Reconciliation after estrangement?

[Albinoni]

I have NC'd for this but have posted in the past about my relationship with DD1 and was grateful for the advice and support which I received. The posts have since been deleted, at my request, but some of you may remember 'Lobster Boy', and my concerns that DD was in a controlling relationship and that I risked losing her.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified as DD seemed to become more and more withdrawn from the family, saying that her BF was her family now. She ghosted all of the family entirely for six months - apparently she just blocked us all - then there were occasional calls and she did send birthday cards etc. She moved house without providing an address and we didn't see her for two and a half years. I cannot begin to describe how painful that period was for me and DH and her sisters, but those of you who have been through this process of living bereavement will understand.

Anyway, the good news is that there has been a reconciliation following a lunch on neutral ground, in a restaurant, earlier this year (she lives hundreds of miles away from us). Prior to that, she had provided her address, so that we could send some books to her which are relevant to a course which she is intending to take next year. At the lunch, she said that they had married the previous year, and we said how pleased we were, and contact continued to improve.

The following month they asked if they could borrow some money to put towards buying a property and we agreed. Shortly after that, DD told me she was expecting a baby (due any day now), which I was overjoyed about. Then, a few weeks after that - and this is the part I am really struggling with - we received a letter from DD and SIL enclosing photos of the 14 month old which they already had. The accompanying letter was quite upsetting as it said they hadn't told us about DGC because they didn't want her to experience broken relationships and they hadn't been sure whether or not they wanted us involved at all, but they felt guilty at taking our money and not telling us about DGC.

DD and I subsequently had an emotional conversation and, since then, DD has been in contact with me virtually every day with messages and photos and is behaving almost as though nothing has happened. She says I can't think about the past or what I have missed and clearly wants to move forward. I know that she is right in that we cannot change the past and she assures me that she definitely does want us to be involved.

But I am in such turmoil over this. Obviously I am thrilled and excited about the reconciliation and the DGC, but I feel so desperately hurt and upset that she didn't tell any of us about all of these things, especially as I believed that we were close before. I am really struggling, to be honest, although it's early days and there is a lot to come to terms with.

We haven't met DGC1 yet as I think we both felt that it would be better to wait for the baby to be born and then meet them both together, when the emotions have died down a bit. The last thing I want to do is cause her any stress at this time and I sense that they are anxious at our meeting her PILs for the first time. I am also anxious about it, although they sound like lovely people and have been very supportive to DD. But goodness knows what they must think of us. I am also worried about becoming attached to the DGC in case they are taken away from me. I just couldn't put myself through all that again.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice if you have been in a similar situation. How easy was it to reconcile? Did the whole family reconcile or was it a piecemeal process? Did you involve any professional help, such as a counsellor or family mediator? Has it worked out? Are things the same and can the relationship ever really recover or is it just different? I really don't want to mess this up, as I have realised how fragile relationships can be, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Glad you’re home safe, I imagine it will take a few days to fully process everything.

I keep checking. I hope you are ok. Most worried for your DH with all the coronavirus around as well. Hoping it doesn't delay your next steps.

Thank you so much everybody for your kindness and concern. Sorry not to have updated yesterday, but I just felt wiped out.

DH is ok but DD3, who was due to come for the weekend, has come down with some symptoms and is self isolating for a fortnight. We are due to stay with some friends early next week for a couple of nights, but it involves a long journey on public transport, including crossing London. The girls are begging us not to go, but DH is currently keen to go and doesn't want to let our friends down. He says that he is not worried about the virus, as the odds are small compared to what he has. However, I am worried about his vulnerability as a cancer patient, as well as the potential pressure on hospital services at the time he will be most in need of care.

I am still 'processing' the visit to DD. It was a difficult couple of days, although the second day was much better than the first. Overall, I am very pleased that we went as it has made DH happy, but I was very relieved to get back and that the trip is over. It is lucky that we were able to do it, in the nick of time, before the virus hits heavier and spreads further, making it ill advised to travel.

DGD1 is the image of DH at the same age and they seemed to form a special bond instantly - at least, DD1 is convinced of it, but perhaps she either wants to believe it or is just being kind. They are both lovely children and DD1 is an excellent mother. LB doesn't seem to help much at all, although I am sure he loves DD1 and the DGDs. DD1 was cooking and holding the baby at the same time, while LB just sat on the sofa. The house is full of half finished projects, walls of bare plaster, half of the kitchen units missing etc. On Day 2, DD1 asked me if I could prep the chicken - which only involved putting oil and seasoning on it - whilst she changed the DGDs. I was more than happy to do it, but I did think why couldn't he change the children or prep the chicken.

DD1 seemed to make a big effort when we went, LB much less so, although he was better on day 2. DH thinks we needed to go through day 1, which was very uncomfortable, with a lot of plain speaking - mainly by me - in order to get to day 2. To be honest, we were thinking of not meeting on day 2 at all, just staying in the hotel, but the day progressively improved and ended on a much better note.

