Reconciliation after estrangement?

[Albinoni]

I have NC'd for this but have posted in the past about my relationship with DD1 and was grateful for the advice and support which I received. The posts have since been deleted, at my request, but some of you may remember 'Lobster Boy', and my concerns that DD was in a controlling relationship and that I risked losing her.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified as DD seemed to become more and more withdrawn from the family, saying that her BF was her family now. She ghosted all of the family entirely for six months - apparently she just blocked us all - then there were occasional calls and she did send birthday cards etc. She moved house without providing an address and we didn't see her for two and a half years. I cannot begin to describe how painful that period was for me and DH and her sisters, but those of you who have been through this process of living bereavement will understand.

Anyway, the good news is that there has been a reconciliation following a lunch on neutral ground, in a restaurant, earlier this year (she lives hundreds of miles away from us). Prior to that, she had provided her address, so that we could send some books to her which are relevant to a course which she is intending to take next year. At the lunch, she said that they had married the previous year, and we said how pleased we were, and contact continued to improve.

The following month they asked if they could borrow some money to put towards buying a property and we agreed. Shortly after that, DD told me she was expecting a baby (due any day now), which I was overjoyed about. Then, a few weeks after that - and this is the part I am really struggling with - we received a letter from DD and SIL enclosing photos of the 14 month old which they already had. The accompanying letter was quite upsetting as it said they hadn't told us about DGC because they didn't want her to experience broken relationships and they hadn't been sure whether or not they wanted us involved at all, but they felt guilty at taking our money and not telling us about DGC.

DD and I subsequently had an emotional conversation and, since then, DD has been in contact with me virtually every day with messages and photos and is behaving almost as though nothing has happened. She says I can't think about the past or what I have missed and clearly wants to move forward. I know that she is right in that we cannot change the past and she assures me that she definitely does want us to be involved.

But I am in such turmoil over this. Obviously I am thrilled and excited about the reconciliation and the DGC, but I feel so desperately hurt and upset that she didn't tell any of us about all of these things, especially as I believed that we were close before. I am really struggling, to be honest, although it's early days and there is a lot to come to terms with.

We haven't met DGC1 yet as I think we both felt that it would be better to wait for the baby to be born and then meet them both together, when the emotions have died down a bit. The last thing I want to do is cause her any stress at this time and I sense that they are anxious at our meeting her PILs for the first time. I am also anxious about it, although they sound like lovely people and have been very supportive to DD. But goodness knows what they must think of us. I am also worried about becoming attached to the DGC in case they are taken away from me. I just couldn't put myself through all that again.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice if you have been in a similar situation. How easy was it to reconcile? Did the whole family reconcile or was it a piecemeal process? Did you involve any professional help, such as a counsellor or family mediator? Has it worked out? Are things the same and can the relationship ever really recover or is it just different? I really don't want to mess this up, as I have realised how fragile relationships can be, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Just sending you some inline support. You have handled this perfectly, in a awful situation.
I think time will tell with all of this.
If I were you I would have my say, as you have, and then step away and grieve for your loss of you relationship with your daughter and her children. Which is such a sad massive loss but it is what it is. She does have the control here. And has chose to use it over you. Whether she is being controlled by him or not.
Keep the door open but out your boundaries in form place and be open about them. .
But for today, just grieve and let the emotional wash over you a little with our thinking in and out of it.

Much love to you x

Good to read your update OP. DD2 sounds a great support to you irl. I agree with her, you are being abused. Keep looking after yourself and hold your boundary. 💐

That's an amazing update. I'm so happy you have your other daughters to reinforce that you are a good mother and that you don't deserve this treatment.

I have three children. All very small and this honestly breaks my heart. I couldn't imagine losing one of them in this way.

So pleased to see your update. How lovely DD 2 and 3 are so supportive. Testament to what an amazing Mum you are.
Perhaps lunch with DD 3 today should be DD1/LB free zone . Still don’t think I’ve worked out how to do flowers 💐 but sending you lots of love.

