Reconciliation after estrangement?

[Albinoni]

I have NC'd for this but have posted in the past about my relationship with DD1 and was grateful for the advice and support which I received. The posts have since been deleted, at my request, but some of you may remember 'Lobster Boy', and my concerns that DD was in a controlling relationship and that I risked losing her.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified as DD seemed to become more and more withdrawn from the family, saying that her BF was her family now. She ghosted all of the family entirely for six months - apparently she just blocked us all - then there were occasional calls and she did send birthday cards etc. She moved house without providing an address and we didn't see her for two and a half years. I cannot begin to describe how painful that period was for me and DH and her sisters, but those of you who have been through this process of living bereavement will understand.

Anyway, the good news is that there has been a reconciliation following a lunch on neutral ground, in a restaurant, earlier this year (she lives hundreds of miles away from us). Prior to that, she had provided her address, so that we could send some books to her which are relevant to a course which she is intending to take next year. At the lunch, she said that they had married the previous year, and we said how pleased we were, and contact continued to improve.

The following month they asked if they could borrow some money to put towards buying a property and we agreed. Shortly after that, DD told me she was expecting a baby (due any day now), which I was overjoyed about. Then, a few weeks after that - and this is the part I am really struggling with - we received a letter from DD and SIL enclosing photos of the 14 month old which they already had. The accompanying letter was quite upsetting as it said they hadn't told us about DGC because they didn't want her to experience broken relationships and they hadn't been sure whether or not they wanted us involved at all, but they felt guilty at taking our money and not telling us about DGC.

DD and I subsequently had an emotional conversation and, since then, DD has been in contact with me virtually every day with messages and photos and is behaving almost as though nothing has happened. She says I can't think about the past or what I have missed and clearly wants to move forward. I know that she is right in that we cannot change the past and she assures me that she definitely does want us to be involved.

But I am in such turmoil over this. Obviously I am thrilled and excited about the reconciliation and the DGC, but I feel so desperately hurt and upset that she didn't tell any of us about all of these things, especially as I believed that we were close before. I am really struggling, to be honest, although it's early days and there is a lot to come to terms with.

We haven't met DGC1 yet as I think we both felt that it would be better to wait for the baby to be born and then meet them both together, when the emotions have died down a bit. The last thing I want to do is cause her any stress at this time and I sense that they are anxious at our meeting her PILs for the first time. I am also anxious about it, although they sound like lovely people and have been very supportive to DD. But goodness knows what they must think of us. I am also worried about becoming attached to the DGC in case they are taken away from me. I just couldn't put myself through all that again.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice if you have been in a similar situation. How easy was it to reconcile? Did the whole family reconcile or was it a piecemeal process? Did you involve any professional help, such as a counsellor or family mediator? Has it worked out? Are things the same and can the relationship ever really recover or is it just different? I really don't want to mess this up, as I have realised how fragile relationships can be, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

Very long - winded, sorry

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@Albinoni that was so very brave, and whilst I do get where @springydaff is coming from I think it was the right thing to do, yes it may well backfire and you end up ghosted again but I honestly think that would have happened anyway and in a small way sending that,if I was one of your other DDs would make me feel better as Even though they know the full situation it’s hard to see one sibling treat the parent like crap and practically get rewarded for it.

I hope you DH is ok with it all and I also hope that dd gets to see it, I very much doubt you will get a response though.

Thanks everybody. Perhaps springy is right and it was a mistake. I expect DD will be very upset by it and LB will seize on this to say that she would be happier without us in her life, that we are detrimental to her mental health. I have also played into his hands, as he will be delighted that he has caused me such anguish and will make sure that he asserts himself by preventing me from spending any time with my DD. Also, my message will have made DD defensive so she may not want to spend any time alone with us. She would rather just brush everything under the carpet, I think. LB will encourage DD to stand up for herself against her toxic family, I am sure that will be the script.

My guess is that she will go to DH, which is what she did last time, and I haven't told him about the text yet. He will probably think that I am being over-emotional and failing to compartmentalise. He will be calm and say that of course we will help them with the rent, and it's just that I am very hurt.

I suppose I have ramped things up and failed to follow Gutterton's excellent advice. She is so right that the anger and hurt ricochets around and has nowhere to go, as I can never have a conversation with DD. It goes round and round in my head until I want to explode. DD is not an individual any more, but half of an entity, the other half of which hates my guts. All my life I have sought to avoid making enemies and I have largely succeeded, but not this time.

I suppose I had better just let it lie and see what happens. But these texts just kept coming, seemingly innocuous, but I know where they are going. I don't want to feel used, blackmailed or played. I've reached my limit. At least for now. The rest of my life is very happy and contented but this is a black cloud that won't go away, a wound which festers.