We met LB's parents for coffee on day 2 - initiated by them - and they were lovely and kept telling me how wonderful DD1 is and how they regard her as a daughter, what a happy family DD and LB are etc. I know they meant well and I really like them, but it was a bit hurtful to think that DD1 is more their daughter than mine, or has been for at least the last few years. There was a lovely photo at DD1's house, of DD1 and her MIL standing close together and smiling, on DD1's wedding day, which cut very deeply.

I also feel very upset because I think that if DH's time is limited - and he has a difficult and advanced form of cancer - that there were all those moments of joy which he has missed - his daughter's wedding, the birth and babyhood of DGD1. I can forgive for myself but I am finding it hard to forgive for him, although he already has and is just pleased that we have visited and he has met the DGDs. He is a much nicer, more forgiving person than I am.

DD1 is clearly keen to continue with the reconciliation and keeps sending messages, photos, recipes etc, and I do respond, but I feel a bit numb and, if I'm honest, these communications don't bring me any joy at present. She is expressing great concern over DH, but I think that she has shown no love or care and only bothered to see him once in three years. I know that you have to accept the things that you can't change, but sometimes I find it difficult.

Anyway, the trip is done, it made DH happy, the relationship is improved, at least superficially, and I now need to focus on DH.

For your own well being can you encourage your DH and DD1 to message each other directly re:himself (so you aren't being used as a conduit)

That sounds tough. Take care of yourself so you can continue to be there for DH.

Perhaps it would be better for the friends to come to you as the travel is so tiring to DH?

If it helps settle your mind this is a pic my dd took on the tube about 4.30 yesterday

Argh it’s not showing, it was heading into rush hour and she was the only one on it, also other dd went to London earlier in the week and at mid day they had the natural history museum to themselves it was practically empty.

I agree with getting him to start messaging her and you maybe block her number and just check the messages once a day or every other day.

Did she say anything about the wedding? At some point she is going to have to answer for her cruelty.

I have a feeling she's going to have the shock of her selfish life the day she's in a room with her sisters again.

If I was them I wouldn't hold back. I'd rip her apart.

I’ve reread your update several times and I can not imagine the hurt you must be feeling, as even though the visit had it’s positive moments, it really brought home the level of cruelty she has aimed at you. That picture the most, I would have thought she would have had the decency to hide it.

Wishing dd3 all the best, stay safe

Lots of v positive bids for connection from DD1 and a lot of effort from her. This means she still loves you all dearly if you sensed it was all genuine from her. This is a wonderful thing to salvage from the last 5 years and to savour. A few days ago you didn’t know what you were facing.

She will not be able to emotionally acknowledge her wrong doing over the last 5 years - because that would be betraying / revealing LB and their RS as she still sees it - ie her whole existence. She is not ready to do this - yet. But the guilt and sorrow will be within her and it looks like she is trying to make it up to you within the constraints of her RS with LB.

So even though your hurt is 100% valid it is not useful to share it with her now. Might be time to just accept and adapt now. Accept that he/she hurt you all deeply. Adapt by knowing SHE doesn’t want to hurt you. Adapt by seeking therapy to process the pain she has caused you because you are unable to process it through your RS with her. I can’t imagine seeing her wedding photo with MIL. Torturous.

It must be v comforting that you can see that she is a wonderful mother gaining deep joy and love from her DDs and coping well.

She will in time see LB as a lazy, arrogant parent especially in contrast to her own father. This will play on her mind over time.

Definitely concerned for your DH travelling. He is a v v ill man and in the highest risk for CV being severe and life threatening if he got it. He must be emotionally and physically shattered after this week’s trip. He needs to be in best possible shape for his chemo. Even without risk of CV I imagine that they would delay his chemo if he had even a basic cold in normal times - now they wouldn’t even let him in the hospital and would expect him to self isolate wasting precious time.

Aw I can see why the trip has left you feeling down and flat in spite of the huge positive that it made your DH happy. Good that LB's parents are nice although tbh I had somehow hoped they would admit he was a tricky customer and always had been! And as for the MIL gushing that she considers your DD1 a daughter in these circumstances, not really the most sensitive thing to have said. Of course you are sad to see the wedding picture with her and not you in it.
I think these negatives have brought you down and in a few days you will rally and be able to engage with news and pictures of your DGDs. It's enraging that the work-shy fop that is LB is not helping more with his children/cooking etc but if DD1 is happy that has to be the main thing and at least you don't have to witness it day in day out.
It must be very hard not to tip over into extreme melancholy with the background worry about your DH and I hope you can express your feelings here and we can try and help and boost your spirits in any way we can. I don't want to be unrealistic about his prognosis as it sounds very serious but I hope there is a good chance the chemo can keep him healthy and symptom free for a long time.