Well done Albinoni that has made me smile for the first time on this thread. Have a lovely lunch with dd3 💐

Ooh the flowers worked I think . Have a lovely day xxxx

I have been reading back through the thread, and something struck me.
There is a focus on money, because that is your “crime” according to LB, the thing you need to “make amends” for.
You have been made to feel a huge burden of guilt and worry, a fear that perhaps you caused the estrangement by backing out of the initial house purchase. You are in the position of someone always needing to apologise, always in the wrong. The house purchase itself though is a red herring. Whatever happened then, you would be in this position now. LB would have taken offence at something else, there would have been something that he constructed as a reason to shun you, and then to allow you contact on his terms. It is all power play. You could not have played this in any way that would have changed this as the outcome. Stop feeling guilty, or responsible, or as though you need to somehow do something to change the dynamic. He wants and needs this dynamic, you can never do enough to change it so refuse to play.

There is also a long history of texts unanswered , from your DH , friends (sisters too? ) as well as you. I would say that dd may well have never seen any of these messages, that he checks and deletes.

He is playing a long game too - knowing that backing out last time meant such terrible retribution, you are obviously going to be more likely to commit to handing over money this time. Hence not cutting you out completely in that recent, crushing message.
His relationships to others, such as they are, involve total domination, crushing of the spirit, and then gains on his terms. No wonder he hasn’t had a job. This is his job, it has certainly paid well so far ! I feel frightened for your tiny Grandchildren. He will be a terrible father.

I also noted you saying that they live frugally - no makeup, perfume, haircuts etc. All things which presumably he doesn’t care about, but which your dd might. All ways of keeping her under control. I really do not believe he will give her enough freedom to do her course. I think he wants another lump sum from you now . I mean, money for childcare ? When he is not working ? Rent for a family house, book expenses etc. I imagine he has a lump sum in mind already. This really is extortion and exploitation.

SirVix is right , if it hadn’t been the money it would have been something else. There was nothing you could have done differently to prevent the estrangement happening as that is what LB wanted,

Now you are accepting that nothing you can do can alter your relationship with DD at the moment I hope you feel that you have regained a massive amount of control over the situation and, more importantly, taken a lot of the power away from LB.

I think you will quickly begin to feel a lot calmer xx

I am delighted that your DDs are showing you all of the loving support that you so deserve and need.

You have earned it you are an exceptional mother.

DD2 is correct - what on earth would you apologise for? Declaring your deep love and passion to embrace their family?

Don’t dilute or retract that with an apology - that’s exactly what he wants - let it stick - let the words sink in over the weeks and months with your DD1 (if she ever got to see it). Leave it there.

DD2 and 3 must be as devastated for you being triggered and abused by him as you are with DD1.

Turn to them for comfort and joy. Agree have a DD1 free day/week/month. Detach with love and fully engage with all the other wonderful people you have in your life.

If your DH wants to keep communications open then that’s fine - he can agree to the trip in March for you both - and you can decide how up for it you are the day before - you can get out of it with a pretend illness.

Spend the next month building yourself up emotionally - that means staying out of their firing line.

This really is a shocking situation and you are his biggest target because you are his biggest threat because your DD1 has so much love for you.

Take care.

I've just read your updates and I think your two younger daughters and PP are right. Step away for now, this is not doing your MH any good.
Also what strikes me is that even if you were absolutely loaded, which you're not, you were never obliged to bankroll them. You were going to loan them money for the first house but you backed out because LB didn't want to searches and you didn't like the way he was treating her. Your choice.

If you must loan them any more money then agree on a sum with your DH and the conditions but make it clear that after that the bank of mum and dad is closed to them.
I honestly don't know about the visit. I would maybe go with low expectations and be polite and friendly but distant.
In the meantime try and focus on other things in your life. I really hope she does the pgce course and gets a job and remembers what normal life is about. It does remind me of a cult or something. But she may not.
I would be livid about the comment about money being the only positive thing. Who knows if she wrote that or him?
Sorry I just want to wish you all the best. You can't make this situation right but you can work on how it effects you. X

Oh OP!

