Reconciliation after estrangement?

[Albinoni]

I have NC'd for this but have posted in the past about my relationship with DD1 and was grateful for the advice and support which I received. The posts have since been deleted, at my request, but some of you may remember 'Lobster Boy', and my concerns that DD was in a controlling relationship and that I risked losing her.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified as DD seemed to become more and more withdrawn from the family, saying that her BF was her family now. She ghosted all of the family entirely for six months - apparently she just blocked us all - then there were occasional calls and she did send birthday cards etc. She moved house without providing an address and we didn't see her for two and a half years. I cannot begin to describe how painful that period was for me and DH and her sisters, but those of you who have been through this process of living bereavement will understand.

Anyway, the good news is that there has been a reconciliation following a lunch on neutral ground, in a restaurant, earlier this year (she lives hundreds of miles away from us). Prior to that, she had provided her address, so that we could send some books to her which are relevant to a course which she is intending to take next year. At the lunch, she said that they had married the previous year, and we said how pleased we were, and contact continued to improve.

The following month they asked if they could borrow some money to put towards buying a property and we agreed. Shortly after that, DD told me she was expecting a baby (due any day now), which I was overjoyed about. Then, a few weeks after that - and this is the part I am really struggling with - we received a letter from DD and SIL enclosing photos of the 14 month old which they already had. The accompanying letter was quite upsetting as it said they hadn't told us about DGC because they didn't want her to experience broken relationships and they hadn't been sure whether or not they wanted us involved at all, but they felt guilty at taking our money and not telling us about DGC.

DD and I subsequently had an emotional conversation and, since then, DD has been in contact with me virtually every day with messages and photos and is behaving almost as though nothing has happened. She says I can't think about the past or what I have missed and clearly wants to move forward. I know that she is right in that we cannot change the past and she assures me that she definitely does want us to be involved.

But I am in such turmoil over this. Obviously I am thrilled and excited about the reconciliation and the DGC, but I feel so desperately hurt and upset that she didn't tell any of us about all of these things, especially as I believed that we were close before. I am really struggling, to be honest, although it's early days and there is a lot to come to terms with.

We haven't met DGC1 yet as I think we both felt that it would be better to wait for the baby to be born and then meet them both together, when the emotions have died down a bit. The last thing I want to do is cause her any stress at this time and I sense that they are anxious at our meeting her PILs for the first time. I am also anxious about it, although they sound like lovely people and have been very supportive to DD. But goodness knows what they must think of us. I am also worried about becoming attached to the DGC in case they are taken away from me. I just couldn't put myself through all that again.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice if you have been in a similar situation. How easy was it to reconcile? Did the whole family reconcile or was it a piecemeal process? Did you involve any professional help, such as a counsellor or family mediator? Has it worked out? Are things the same and can the relationship ever really recover or is it just different? I really don't want to mess this up, as I have realised how fragile relationships can be, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

This thread reminds me of a similar situation but the person in question estranged from their family and friends is male.

Thank you French and Still. I also had a long conversation with DD2 last night who is very astute and supportive, says that she feels frustrated that I allow myself to be abused and that I need to reinforce my boundaries. She says her friends think that having a baby and not telling your family sounds like something off the Jeremy Kyle show!

I have read again the letter which accompanied the photos of our first granddaughter, which I suppose is a sign of progress, as it was too painful to read it again before. I won't quote all of it, but here are some extracts -

'We didn't share this with you because our relationship with you has been so strained these past few years. When we first knew of the pregnancy we were not in contact with you and that arrangement was better than the preceding period of conflict.

Given the state of affairs, we decided to keep the information to ourselves as to be honest we were not sure we wanted you to be involved.... Perhaps being parents yourselves you can understand how protective we feel. We wanted to surround ourselves and (DGD1) with secure positive relationships rather than embroil her in our broken relationship...She is the most important person in our lives and we would do anything to protect her. Perhaps you will not understand but we feel we acted in her best interests by doing this and that has always been our top priority.

However, the recent financial support you have given us as well as the promise to support us while completing the PGCE next year have made us reflect on things a lot. We really appreciate both and did not in good conscience feel we could keep this from you anymore. We would like to move forward and try to create better family relations and we hope this can be an opportunity for us to start a fresh chapter.

We have enclosed some photos for you to look at if you wish up to the age of about 10 months. We are able to send more recent photos via email.

Whilst this will perhaps. come as a shock to you both we hope you can try to understand.'