Seeing that picture must have been excruciating. I’m so so sorry 😐 I too would have thought she would have hidden it.
His parents also sound very insensitive to the situation. Maybe if you’ve never experienced this kind of estrangement/rejection it’s more difficult to imagine the pain or maybe they have been told a pack of lies . Whatever the situation most people would surely have more sense than to say those things .

However it’s great that your DH enjoyed the visit after all that was your motivation for going wasn’t it? What an amazing DW you are !

Is there anyway you could get a taxi to your friends to avoid public transport?
Wishing you all , including DD3, the very best .
💐 💐 ♥️ ♥️

Just take a moment to get your thoughts together. Your focus must now be on your DH

The wedding day photo has made me well up, so I can only imagine what a stab to the heart that was. Cruel and thoughtless to leave that up.
I am sure they are delighted with your dd, having their feckless, lazy, callous monster of a son married to someone who does all the work at home and cares for the children must be wonderful. They sound well meaning but horrendously insensitive.
At some point you will need to hold your dd to account for what has happened, she does seem to be blithely unaware of the grief and pain she has caused, even though she is so influenced by LB she still needs to look at her place in this.
I am very glad that you have seen the babies and that the meeting was not too bad. I feel angry on your behalf though ! What on earth were his parents thinking, impressing on you both, your DH so unwell, what a lovely relationship they all have ?

I am glad you are back safe and that the visit brought some positive moments for you both. As always very best wishes 💐💐💐💐 and strength to you DH and dds2 and 3.

His parents sound very self focused and thoughtless...that must have been so hard for you both. Meanwhile the photo...I suspect that photo is part of the lb campaign and dd1 wouldn't have been able to remove it without a row. But she still has had agency in this as in everything else. And she knows you as you know her, and she knows the message it sent even if that knowledge is buried deep at the moment. One day she will have to face that and her other actions, if only to herself.

Take care of yourself Albioni. Distance yourself as much as you can from LB and his plans at this time when so much else is asked of you.

Albinoni Sorry, tactless to spell your name wrong 💐💐💐

I am glad your DH enjoyed the visit and that you met your granddaughters. However it also sounds a very sad and painful trip for you: seeing LB being lazy and DD1 being so subservient to him as well as the cruelty of the photo. That is unnecessarily cruel imo and would have triggered a resurgence of grief over what you have lost.

Did you get impression of what LBs parents think of him not working? Do they work?

SirVixofVixHall -brilliant post.

May i add that LB may have spun his parents a lie re you snd your dh and the relationship you have with dd1.
Could and would be all lies

Maybe the ILs were being socially clumsy, thinking you would be comforted by the fact they had drawn her in like their own DD?

I still think that she is in a cult like / Stockholm Syndrome mental place with him.

He targeted her and emotionally abused her. It has been v painful for her but she has just submitted to his will - we have no idea what threats she lives under. I remember some of your earlier threads around the time she had just graduated and he still had a year to go - she was back and forth to home / holidays and seemed v emotional and distressed with him not knowing which way to jump. She jumped one way and submitted 100% to him. But this tells me that there is a lot of stress in the foundations of the RS - which won’t have gone anywhere.

All you can do is keep being the loving role model that you are - at this time you are modelling prioritising caring for DH and recognising the love of your other DDs. Up thread there was a suggestion that you tease her subtlety with all the lovely things you do with your other DDs. If she feels out in the cold you might shake up her emotions a bit.

I would imagine that she will be feeling quite lonely now that you have left. Was there any commitment to meet up again?

I remember your earlier threads though I probably didn't post on them. What a sorry mess this has all turned out to be.

Before I read that your husband was ill I was concerned the grandchildren would be dangled pay per view every time your Daughter & LB wanted money from you. Now with your husband's illness the dynamic seems to have changed and I am so sorry that it took something like that.

Your daughter may keep sending all the messages, recipes, photos etc that she likes. It sounds like she wants to brush the last few years under the carpet, not acknowledge what happened or her part in it & pick up where she left off, being daddy's girl or whatever. Whereas you know things are not & cannot be the same - you know, and have had such a cruel reminder, that she got married without telling you, that she didn't tell you about your first grandchild. However your relationship develops & hopefully improves going forward you can never unknow those things, that she did them or colluded with them.

I hope as time goes on you reach some kind of peace with it all - whether that is no contact, low contact or some kind of regular contact - but any ongoing contact will be different, though not necessarily bad, just different. You seem to realise that but she doesn't yet it appears to me. I think she is in line for some home truths if she tries to ease back into the family fold without some explanations, especially for your other daughters, if tensions & emotions are running high depending on your husband's progress.

