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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Reconciliation after estrangement?

999 replies

Albinoni · 30/11/2019 10:39

I have NC'd for this but have posted in the past about my relationship with DD1 and was grateful for the advice and support which I received. The posts have since been deleted, at my request, but some of you may remember 'Lobster Boy', and my concerns that DD was in a controlling relationship and that I risked losing her.

Unfortunately, my fears were justified as DD seemed to become more and more withdrawn from the family, saying that her BF was her family now. She ghosted all of the family entirely for six months - apparently she just blocked us all - then there were occasional calls and she did send birthday cards etc. She moved house without providing an address and we didn't see her for two and a half years. I cannot begin to describe how painful that period was for me and DH and her sisters, but those of you who have been through this process of living bereavement will understand.

Anyway, the good news is that there has been a reconciliation following a lunch on neutral ground, in a restaurant, earlier this year (she lives hundreds of miles away from us). Prior to that, she had provided her address, so that we could send some books to her which are relevant to a course which she is intending to take next year. At the lunch, she said that they had married the previous year, and we said how pleased we were, and contact continued to improve.

The following month they asked if they could borrow some money to put towards buying a property and we agreed. Shortly after that, DD told me she was expecting a baby (due any day now), which I was overjoyed about. Then, a few weeks after that - and this is the part I am really struggling with - we received a letter from DD and SIL enclosing photos of the 14 month old which they already had. The accompanying letter was quite upsetting as it said they hadn't told us about DGC because they didn't want her to experience broken relationships and they hadn't been sure whether or not they wanted us involved at all, but they felt guilty at taking our money and not telling us about DGC.

DD and I subsequently had an emotional conversation and, since then, DD has been in contact with me virtually every day with messages and photos and is behaving almost as though nothing has happened. She says I can't think about the past or what I have missed and clearly wants to move forward. I know that she is right in that we cannot change the past and she assures me that she definitely does want us to be involved.

But I am in such turmoil over this. Obviously I am thrilled and excited about the reconciliation and the DGC, but I feel so desperately hurt and upset that she didn't tell any of us about all of these things, especially as I believed that we were close before. I am really struggling, to be honest, although it's early days and there is a lot to come to terms with.

We haven't met DGC1 yet as I think we both felt that it would be better to wait for the baby to be born and then meet them both together, when the emotions have died down a bit. The last thing I want to do is cause her any stress at this time and I sense that they are anxious at our meeting her PILs for the first time. I am also anxious about it, although they sound like lovely people and have been very supportive to DD. But goodness knows what they must think of us. I am also worried about becoming attached to the DGC in case they are taken away from me. I just couldn't put myself through all that again.

So I was wondering if anyone could give me advice if you have been in a similar situation. How easy was it to reconcile? Did the whole family reconcile or was it a piecemeal process? Did you involve any professional help, such as a counsellor or family mediator? Has it worked out? Are things the same and can the relationship ever really recover or is it just different? I really don't want to mess this up, as I have realised how fragile relationships can be, but I am feeling a bit overwhelmed.

OP posts:
Ledkr · 23/01/2020 12:50

Op. Do you realise that most people don't help their children as much as this or anywhere near it?
I can't really help mine at all as I have no savings to speak of and my dh and I work in the public sector so very basic salarys.
My in laws are faulty solvent and help when they can but dh still had to get a student loan as did his siblings
They also saved for their own deposits on houses.
My parents didn't help me either and my dad is fairly well off.
I didn't expect it. He's enjoying his retirement and travelling and I'm happy for him.
We will down size at some point and I'd like to help my dc with deposits but I will make sure I have a nice home and enough money for my retirement first.
That's how they would like it too.
I can't be compared to you as you are clearly better off but I think it's important that you realise that what they are asking for and expecting is completely abnormal.

Ledkr · 23/01/2020 12:51

Fairly not faulty solvent

Gutterton · 23/01/2020 14:47

It is very hard to be stuck in a relationship with someone controlling, you spend the whole time dealing with the immediate situation, appeasing the person who controls you. It is exhausting and makes planning to leave almost impossible.