Albinoni I couldn't just read your post and run.
You are in such a difficult position and are walking on eggs.
DD1 gets upset when she sees photographs of her past family life because they show the truth rather than the false reality LB has spun.
You are playing a long game here.
Softly, softly.
Thank goodness you have the love and support of your dh and other dc. It is really difficult for you all.

Just read all this and I feel really sad for you.
I juts wanted to say that I was in a very violent relationship from 16 to 19 and had two children.
My mum was busy with her own life and I always swear if it happens to mine id be different. You are doing the right thing to remain in contact so that if she ever needs to she can come to you for support.
What a sad tale.

That letter is so contrived and manipulative - however it shows that they are 100% controlled by money.

That is the contract that they are setting out to you - it is financial and emotional blackmail.

You are complicit and will get v hurt is you accept this contract.

Sadly I agree with Gutterton that the contact contract is financial.

The “conflict” in LB’s mind was not handing over the original “loan” as requested.

It is good that you have a line of communication open. I also think that it is good that you are planning to go and see them, after all in years to come it can’t be thrown in your face that you were the ones who stopped contact and made no effort to see them.

Maybe when you get there someone will be “too poorly so can’t possibly see any visitors at the moment”, but at least you will have tried.

Are there any sights in the area you can see if you don’t get to actually meet them, and post the pictures “it was wonderful to see the Angel of the North, Arthur’s Seat, Giant’s Causeway” etc etc.

Definitely keep instagramming happy family snaps while staying friendly and supportive. Maybe the odd one with wish could be here caption but only sometimes so it doesn’t feel too targeted.

Sending so much love and support to you especially for the upcoming visit.
He sounds truly dreadful and she seems to have been sucked well and truly in to his web of evil.

Morning @Albinoni I heard the adagio on the radio yesterday and realised your thread had dropped off my list.

I’ve just read your updates and I think your message to them is perfect. So eloquently put and it will be interesting to see what response you do get if any, although I fear there will be a last minute cancellation.

I do genuinely believe he is brainwashing her and having read the section of the letter it’s horrible and clearly very financially motivated.

Have you booked a B&b for your stay?

The big worry I would have is if LB is volatile/violent.
If your Dd1 eventually sees the reality of her life with him and tries to leave I would worry that his reaction might be "Well if I can't have her/ them..."
Sadly too often we've seen the results of such thinking in the news.

Sending so much love and support to you especially for the upcoming visit.
He sounds truly dreadful and she seems to have been sucked well and truly in to his web of evil. She has clearly got a lot of life learning to do, how she thinks both houses in his name is sensible I I don't know.
Just try and stay calm when you visit. I feel like he may be setting you up to fail somehow x

Thank you so much everybody. I can't tell you how reassuring it is to have an objective view from people, as sometimes I feel so swallowed up by it all that I can't think straight. When I get to that stage I find it better to rely on DH.

I don't actually use Instagram myself and DD3 has blocked DD1 from her social media. I don't think DD2 has blocked her as such, but doesn't post that much anyway. I send DD1 family photos sometimes by text or What's App, but not to make her feel bad, but just to share what we are doing and to remind her that we are still here.

Ghost, I think you may be right. We have already had to change the rail tickets once, as she said five weeks after the operation was too soon, even though I said we don't want you to entertain us, drive us or cook etc, just a gentle stroll or a chat on the sofa would be fine. But maybe it is too much for her emotionally to see us when she is still feeling vulnerable after the birth, especially when we haven't met either of the DGDs before. I said 'I am your mum, you don't have to make an effort for me. I wish I lived nearer so I could look after you'. But she says too soon, LB is looking after her, and so we have rearranged for March. I feel so upset that she doesn't want to see me any sooner and it means DGD1 will be 20 months when we go and finally meet her, if we do. We are staying in a good hotel, so will do what you say Ghost, and try to make the most of it, whatever. I feel very anxious about it all, to be honest, as I know it will all be stage managed, the DGDs will be dangled in front of us and snatched away. But DH wants to go and I do want to keep lines of communication open and also see things for myself, how she is, how they are.

I think you need to "update" DD1 and SIL about some financial issues and ill health you have that is going to massively impact on you and DH financially. Caught up in a pension scandal or house needs to be underpinned and insurance won't pay out??

Basically sewing the seeds that you don't have money to either give or loan them...

I would seriously review your will and ensure money that has been given to DD1 (you won't get it back) has an equivalent for DDs 2 & 3 perhaps pay into their home buying ISAs or similar?