Bluebell - it's a power struggle I can't win because I have both hands tied behind my back. Thanks for your kind words. I doubt we will get to spend any time alone with DD.

Puzzling - you make a good point. Maybe I should ask DH to take over the contact. DD does have some contact with him too, but less. Again, innocuous texts talking about films they are watching and so on. He just plays a straight bat, thinks it is good that we have contact, and doesn't get upset or let it play on his mind. He really doesn't get why I am so distressed about it all when he sees everything improving. Perhaps it is me, that I am over reacting. I will have another go at counselling, but have tried it twice before in my life and it didn't really work for me.

Sir Vix - she has already chosen. As DD2 says, if there were a burning building and she could rescue just LB or all of us, she would pick him, for sure. I agree that he is a sad, inadequate, petty bully - but unfortunately one that DD loves.

Grohn - thank you for making me feel less bad about myself. Actually I did sleep well.

Call - you are probably right about future contact. But she will just send the manipulative texts to DH instead.

Gutterton - no, DH has no idea about the sort of personalities you describe. It was a long time before he accepted my concerns about LB were in any way justified. DH is honest, kind and straightforward, but doesn't talk about his emotions (He went to boarding school at 10 so had to deal with things himself and learned how to compartmentalise).

springy - what you say sounds spot on. But I don't want to dance to his tune any longer. I don't want be humiliated. DD2 says to me that I should have some self respect and I sense that I will lose the respect of DD2 and DD3 if I let them walk over me. They think I should take a much firmer line.

billy - cross posted but you are spot on with the other DDs. They are the ones who love me and support me. Part of me thinks I should 'cut my losses' although you can never really stop loving.

I think you need to speak to DH again about the amount of £ you are going to handover it is a hostage negotiation with them never going to hand the hostage back.

Is there any chance DH will ever give more in the future without your knowledge?

I have been following your thread but as yet have not left a comment.
I am estranged from my daughter for over 20 years and she was about 17 when it happened.
My ex and I were divorcing and he basically gave our 2 dc the choice of taking a side. My slightly elder child did not do this but my daughter left with him and stopped talking to me, at one point I didn't know their address.
In that time I have tried many , many times to regain a relationship with her.
Over the years she has married and had two dcs of her own. I have not met my gc and they are 4 & 6 .
Over the years I sent money and cards for birthdays,Christmas and special occasions ( marriage,births etc) this has been accepted but not acknowledged. I have also wrote many a heartfelt letter asking for contact, this has fell on deaf ears.
During those years and looking back I'm amazed that I have not had a mental breakdown . She had also broke contact with my parents who have now died and was informed ( by her sibling ) of their imminent death.
These past few years I have come to the conclusion that I cannot change her view of me - nor make her want me in her life. I still send cards ( no money ) I send cards. For my gc birthdays/ Christmas , which is hard to find as most say overly sentimental wordings bearing in mind I have never met them.
I have over the years made to clear to her that I love her and always will and my door is always open but for my own mental health I cannot have this longing to have her back in my life when
the ball is firmly in her court. If she wants me I am here, and if not, that is her choice.

I am so sorry Cat. That sounds awful, as does your ex. But don't give up on the GC. A friend of mine has been estranged from him DD for many years, but his teenage DGD has recently demanded contact, regularly goes to stay, and they are building a strong relationship.

Anyway, I have told DH about the message I sent and he is fine about it, just says that we will have a better idea when we visit. But he understands why I sent it and that is a great relief. I think that must have been what was worrying me more, as I feel much better now.

Random - I am sure that DH would not go behind my back. There needs to be an open conversation when we visit and, if we don't visit, there won't be any money forthcoming. I can't go ahead with all this manipulation and lack of openness and I am happy that I have said that, even if it results in a breakdown of the reconciliation for a while. It's not a relationship worth having without honesty and openness, as a previous poster expressed very eloquently after reconciling with her father. The thing about blackmailers is that, if you give in, they just want more.

OP This must be very painful.
Your dd and her husband are adults with dependent children and with considerable assets and financial means. They do not need your financial assistance.

They could rent out the house they are not using if they chose to. DH could get a well paid job if he chose to. It would be good for them to stand on their own feet and make their own decisions.

I suggest that you say that you respect them as an independent couple, you are impressed with what they have achieved educationally and with their property investments and that you think it would be best if they stood on their own feet financially now as they seem very able and capable.

Say that the financial stuff is impacting negatively on your relationship. You wish to have a relationship based on love, shared time, emotional and practical support but not financial support. Say it feels as though they are only interested in money and not in a relationship with you.

It's likely that they will drop contact but that is probably healthier than the alternative.