This is how you are existing as well - being triggered by every text and under constant threat as you are also in the depths of an emotionally and financially coercively controlling RS with LB which has you walking on eggshells, turned inside out and so exhausted, scared of your own emotions, confused and not knowing what to do. So you need to step out of this dynamic so that you can plot your way out of your RS with him so that you can then help your DD1.

I think that the only way for you to work through this turmoil is to compartmentalise and separate out each issue so that you can see the scope and scale of each area and see where you have agency or not.

It’s really The Serenity Prayer x 3.

This will allow you to live a rich, balanced, joyous life day to day and also enable you to make the right decisions (when situations arise) which focus on the best LONG TERM outcome for DD1 and DGDs.

Once you are informed, have the big picture and know the trajectory (think you are nearly there on this part) - as well as having decided your own boundaries and coping behaviours you will be in a very clear and strong position and because of this the outcome for your DD1 and DGDs will be optimum given their present circumstances.

  1. HER: DD1 (and DGDs) are in a v v abusive situation with LB. He is a v manipulative, disordered, abusive man. You should do everything to research and understand PD and the dynamics of such abusive RS. Also take strength to know that LB will mess up in time (it will be likely be around parenting the DGD) and have 100% belief that DD1 loves you deeply and will eventually come to you even though her actions don’t show it right now. Also have an awareness that LB is looking to trap you and distract DD1 to believe that you are the bad guy. So you have to play a v long game here. Open, breezy, vanilla communication, show her what’s she missing, and plant v subtle seeds of doubt if you ever get the chance verbally. This is your strategy. Treat both of those two new texts like this - non committal / vanilla.
  1. YOU: Above is much easier said than done. To achieve this you will need to trade the deep deep pain of losing your DD1 and DGDs “for now” - knowing that “detaching with love” will continue to expose DD1 to the consequences of his shocking behaviour and that she will need to get v stressed by him for it to hurt enough for her to want to leave. That’s why you can’t make it comfortable for her or step into the dynamic because she won’t hit her rock bottom and somehow you will be blamed (never him) and you will have inadvertently facilitated further years of abuse of your DD1 and DGDs by him.

This is why you need support eg a v experienced psychotherapist who can teach you how to hold and contain your v natural and v normal emotions of deep hurt and anger and your impulse to react. This is not a normal situation. Different rules apply if you want to win. It’s perfectly acceptable to look for support. You are dealing with a v volatile toxic situation - it is uncharted waters for you. Others have the answers and you need support. Your sleep is being interrupted - that’s a sign of trauma / distress. Your MH and physical health could go off a cliff here. Then you will not be able to help your DD.

You will work out your rules and your will apply them consistently with a straight bat each and every time. Life will become simpler as you will know what the response will be.

  1. THE MONEY: Take the emotional blackmail out of it. Consider this as part of your standard lifelong financial planning. This should be v objective around your values for all of your DDs. Make decisions with your DH when you are 100% ready. You might not have clarity on the situation this year. You may choose to do this is a couple of years time.

This is your prerogative.

This is not a negotiation with LB or on his timescales.

And it is not relevant to DD1. They have more than enough money to do it already without your cash.

I think that RandonMess is spot on - LB wants your cash for property No4.

They have rental income from 2 houses which would directly pay the rent on one property. They then have the tax free bursary £26K + parental allowance. So just with that they have more £2-3K a month disposable cash after tax and after rent is paid, to live on. This is ample.

LB can double this income again if he chooses to go to work in the profession he was handsomely paid to study for to the tune of £34k from the taxes of hard grafting workers who’s kids desperately need STEM teachers.

So walk out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) that LB has put you in around YOUR money. If your DD1 wants to do the course she has access to about £5k/month after rent and tax. She doesn’t need another £40k from you.

There is no financial barrier to her doing this course.

