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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Huge argument with my sister

169 replies

Christmasslippers · 30/11/2019 16:38

This will be a long post so I apologise in advance. I decided to post in this section rather than AIBU as I can’t be doing with all the vultures and I thought I may get a more grown up response on here as I have seen first hand how some of these threads go down.

I have recently had a huge falling out with my sister and I don’t know how/if we’re going to survive it. Bit of a backstory-
We have never seen eye to eye, since we were kids really. We’ve tried to make an effort to get along for the sake of our mum as it makes her happy. I’m 32, married with no children, we both work full time in relatively well paid jobs and we plan to have children in the next couple of years. I have always worked full time since leaving college at 18 whereas my sister has bounced between working part time and being on benefits.

She currently works part time in a care home and her partner works full time for a conservatory installation company. They have 3 children together and rent a 3 bed house from the housing association. They have always had quite a rocky relationship and have been on and off over the years but things have been much better since the youngest was born two years ago. Now this is the issue:

She claims to be a single parent living alone with just the 3 kids. This is absolutely not the case as he has lived with them since the youngest was born. Because of her lies, she receives quite a fair bit in benefits that she is not entitled to, amounting to approx £1,200 a month along with her wages of around £600.
He earns around £1,300 after tax so they are bringing in at least 3k a month.
From the £1,200 she gets in benefits £400 is deducted to go towards her rent, she pays the other £200. She also receives a council tax reduction as she is supposedly “single”. Apart from that she doesn’t have many bills except car finance (both, he has a 4 year old BMW and she has a brand new Kia). They also obviously have to pay towards clothing and feeding the kids. They don’t have any child care costs as on the two days she is working my mum looks after the youngest child, other two are in school full time.

They’ve been able to get away with this as he listed his mum’s address as his current residence. Whenever he gives her money towards the bills and kids he pays in cash and he also parks his car a bit further down the road from the house incase any of the neighbours suspect anything. They also don’t talk about their situation to anyone except family, even her best friend doesn’t know the set up. They are very clever and know exactly how to con the system. We have spoken about the set up many times and I have been honest and expressed my disagreement with it. She’s always said she knows what she’s doing is wrong and that she worries in case she gets caught, but still continues to do it to this very day. I will add, she is not doing it to make ends meet either, It is purely down to greed and wanting to go on lovely holidays and have nice cars. She’s always said she wouldn’t be able to do any of those things if she didn’t fraudulently claim, which is simply not the truth. She would still be able to have those things, but she’d have to save up for them just like most people. I actually helped her a few months ago fill in a benefit calculator online to see how much she would be entitled to if she declared her partner living there and they were still eligible for help, albeit a lot less than what she is getting now (around £700 difference but still entitled to £500 a month) and she said this is why she won’t tell the truth. They would still be bringing in just over 2k a month and most of the rent would still be paid. She also has the option to work more hours, as my mum is retired and has said multiple times she would be happy to have the youngest more. My sister chooses not to accept this offer and just continues to work two days a week and fraudulently claim instead. She doesn’t realise how lucky she is, in regards to child care. Most people have to pay nursery and child minder fees whereas she gets it for free.

Things came to a head when we were at our mums house on Tuesday night. Sister told us she was planning on booking Disney land Florida next year for the oldest child’s birthday and again jokingly said she wouldn’t be able to do it if it wasn’t for benefits. At this point, I lost my patience and we really got into it, ending up in a screaming match in fact, I’m just glad the kids weren’t there to see it all. Again I was honest and said I thought it was disgusting and that she had no morals. I told her I would understand if she was doing it to make ends meet (I appreciate it still doesn’t make it right) but that just wasn’t the case. She was doing it to have luxuries.

She said that I don’t realise how lucky I am because we have a mortgage and that there stuck renting. Yes, I have a mortgage, simply because we saved up for years to buy a house and went without holidays and other luxuries for quite a few years. We had to compromise, which I’m sure is what most people have to do. Unless your a bloody billionaire, you can’t have everything right? This isn’t my sisters attitude at all, she wants everything and she’ll do whatever she can to have it. She said that most of the money she was getting she was putting towards a mortgage. I told her I didn’t agree with it and that the benefits system isn’t there to support her buying a house and going on nice holidays. Like everyone else she would need to compromise on things and maybe not have so many holidays or go to bloody Disney Land. She ended up storming out of the house and we haven’t spoken since.

I spoke to my mum yesterday and she said that I should apologise. I really don’t think I’ve done anything wrong, but been honest. She didn’t like what she heard but it’s only the truth. My husband supports me wholeheartedly as he’s never liked my sister anyway. I’m prepared to go on with the rest of my life not speaking to her, but it does make me sad that we‘re not close.
I don’t think she will stop claiming anytime soon as she knows none of us would ever report her. I really don’t agree with it and I’m not sure if I’ll be able to get past it. It makes it worse because she jokes about it and thinks it’s funny. When I spoke to my mum she said that it wasn’t my sisters fault as they make it so easy for her to fraudulently claim and that most people would do the same thing. Yes, I agree they do make it easy for people to fraudulently claim and they should monitor these people more. I’ve seen first hand that all it takes is for the partner to change his address and hey presto your definitely a single parent.
I understand the DWP just take these people at face value but just because it’s easy to do it doesn’t mean you should. I think my mum is torn and just wants to make us both happy.

As I said above, I know how most of these threads turn out, particularly the one this morning and I’m sure most people will ask how I know all of this information. She is my sister, she’s not just someone I have on Facebook and I have seen all the proof and had the endless chats. How do we move on from this?

OP posts:
Louise91417 · 01/12/2019 00:56

What has not having children got to do with it??? Has it occurred to you that perhaps op does not not have children through choice! The thread is about falsely claiming benefit! What a bloody nasty assumption!

Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 00:56

You do realise, there are other purposes in life other than having children right? Just because I don't have children doesn't mean I am alone and have an empty life. What a ridiculous statement to make.

I don't care if she goes to Disney land or the bloody moon for that matter, it's the fact she's using funds that she's not entitled to to pay for it. And no, even when I have children myself I still won't understand why she's fraudulently claimed thousands when she didn't need to. As I said before, it was pure and utter greed.

OP posts:
Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 00:57

Thank you @Louise91417, I wish some people could hear themselves sometimes.

OP posts:
BrokenLogs · 01/12/2019 00:58

I think your sister has found your thread OP 😂

Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 01:00

Haha I doubt it @BrokenLogs my sisters grammar is much better than that Grin

OP posts:
Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 01:01

I actually have no idea what she's talking about in regards to my mums health either. My mum is perfectly healthy Grin how on earth would she look after a two year old two days a week if she wasn't Grin

OP posts:
carolina21 · 01/12/2019 01:03

I will speak to mum

Jodie77 · 01/12/2019 01:05

Is there a full moon or something ?

Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 01:07

There must be @Jodie77 as that person definitely isn't my sister. My sister doesn't even use Mumsnet. I call bluff

OP posts:
theoriginalmadambee · 01/12/2019 01:09

Put the booze bottle down carolina 🤣

Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 01:10

Changed your name sis? I preferred the old one @carolina21 Wink

OP posts:
theoriginalmadambee · 01/12/2019 01:12

Hope that wasn't for me, was talking to Carolina Grin.

Mydogmylife · 01/12/2019 01:13

@carolina21
Good grief! Are you the sister?

Christmasslippers · 01/12/2019 01:15

Haha yes it was meant for her @Madambee, I actually have no idea who this person is so it's quite funny.

OP posts:
theoriginalmadambee · 01/12/2019 01:18

Someone's sister is in for it with their dm tomorrow Confused

bigmamama · 01/12/2019 01:19

Although I can understand your frustration, maybe she does have more of a reason to claim, maybe the jokes and the Disney land is just more for show ? I am a part time working parent and childcare is a fortune -it stops me working more as I can't afford it.
Having 3 kids holding down a job and running a house is very costly maybe she couldn't afford to do all this if she told the truth and only received what the Dwp thinks she should then get?
Maybe they have debt and are paying stuff off from his wage. You never really know what's going on only what your told.
Like you said if you report her you don't know what will happen could you live with them consequences ? Just so it eases your mind? It's not your claim or your life she's clearly old enough to do what she wants and she may just happen to have suffer that in the end anyway.
Leave it alone

RichTwoTurkeyFriend · 01/12/2019 01:52

To all the PP saying ‘you can’t report her, she’s your sister’ - I’m genuinely interested to know where your line is with reporting crimes.
Would you not report someone who defrauded you out of £30,000 if they had children because you wouldn’t want them to go to jail? What about drug dealing? Low level? High level?
Assault? Abuse?
OP, I feel for you because his is really tricky.
On balance (and this isn’t having a go at you at all, please don’t read it that way) I would have reported her in the beginning when the consequences would have been much smaller. The issue now is that it’s tens of thousands of pounds - this is big bickies I would think from a legal perspective.
A PP suggested you give her two months to stop or you will report her yourself. I don’t think this is a bad idea, and might pull it up without her being caught. The other thing to remember is that the longer it goes on, absolutely the penalties are going to be harsher....

saraclara · 01/12/2019 02:07

@RichTwoTurkeyFriend those offences would be less likely to be overlooked by OP's mum. And the problem is mum supporting sis if OP reports her.

RichTwoTurkeyFriend · 01/12/2019 02:27

@saraclara you don’t know that at all. Many, many people turn a blind eye to abuse and violence.
When I spoke to my mum she said that it wasn’t my sisters fault as they make it so easy for her to fraudulently claim and that most people would do the same thing.
The fact she’s blaming the government for her daughters fraud and deception does point to her being very comfortable justifying very poor behaviour - who knows where she would draw the line?

Mamsnetter2020 · 01/12/2019 03:18

1st YABU it’s Disney WORLD 😀

Also when your area gets changed to universal credit she’ll be screwed anyway so you just have to bide your time.

FreeBedForFlys · 01/12/2019 03:24

Report her. I would in a heartbeat.

smileyforest · 01/12/2019 03:30

Yes , she is your sister . You have nieces and nephews. You're completely within your rights the way you are feeling. In my opinion , I would distance myself . I would tell your Mum and your sister why you will keep your distance . It's morally and lawfully wrong what she is doing , it's stealing and how can you support that ?? Sorry for the children but I'm afraid I couldn't socialise with the family . Feel for you OP x

HarryElephante · 01/12/2019 03:58

Is that you, Boris?

CruellaDeVille2019 · 01/12/2019 04:35

Well I think this thread has shown which MN users wouldn't think twice about or possibly are already taking the piss out of the benefits system themselves 🙄

I think the suggestion about giving your sister 2 months to stop fraudulently claiming before you report her is a good one. Don't expect it to go down well with certain family members though. The biggest issue with that being that she has already shown that she is a liar. Could you believe her if she told you that she had stop claiming fraudulently?

All the best OP whatever you decide. It's not a nice position to be in.

Frenchw1fe · 01/12/2019 05:03

My elderly dm and df have been separated for years. When my mum had an operation she convalesced with us except for 1 week when we were on holiday and she stayed with my df. The hospital sent a follow up appt for my dm to df's home.
1 week later df got a letter from council asking if his circumstances had changed as he was paying single person council tax but someone was living with him.
We assume the postman reported him to the council.
You never know who is watching you.

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