Hold your boundaries OP, your health and well being here is important and the same for your DH and your other children.

DD1 will be clear that you love her and will always be there to support her and that she has someone to turn to if she leaves LB. If she chooses to drop contact it is her choice and you cannot control this.

I would access some professional counselling support for yourself and DH and for your other DDs too potentially to support you through this.

I have received this reply:

'We can chat when you come but I feel as though I have covered this with you so many times and repeat myself ad nauseam without getting through to you. Hence why I though we were just moving forward.

You are right about what the letter says but nothing else. I'm not even going to address some of the things you have said. We appreciated the money to help with the house and the promise of helping me with my course costs, that's a big deal to us and to be honest, it's the only way in which you have ever made a positive difference in our lives (not that I have started the course yet, if you have changed your mind again you need to tell us now, so we at least have a chance of making other arrangements).

Portraying us like wicked money grabbers is very twisted, if that is what we are then God we are not very good at it. If we just wanted your money you would think we were all best friends.

We felt grateful for your gesture and so opened up our family to you, tried to fix our relationship and involve you more in our lives. We have set a date and invited you to our home. We have taken all these steps, now the ball is in your court.

Please stop insulting us. That you insist on seeing everything in the most warped way where you are always a victim and we are always the villains is not conducive to us having the type of relationship you want.

PS I find it bewildering that you can say 'things can't go on as they are', we have taken all those steps to try and build up a semblance of a proper relationship. Things have not been on such a positive trajectory in years and you are bemoaning as if things have never been worse. It's melodramatic recounting the great tragedies that have befallen you in life, but it's not healthy this unhealthy victim narrative'.

I know I've only just joined in with my posts ( and apologies it was such a long one !)
But really ! They come across very , very entitled . I think I'd be returning an email along the lines that it is obvious that both parties are not happy with the situation and it seems like it is not possible to move forward in a way that works for all . Wish them well and you hope one day things will get on the right track. I would not offer any financial help , you are not obliged .

Wow.

That was a great big slap down.

Total contempt for you.

A total rejection of the facts and your feelings.

Humiliating insults and punishment - totally abusive and unhinged.

He is still after your cash though.

You know where you stand.

Oh Albinoni
That reply from them has made my blood run cold . So nasty . Sending you strength and love. xx

That really sounds as though LB has written most, if not all of it. The constant use of “we”. It doesn’t read like a daughter to a mother, and it also has odd disconnections, as though more than one person’s language has been used.
I feel rather ragey just reading that.
“The only way in which you have ever made a positive difference in our lives” is a particularly horrible and deliberately hurtful thing to write.

I don’t know where you go from there tbh. Will mull over it today, as all I can feel right now is rage on your behalf, at what this man has done to your family.

I still think that holding yourself firm, and saying what you feel, was not a mistake. You can’t be a punchbag for ever, you can’t be at the mercy of LB too. Even more so as you have other daughters, who need to see your strength and boundaries.

That sounds like your SIL talking.
OP you can't enter into discussion or argument with them. I would stick to replying with what I previously posted.

Say you agree it should be an equal adult relationship based on love and respect and that money seems to be coming between you all the time. I would say there will be no further financial support as you admire and respect how they are making their own way in the world successfully and know them to be very able and capable of providing for their own family.

SIL will probably be incandescent but there is no arguing with this if you stand firm and do not change what you say or enter into debate apology or justification.

Keep telling them you want a relationship based on love, shared time, emotional support and practical help such as babysitting.

Giving more money is in my opinion undermining the relationship you wish to have and is damaging your other relationships. Set loving boundaries OP for the relationship you wish to have with DD1. It should not be a relationship of financial extortion and feeling on tenter hooks all the time.

It's difficult to come to terms with the fact that your dd may wish to cut contact again but for your sanity I think that you need to make peace with the idea.

You yourself are currently being financially and emotionally abused and I think you need to recognise this.

Re-reading I also see the little dangling threat “Not that I have started the course yet” ....
He knows you want dd to do this course, so there is the suggestion that without your cash, she won’t be able to ( even though that is of course not true).

Honestly I've stayed quiet on this thread but I am going to speak up.
I don't think she's some abused crushed wife. I think she is a conniving, horrible, selfish money grabber. I think they are a match made in heaven with each other. They bring out the worst in each other and you and only you are the ones being abused.

I would sit down with your husband and seriously discuss the money. I would give them nothing and tell her to get to fuck.

Namethecat what a devastating situation. You have been through so much over decades. You must be wrung out. I hope that you are finding a peaceful emotional place of acceptance, to settle with sorrow, for this living bereavement. What got you there - was it just the attrition of time - like watching a ship disappear over the horizon or was there one incident/moment that shifted your position?