If you start discussing money with them it could go in many different directions but in your heart you know that it is all the same destination:

  1. You decide on a sum - they want more - you stand your ground - so they cut you off again.
  1. You decide on a sum they agree but want it paid to them - you stand your ground and they cut you off again.
  1. You decide on a sum they accept that it is to be paid to LL. They don’t start the course, they start and abandon it. Your money is wasted. Some how they will still cut you off again.
  1. You agree a sum, pay the LL direct, she does the course. They then want more money, your retirement home, even your other DDs organs FFS..... can you see that it will never end. You will be financially, physically and emotionally bled dry - and then they will still cut you off again.

But all of this speculation will consume, control and exhaust you. It is ultimately futile because you have no idea where he is going in his 3D game or chess. Everything is done to confuse, unsettled you - so don’t play his game. Drop the rope so he can’t play you. Make your own decisions, communicate them only once and stick to actions. Repeated so when each new text comes you are not “back in the game”.

Gutterton · 23/01/2020 15:12

This is emotional hijacking in action.

Look what he is doing to you mentally and physically. Have the pictures of the DGDs dried up? Has phase 1 of his campaign been completed and now he is moving on to phase 2 - the extorting money phase.

You are not paranoid - your body is on high alert because LB is a threat. Your mind is working overtime to try to second guess what he is up to. Because he is up to something

This is a good thing that your mind and body are ringing alarm bells.

Listen to it. It is telling you to have some distance. That the texts are always loaded and threatening. They are. So you need to protect yourself. You need to have a strategy and a process - so that you feel in control.

You don’t have to pick up the phone.

The DGDs are you Achilles heel and your greatest opportunity.

You KNOW he will emotionally humiliate, punish and toy with you when you go to visit - as this is his MO and how he is behaving now.

More importantly you know that he will do this whether you give him the money or not - as that is how he is behaving right now after you have already given him a substantial loan.

You could give him your life savings and he will never be satisfied and will still continue to humiliate, punish and toy with you.

Because he is a dangerous and abusive man.

Are you going to let him do that? How would you cope? Be careful that he doesn’t paint you into an emotionally explosive corner where you erupt and it backfires. Don’t expose yourself to it if you can’t cope. Most people wouldn’t walk into this firing line. Maybe you set rules. Only meet them in your hotel lounge - be ready to claim a headache or bout of D&V if you feel uncomfortable so that you can retire to your room. Or say that you cant travel and can they come to you. Then you are on your turf and not hanging his every whim. You need to set your boundaries and have an exit strategy.

SirVixofVixHall · 23/01/2020 15:23

Agree with Gutterton
So sorry you are going through this OP.

HullabalooToo · 23/01/2020 16:26

She might not get on the course. What then?

Grohnjant · 23/01/2020 17:45

Once again Gutterton has it spot on. He will just keep moving the goal posts and whatever you give will never be enough.

This is exactly what happened to us . Ashamed to say we were 16 k down when we finally realised.

Much love , look after your physical and mental heath as a priority . Hope you sleep better tonight

Xx

peelingpaint · 23/01/2020 20:19

The thing about how endless and overwhelming it all is - I remember in my relationship that was similar thinking to myself how every day felt like a year. I couldn't believe so much had happened during each day, it was volatile and unpredictable and terrifying.

The thing with the notebook... I remember some days we would have a meeting first thing, with him writing minutes and everything (!) and it would be - point 1 - your family don't care about you, if they did how can you explain them not being here right now and getting you out of this -point 2 - you're a terrible girlfriend, you are repulsive -- the whole thing was that ridiculous. With the weird formal-sounding email that was supposedly from her - he went into the bar I worked in and quit my job on my behalf, applied for other jobs on my behalf all using this very detached, formal language but saying things that were aggressive, offensive. One day I came home from college and everything I had made (I studied art) and all my studies from the preceding 10yrs were in a skip with water poured on top of them; I quit within a month of that happening I think. None of it mattered, it was affronting to him that anything about me pre-him could matter, and I swallowed it.