I have silently lurked on all of your threads. This must be heartbreaking for you

I truly think that for your own health you should not visit nor pay any more money. Make it clear that you will always be there for your DD and DGDS. You will have years and years of this otherwise to your own and other daughter’s detriment.

Excellent post by SirVix

I can only echo what so many others have said - I'm aghast that this utterly entitled and self-obsessed man:

• owns properties (plural) in his SOLE NAME, excluding your DD
• is mortgage-free has never* worked
• doesn't appear to have any intention of working (didn't you say he's now decided, after the PGCE, that 'he's decided he doesn't want to be a teacher after all'? Colour me shocked)
• thought you should hand over your retirement home to him (!!!!!!!!)
• expects all childcare and household responsibilities to fall to his wife, whom......
• ......he forced to discharge herself from hospital a day or so after a difficult labour and a CS.

He is contemptible. Your fair and loving message wouldn't even start to penetrate the rhinoceros hide of his devious, money-grubbing little mind. Only the £££££££ register with him. I honestly don't know where your DD fits in all this but I do think any rapprochement has to come from her, and has to be because she starts to realise what a master manipulator she's shackled to. Stepping back is a good decision.

I completely agree with Hilda, your message will have no effect on him, because he has the cold, calculating heart of a narcissist. He has no empathy for you, or anyone else. He is only interested in people who will worship him , and give him everything he feels that he deserves. Eg your hard-earned cash, retirement home etc.

You have one huge advantage over him though, as a mother, you can stand firm and strong, like a castle that has spanned centuries of all manner of conflict and chaos. You will always be there for your daughter, and she will always love you.

Thank you very much for all of your supportive messages.

I spent a good day with DD3 yesterday and we ended up having a telephone conversation with DD2 about something else, but ended up having a sort of conference call. They were both very supportive. I slept well last night and awoke with a much better perspective.

I replied to DD1 this morning with a considered message, which I am happy with and which I hope will take the heat out of the situation. Having read her last message a few more times, and having calmed down and looking at it more objectively, it seemed to me to be very defensive and 'over the top', as though she was lashing out to hurt me. It wasn't rational. I think Gutterton's word was 'unhinged'. I wonder how happy she actually is.

Anyway, I basically replied that of course I don't think she is 'evil' or 'wicked'. On the contrary, I think she is a highly intelligent and talented woman, a caring mother, and someone who could excel at almost anything she chose to do. I praised her for getting a place on the course, said that it would give her an opportunity for considerable personal development, and that she would be a brilliant teacher, making her subject interesting and accessible to her pupils. I said that if that was what she really wanted to do, DH and I were happy to provide some financial support for her to achieve her ambition.

I hope by this message to have conveyed encouragement and praise, and to have made it clear that DH and I have a high opinion of her, and to emphasise her potential. I also hope that I made it clear that we are prepared to provide financial support for her benefit and for the intention which we are entitled to assume it is intended. By use of the word 'some' financial support, I also seek to manage expectations.

I went on to say that I did not regard myself as a 'victim', that I was very happy with my life etc, but that I did regret that my relationship with her had been poor over the last few years. I said that, like her, I wanted things to continue on an upward trajectory, but that I wanted the relationship to be built on solid foundations, and that I didn't want to be hurt again. I said that was what I had intended to say in my message, but that I obviously hadn't said it very well.

So I hope that I have managed to be positive but maintain boundaries. We shall see!

SirVix, thank you for saying that the situation would have happened anyway and not to blame myself. That is exactly what DH, DDs 2 and 3 say, but it means a lot to me to hear it from posters on here too. I have spent far too many hours on the 'if only'.

Honestly I think your last message was basically an apology. You are her victim. She hasn't apologised to you. She blamed you. You've gone crawling back to appease her.
Don't shy away. Stand firm. What she did was wicked. She has behaved horrendously and she needs to be held accountable.