Albinoni I imagine that your emotions will now be bouncing all around from deep relief to deep regret - with terror, fear, rage and shame all thrown in for good measure. Maybe just let yourself feel them for the next few days. Let them go through you like waves. This is the emotional crisis point and all are valid and justified. Over the course of this thread you have built a simple consistent narrative of truth, love and openness - so keep your mind coming back to that resolute, powerful, positive stance to centre yourself whenever you feel a wobble and start to question yourself. Write it down like an affirmation on your phone to pull up. Feel proud that you have taken a stance and delivered it in a loving and peaceful way.

You have found your boundaries SirVix is right you have to take yourself out of punching distance to protect yourself. LB’s expectations are that he can kick the shit out of you and your family for years and that you will keep taking the beatings and still rock up for “a chat” and hand over your cash.....

Keep your powder dry for now. Don’t respond. I wonder if DD1 has even seen your message or his response?

Wow, honestly right now I just want to give you a massive hug, take you for a coffee (or stronger) and let you cry it out.

Do you think it’s her words?

*Gutterton

Namethecat what a devastating situation. You have been through so much over decades. You must be wrung out. I hope that you are finding a peaceful emotional place of acceptance, to settle with sorrow, for this living bereavement. What got you there - was it just the attrition of time - like watching a ship disappear over the horizon or was there one incident/moment that shifted your position?*

Partly due to the years of letters I've sent, even suggesting her original estrangement may have been due to the emotions of her father . I've wrote meet me as an adult that she is now and form her own opinion of me, if she then decided she still wanted estrangement it would be on her terms and not that of her father.
Also for my own mental health . I'm a believer that life does go on , even if it's in a different way.

I also feel like billybagpuss
We are all sending a massive fat hug to you OP. This is an utterly shitty situation, that you are negotiating with decency and love.

I am going to speak up too. In the kindest way, OP, she has children,a demanding husband and imminent studies. You are spending literally all your time dwelling on this and being whipped into a frenzy by Mumsnetters. The last thing she needs is you being demanding and emotionally needy. Keep calm and don’t reply yet. Keep all contact short and sweet. Play the long game. Perhaps he’s a master manipulator, perhaps he doesn’t give a shit. I can sort of understand her frustration though at you dangling the offer of financial assistance and never actually committing. Perhaps say “looking forward to seeing you soon and hearing more about your plans. Once we know exactly what you have in mind, we can confirm how much we can assist. Regardless, we love you and I know you are not a money grabber, I apologise if that is how my comments were construed”. Then LEAVE IT. Stop writing essays to her! You want to be a safe haven, not an emotional drag.

Oops a fail on the asterisk

We appreciated the money to help with the house and the promise of helping me with my course costs, that's a big deal to us and to be honest, it's the only way in which you have ever made a positive difference in our lives

Sums up what "they" think sadly

I had this message drafted out before you updated with their reply but I’ll send it anyway .

You say that are feeling like a bad person - please never feel
that. That his intention , it’s his M.O , it’s part of his campaign. The same one that he has subjected your DD to .

Don’t feel you shouldn’t have sent that message . As PPs have said it is essential that you demonstrate these boundaries to your other DDs . Let them see it is not acceptable to bullied , manipulated and controlled.

You talk about worrying that LB will accuse you of harming DDs mental health . Well what about your mental health, your other DD s mental heath , your lovely DH s mental health? She is an adult with a family of her own. I know she is being influenced by LB but her needs don’t get to trump yours anymore.

Do everything you can to dispel that “black cloud “. You have a lots of positives in your life. This has the potential to really blight the rest of your life if you let it. Please don’t let it .
( easier said than done I know, but it can be done )

You say all your life you have avoided making enemies . Just judging by the way you so gently and kindly write on here , replying to everyone’s posts with such respect I can believe that . I wonder how many enemies LB had made in his considerably shorter life. A fair few I expect!
It is not you at fault here . You know that don’t you?

I’m glad your DH is ok with the message you sent . Would you feel comfortable showing him a few in the posts on here ?

If he is calmer and less emotional then I think letting him deal with all the communication for a while is probably wise .

I bet LB was burning the midnight oil penning that reply. I can just see him incandescent with rage that you would dare to stand up to him. It was such a arrogant , dismissive, patronising reply.

I would also disagree with their assertions that they are not very good at money grabbing . I would say they are masters at it .

We have received very similar messages from DD and her BF. I think what is especially hurtful is they way they write as a “united front “ you feel they are ganging up on you I know this is no consolation but maybe it will make you feel less alone.
Xxxxx.

Namethecat . So sorry for your situation. It seems far more common than I ever realised . You sound so strong x