When he proposed to me I arranged to meet up with my mum to tell her. It's funny - I asked if we could visit a garden centre near her house instead of be in her house, even though i had to travel 2hrs to get to where she lived, because I couldn't bear to be in real life with her, it was all so precarious and the fear of it crashing down was always present. We had lunch in a skanky caff and then when she dropped me off at the bus stop to start the journey home I still hadn't told her; I texted her ten minutes later to say I was getting married. She was devastated and angry and I felt like such a child, so ashamed. She expected me to behave like myself which was so much more than I was managing to be. Our conversations after that were benign and superficial, but I called her every day (the only time of my life I've done that) because it was as close as I could get.

At one point during the relationship I confided in her about some of the things he was doing, the milder things that felt safe to say. At that time she said I'm sorry but I don't think I can hear this stuff, unless you're going to do something about it I can't just hear it and continue to stand by, so please don't tell me anymore. I understood the position but it sadly aligned with his narrative about her not caring and enforced the division.

I'm sorry to be saying all this stuff, it sounds self indulgent and I guess in a way it probably is. Almost everything I've written is stuff that's only come into my head now after 15 ish years from reading your posts. It's so familiar. A big difference is with the money stuff - I had inherited money from my grandparents and bought a flat, he made me remortgage and I was £60k in further debt by the end of the relationship. Taking money from me was a huge part of the reward for him - I think almost as much as the money itself, which he spent lavishly, just knowing he could take my money was so satisfying to him. When he finally left I went out for the day so I didn't have to be in the flat, and he took everything apart from my clothes and pictures on the wall. He took rugs, tele, appliances, pillows, even my dog who he abused awfully, one of my biggest regrets. It was so satisfying for him to take from me. He loathed himself more than anyone I've ever known and making me weak and small was the only thing that made him feel better.

I'm sorry this was long and personal and in lots of ways unconnected. It's rambling and emotional but I wonder if there are elements in it that help you in some way. I really feel for you and hope so much that you are able to find resolve. The comfort is that you are open and patient and mostly that you are family - hopefully their relationship will end and she will be able to rebuild herself (though even in that situation co-parenting after separation will surely be a nightmare with him) and you will be there. Feeling heartbroken, angry and betrayed by her are all valid and important things to carry with you, but I can see that they don't exist to the preclusion of deep love and gentleness. The honesty and purity of those things will likely feel terrifying and threatening to her right now, but they won't always

Gutterton · 23/01/2020 22:18

peelingpaint what a terrible time you endured. I hope that you have since had someone who cherishes you deeply x

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 24/01/2020 07:59

@Albinoni 💐 I am so sorry that naturally this is still such a situation of anxiety and despair. There is such good and wise advice on this thread I hope you take it on board and find peace this year.
Try to focus on yourself this weekend and find peace with it for a bit. Please think ahead so you dont end up as a pay per view for your beautiful GC like they are something than can be bought x

peelingpaint · 24/01/2020 09:57

Thank you @Gutterton I have done. I'm a bit worried about having posted that though, it genuinely was intended to offer some kind of other position but I fear it's just a personal rant

Grohnjant · 24/01/2020 10:23

Peeling your post was immensely helpful to me. Like Albinoni, I have found it so difficult to understand how my loving DD could turn against us all so completely . Your post has given me a different perspective and also a little hope that she may come out the other side. I’m sorry you had to go through all of that . It must have been horrendous but thank you so much for posting about it . X

Gutterton · 24/01/2020 11:54

peeling I think that your post is the most important on this thread x

peelingpaint · 24/01/2020 12:11

@Grohnjant I went through this thread quite compulsively reading all the posts by the op because I was shocked at how they resonated. It was a brief period in my life that I felt like I'd forgotten because it bears not much relationship to 'real life'. I just couldn't believe how much of what lb has done seems so classic and how familiar dd1's behaviour is personally. It means that I haven't read the full thread, just bits and pieces but all the op's posts. I'm sorry I hadn't seen that you are in a similar situation. I'm so sorry to hear it and can't imagine the pain. I dearly hope that your situation resolves and your family can find peace in each other again. I'll have a better read through of the thread later on. And thank you so much for what you said about my post. And @Gutterton too - you've both shown such kindness that has been really soothing for me. I'm grateful x

peelingpaint · 24/01/2020 12:24

For what it's worth I would be surprised if she does the pgce, or at least gets through the first term.

