week and that she doesn't want to go on holiday anymore because of the things I've said, so I've ruined that now too."

You must be feeling a great deal of hurt over this, but please don't take on guilt as well. Just because it is too painful for your sister to accept the seriousness of what she has done and is therefore trying to deflect that discomfort onto you, you don't have to accept the burden of it.

saraclara · 01/12/2019 21:52

"I imagine she knows I'm right then, mum. That the money she's spending on the trip was gained dishonestly and could result in her being prosecuted. I hope that helps her to make a decision that will take that guilt and threat of legal action (and even prison) away. I'm sorry that I ended up yelling at her, but if it's made her take anything in, maybe it worked"

oohnicevase · 02/12/2019 06:49

I'd report her too, I hate that there are so many people doing this and want a system where it's there if any of us NEED it .. she absolutely should not be going to bloody Disney on our taxes .. cheeky bloody fucker .

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