I do not put all the blame on your daughter, she sounds to be in an abusive relationship which she is not ready to recognise or leave yet, but she has behaved badly, whatever the reasons for that behaviour.

I do wish you and your husband well. I am glad he was pleased to see his grandchildren & wish him all the best for his treatment.

I posted on the thread much earlier and have now caught up with recent updates. Firstly I am so, so sorry to hear about your DH. What devastating news and an awful time for you and your family.

I am wondering if LB is feeling a slight shift in power and trying to re-gain his hold by this move to do his NQT year. He likes to remain 'ahead' and will consolidate his power/authority by being a qualified teacher while she is still training. On a much simpler level he might be hoping that your DD can do her PGCE training placements in whichever school he ends up working in - so he can keep an eye on her and neutralise the mind-broadening effects of contact with colleagues, mentors and other students.

However, I do think the move to Brighton is something to encourage. It will be far easier to find small windows of time in which to see her if you also live in the South East.

JennyWoodentop
That was a great post.

Albinoni I certainly don't blame you for being angry with dd1 - she had support from her parents to leave abusive LB but chose not to and then went on to marry him and have children with him while still looking for handouts from you and treating uou despicably.

No doubt her siblings will let her know in the future what she did and how she hurt her beloved and now poorly dad and her loving mum.
The stress certainly won't have helped your dh.
Wishing your husband a speddy recovery.
Vent on here if it helps.

I'm not sure if I have shared that I am very LC with my parents. My childhood was very unhappy and dysfunctional, they are in denial...

Anyhow I still invited them to my wedding because I felt it was a horrific kick in the teeth not to. They then wanted me to invite my brother, I didn't want to but I compromised and did. Mother never congratulated me or said anything nice only that I should get myself checked out for X condition as she has it 🙄

The point I'm making is that there is not excuse for her having not extended the olive branch and tested the waters to have invited you.

Please just focus on DH and DD2 and DD3 for the time being and look after yourself x

www.google.com/amp/s/www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/the-reality-corner/201302/behind-the-veil-inside-the-mind-men-who-abuse%3famp

The article attached is written by a professional who has worked with thousands of abusive men. Some of the key points below ring true, for me, re LB, from what I have read on this thread. Although not aware that he has exposed DD1 to physical violence, yet, we know that he insisted on an open relationship when they got together (not sure if he does now) and I suspect that there is also fertility abuse and control also at play.

Any woman can get gas-lit into these types of RS and are held in invisible chains of fear and shame.

Profile of an Abuser:

1: Jealousy; questioning partner constantly about whereabouts, jealous of the time she spends away from him

2: Controlling behavior; the victim cannot get a job, leave the house, or bathe without permission

3: Isolation; makes partner move away from family and friends so that she depends on him solely for support

4: Forces sex against partner's will

5: Holds very rigid gender roles; partner's job is to cater to the abuser.

Diagnosis of Abusers:

1: Antisocial Personality Disorder; deceitfulness, repeatedly lying, use of aliases or conning others for personal profit or pleasure

2: Borderline Personality Disorder; a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships by alternating between extreme idealizations and devaluation

3: Narcissistic Personality Disorder; a grandiose sense of self-importance

I would say that he has a heady mix of all three.

I get that DD1 has “colluded” with LB. I get that their actions are shocking, devastating and unforgivable. And Albinoni’s deep hurt and anger is 100% valid.

I just think that DD1 is a victim of domestic abuse. That this RS will deteriorate and the abuse will escalate - it always does. That one day she will try to escape and she will need someone to help her.

I don’t think it will be anytime soon and Albinoni needs to really look after herself and DH and immerse themselves in the love and joy of DD2/3, living positively for today.

I might well be way off beam here.

It's very likely dd1 (with LB's coaching, of course) believes the estrangement was your choice. That if anyone needs to apologise it's you. Remember, they see their role is to discipline you.

Maybe this last visit has shifted that a bit. It's always surprising when people meet those they've built up to be the bogie, only to be met with a bog standard human being - someone/s who has been exceptionally dear in the flesh in the past. She'll be confused I expect, under the surface.

I don't think people like LB do their dastardly stuff obviously, it is oh so subtle, barely perceptible: slowly slowly catchy monkey. They settle in for the long haul.

This last development has unsettled all that, thrown it all up in the air, all his hard work. She won't be quite on the same page as him. It may take her a while to realise he is devoid of compassion and still pursuing his campaign. I hope he slips up badly so dd sees what she's dealing with.

You must be exhausted Albi. Sometimes I think we have to pay such a high price to rescue those we love - not intentionally, it just transpires that way.

I do think it's not a good idea for DH to be out there with the viral stuff going on. He can't afford to be laid low, let alone with this. It's extremely unpleasant, apparently. Maybe he thinks he has to squash everything in 'just in case', which is understandable.

Such an intense time for you both at the moment ❤️💐