@Grohnjant are you referring to heroin? When you mention his and subsequently her habit?

SirVixofVixHall · 24/01/2020 12:35

I have been through a similar situation to peeling, and I think it is hard to understand unless you have been in a controlling relationship ( it is hard enough to understand when you have, as it creeps up, slowly).
To the outside world it looks like your own choice, but in your life, your choices are so diminished, and the punishments potentially so severe, that you remain, firefighting from day to day.
I didn’t tell my parents because I felt ashamed, and because I was terrified of him turning up on their doorstep, and that being all my fault.
You are told so often that everything is your fault that you believe it. It is hard to explain. I have been wrestling with ideas on how to extricate your dd OP - all I can say is that I was given a way out, by a friend who offered me a room in her house, and I took it.

Is there any way at all of seeing your dd on her own ?

Albinoni · 24/01/2020 12:52

Thank you so, so much for all of your advice. I am quite overwhelmed by the kindness on this thread and the time and trouble which people take to respond. I am sorry that I don't always respond immediately, but there is such a lot to take in and I was struggling a bit yesterday.

Random - I think it's good advice to refer her to DH and I think that you are also right about their intentions. I have considered a loan as you and laundry suggest, but then I fear that she wouldn't do her course. LB would just buy another property to rent out and wouldn't get a job, so it would mean that she would be even more trapped, as he would still be there 24/7.

Strawberry - thank you so much for your lovely message, which came in when I was at a very low ebb yesterday and really helped me.

Sir Vix - you articulate so well what I suspect, that underneath it all DD does not want to be estranged, she loves her family. Maybe, at some level she does want to be rescued, but is conflicted because she loves LB. Her ideal scenario would be for us all to be a happy family. It must be really hurting her the way things have turned out, but he made her choose - as I knew he would - and she chose him - as I knew she would- for now at least. I really admire you for your courage and generosity of spirit in how you dealt with your own situation.

Grohn - thank you so much for your kindness and empathy. You are so right about the lack of sleep and I am feeling much better today. I wouldn't want to be a guarantor or locked into anything like that. I wouldn't take any 'official' action against DD so we need to be very cautious as to what we commit to.

Random - you make a good point, which I think Gutterton also makes, we should set the timings and the agenda, not LB, and also remind DD1 that her sisters have to be treated equally, so it is a lot of money to find.

Ledkr - I appreciate and totally agree with your comments. We want to help all of our DDs but we don't want to face an impoverished old age and to be dependent on either them or the state.

Gutterton - fabulous advice again and you were my lifeline yesterday. Your post marked a turning point in my day. I was a heap of emotion earlier in the day and at risk of sending a hurt and angry email to DD1, but you rescued me. I received another photo of DD1 with DGD2 quite early in the day, I took deep breaths sent an innocuous, 'vanilla' reply, saying how sweet, how was she, what was she doing, what we were doing etc. And you know, I felt a whole lot better afterwards. I am so, so grateful to you!

peeling - I can't thank you enough for your posts, for opening up to us on this thread - although I am sure that it must be very painful to relive some aspects. But it is so incredibly helpful in opening my mind to how it must be to live with LB or someone like him. It has really, really helped me, because I love DD1 so much and just want to understand. Your posts and your perspective are invaluable. thank you.

Mint - thank you for your concern and kindness. I really appreciate it.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 24/01/2020 13:29

I would think it highly likely DD can defer, and you stating you can't afford more than £x this autumn but can if she defers 12 months may be enough to reshift the balance of power.

That means LB will have to let her continue having a relationship with you to get the money, the DC will be older etc. It will also be clear if he punishes you again...

Grohnjant · 24/01/2020 15:13

Peeling .thank you for your kind words .
The habits are alcohol, cigarettes and weed for sure, not sure about anything else . Before she met him she was very health conscious and whilst she liked a drink she was very anti smoking and drugs .