If she replies I would ask if she is willing to discuss what has happened so that you can both move on with peace? If she's not then she finest want a long term relationship.

Ddraig - I agree that it's conciliatory but I feel that they have got my point, hence the huge overreaction. I thought by being measured and reasonable, they might realise that they are the opposite.

Also, I prefer to send a reply which does not require an answer and just leave it at that. The visit in March will be the day of reckoning.

I can't believe you are giving money to these two people. You have been turned into a 'cruella' character by both your DD and her DH. She hid that she had a DC from you and is only reaching out for money . Whether you believe her DH is the puppet master is neither here nor there. Your feeding into there nonsense by having a relationship based on there financial gain. I would step back from anything money related. My worry is that your being as bad as they are. Thinking if you hand over money I can meet my grandchildren . Is that really the relationship you want? The whole thread makes for hard reading ..... you do realise if you said no to offering financial support they wouldn't be engaging?

I don’t think she wrote that hurtful message, or at least not the bulk of it. I think LB fashioned it. So you are responding to him, rather than your dd. I would not trust that anything is from her unless you hear it from her in person and in private.
Maybe better to call her rather than send texts, although he will always be near by, at least she will be able to hear you directly ? Does she answer if you call ?

I think DH should send an email setting out how much you are willing to contribute, I suggest paying a monthly amount so if she pulls out of the course you can stop payments!

Also it also readdresses the power balance a tiny bit.

If they then cancel meeting or kick off because it's not "enough" etc then you can make a decision not to hand it over.

Personally I would rather not have the money discussions when you meet in person.

Paying monthly from when she starts her course effectively gives you 18 months that she/they will need to keep in touch with you...

Also any funds doled out should be paid directly to the letting agent, or if she needs funds for books, buy the books etc. Although why on God’s earth they “need” this money is beyond me, I do understand that you see the course as a chink of light, hoping that it will help her move on from him.
Do not under any circs be coerced into giving them a sum of money directly, as it will simply be handed over to him. Only agree to pay a small amount towards her course costs, and pay them to the source.
My feeling is that they will ask you for a lump sum that they already have in mind, so you need to be prepared to refuse that. Any money you pay into her account will be directly transferred to his.
Also be wary of traps, eg if you agreed to pay the first six months rent up front, then after six months they would say that she can’t continue the course unless you pay more, that type of thing. So working out a small monthly sum (that you can pay directly to the person or organisation she has to pay) for her entire course, is probably the way to go.
There will be another set up, something you do “wrong” , as he does not want you in her life. He only wants your money. He does not want her to have any contact with you. When you stop giving money, he will cut you off completely.
Don’t assume that they will see reason if you give reasoned arguments. He is not a reasonable person, he is out for one thing only and he does not care about you and your family. He hates you. So stop any guilt, stop feeling that you can have any impact on them, and only act when you can do something that will benefit your daughter in the long term, and enable her to leave him.
And repeat to yourself NONE OF THIS IS YOUR FAULT.

Well done op, I’ll repeat the pp’s and say this is not your fault.

Hope you have a peaceful weekend

There was an overreaction because you've had the audacity to speak out of turn and challenging their rights to your money.

But again I can't imagine the absolute heartache you are going through. It's easy to step back and say this is never going to work. But I can imagine you have to exhaust everything so you don't overthink this for the next 20 years.

Brilliant reply, op. Well done, bravo.

As I keep saying, normal rules don't apply : being conciliatory and humble is what works. Locking horns resoundingly doesn't work in a situation like this, people.

Glad you've sleep well and you're feeling more peaceful

Ps this is not your fault. But as mothers we scrape the cupboards bare trying to see what we could have done differently. I really do get that ❤️

I don't think dictating how it is spent who they will pay it to is a good idea. It will just be more ammunition at how awful/controlling OP is...

So long as it's paid monthly the OP can stop it if she finds out DD has left the course.

Meeting in person would be an opportunity for them to sign loan agreements for the amount that has been loaned to them, or has that been written off as a gift?