SIL may well want to bleed you dry whereas you can make it clear the only help available is childcare in person...

Spot on RandomMess

At present I would write DD1 out of the will. Redirect her share to the DGD with either DD2 or 3 holding the power.

I really hope that March works out for you all, but I fear it will not. The more I read this thread the more it seems like he is controlling her like a puppet. The letter I'm sure were his words, so cold and clinical as you said no emotion whatsoever.

If they continue to mess you around re the meeting, are you prepared to say your piece, tell your DD that she is being controlled and manipulated by LB and whilst you will always love her and your door is always open for her and your GC's, you are no longer willing to tolerate the way you have been treated by them (particularly LB) and to break contact until she see's sense.

I do hope it doesn't come to that for you though.

@Albinoni I am so, so sorry. What an awful situation. I think you are right to be guarded.

We are NC with DH’s parents (and have got married and had a child since going NC). I would never, ever ask them for money, even if we were reconciled.

I hope that things work out for your family, but that you are also doing what you can to safeguard your own wellbeing.

That letter is appalling, the implication that your family is a negative force that your DGD needs protecting from is so hurtful and unfair. Does it sound like something your DD1 would have written or all from him? I would remain as detached as you can in case it doesn't happen in March, or even, if you can bear to, agree about warmer weather and say maybe April would be better? Might panic LB somewhat if he sees his cash flow threatened by even mild indifference or lack of power over you? Or would that just backfire? @Gutterton has good advice. This thread is so painful to read because it absolutely could happen to any of us. Wishing you every bit of luck and am so glad you have your DH and other DDs and are not alone with this nightmare. And us of course!

I agree, so painful to read as this could happen to any parent.
I also agree that the comments about your grandchild needing protection from you are particularly cruel.

Are there any organisations who might give advice on what to do here, for families of people in controlling relationships, does anyone know ?
There is the Freedom Programme, your dd would not be able to do it yet as she is too trapped, but maybe worth a look for you OP ?

Yes good point about the will.
Yours might say - x 3 share equally. But it seems if she is taking plenty now , that is not fair on your other daughters who have not been problematic.

This article from The New York Times - looks at strategies for getting someone out of a cult.....think mind control is the same.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2018/09/26/magazine/how-to-get-someone-out-of-a-cult.amp.html

Oh I wondered if there was any advice on cults anywhere, that is a good thing to post as the dynamic is so similar.

Great article Gutterton. This one might be of interest too Albinoni. www.everydayhealth.com/columns/voices-of-experience/how-you-can-help-someone-controlling-relationship/

Hello OP I very rarely post on MN and am a regular name changer, but I've been following your thread over the last couple of weeks and had to post. I am so sorry you are in this situation. You wrote and were quoted up thread the following:

'when I first received the photos of DGD1, my initial reaction was that I am very pleased for you, I wish you well, but that we have nothing else to say to each other, I just can't put myself through that again.'

Sometimes, our initial reactions are the correct ones, but we allow ourselves to overrule what our inner intuition is telling us. Maybe something to think about?

IMO, a reconciliation can only be successfully attempted if both parties can demonstrate they have grown and learned from the situation. Your DD clearly has not. You also seem like you have not - you are going straight back down the route you followed with them previously and are highly likely to be hurt again in the same way. However unwittingly, you have played a role in this and if you keep taking the same actions, you're going to get the same results while also potentially alienating your other two daughters.

While he is clearly abusive and controlling, I do think she will know on some level how badly she's behaved and how terribly she's hurt and continues to hurt you, her father and her sisters. She does have responsibility in this too, and as painful as this is to face I think you need to have the courage to really and truly see that. It's part of loving her honestly and fully - the bad as well as he good. And please don't forget about how much her sisters will be hurting too. It is a traumatic experience for you all.

In your situation I think I would see if you can find a way to take a break to give you a chance to get some perspective. As far as possible this would mean limiting contact, limiting the amount of time you talk about and ruminate on the situation etc. I really think going to meet your GC is a terrible idea at the moment- they will be used as a tool to blackmail and hurt you further. Focus on yourself and your relationships with your other daughters. Are you in any sort of therapy?

I am sorry if any of this sounds harsh but I think you need to wake up here. Please think about getting some therapy from a decent and experienced therapist who knows about estrangement. My best wishes to you.

Do you know why DD3 felt the need to block DD1 from her social media - did they have a row?