You said your controlling ex was affronted by anything “pre him” this seems to be the case for our DD too.

The very last time we saw her she had asked us to bring down some of her possessions ( clothes DVDs CDs books etc ) and some official documents that she had left with us . They’d moved 100s of miles away but we were not allowed to go to their accommodation but she came on her own to a cafe local to them to meet us and she took her stuff .

A couple of days later she rang us to say BF had immediately taken the whole lot to the tip!!
She was devastated, so again , as I had done many many times before when he’d shown his true colours, I said I would drive down and get her . She said she’d think about it but a couple of hours later I received a text ostensibly from her saying it was ok , she was fine , all her old stuff was sht anyway and BF was going to buy her nicer replacements and could we just fck off and stop interfering.

It wasn’t the first time something like that had happened and it sounds so similar to your experiences.

Like Albinoni says it is amazing to have the insight of you and SirVix as it helps to understand the situation. Thank you both ,x

Albinoni , I am pleased you are feeling a bit better again today . What a roller coaster!!! Hope it evens out a bit now . Glad you were able to send DD a “vanilla” response. Bet it’s confusing LB no end :-) .

I’m really benefiting from posting on here too but hope I’m not hijacking your thread too much .
Hope you have a lovely restful weekend . X

itswonkylampshade · 24/01/2020 16:20

I’ve just read this thread, which has moved me to tears. So sorry you are going through this, OP.

I also had a period of partial estrangement from my family whilst in an abusive relationship for about seven years. Looking back it was utter hell. As soon as a year into the relationship I did not know whether I was coming or going - I was subjected to love bombing and intensity immediately followed by days of silence and abrupt, confusing reprimands. I can look back now and see he was a deeply unhappy and inadequate individual but the behaviour meted out where I was concerned was actually wicked. If I spoke up to him he used to ask if I’d been taking “bravery pills”. It was as though, little by little, my understanding of normality was stretched beyond all recognition.

It turned out he was addicted to codeine which (in part) will have explained his mood swings and unpredictability, but in truth he was actually a self-loathing, pathetic individual who profited from bringing others down. It’s interesting to hear the lobster anecdote as it smacks of something my ex would have done - he had a very bloated sense of entitlement and of his own superiority.

I remember buying a house with him when I was heavily pregnant and my parents working so hard to help me get it ready in time for my daughter being born. They papered, laid floors...they worked hard. I loved them dearly. We are a close family and he played every trick in the book to make them feel unwelcome. If they wanted to visit he had to control when, where and for how long. Even if it was just moving the time by an hour when there was no reason to do so, he had to be in control of it. When DD was born I wanted to see them and asked him to call them to the hospital. He went outside and phoned them, telling them not to come (his explanation days afterwards was that he wanted his own mother - who lived five hours away- to be “first”). So grateful that they ignored him and came anyway. I’d have been devastated if they hadn’t. I remember once he started hoovering round my Dad’s feet to try and move him on when he dropped round after work for an unannounced visit when DD was tiny. I went along with, and rationalised all of this to try and maintain the fiction of everything being ok and under control, and also to try and keep things steady and normal at home. I was constantly on eggshells. I slept on the sofa with DD as he was angry if he was disturbed in the night by me breastfeeding her.

He was full of criticism for them and all the while he chipped away at all of my own self worth to the point I did not have the wherewithal to recognise what a truly horrendous situation I was in.

Eventually I reached a crisis point and knew I had to get away from him. My parents had been gravely worried about me but were careful not to show judgement or express concern - looking back they were almost waiting to catch me, I think.

My beloved Mum died last year and I’m so sorry for what I put her through in terms of the stress and worry it must have caused her. I’m so grateful for her steady, loving presence throughout my life, even when I have done the wrong thing. Thankfully I managed to get away from “him” by the time DD was about two. She’s now twelve and hasn’t seen him at all for nearly six years. She and my Mum had a beautiful, loving relationship despite all the hurdles he had tried to put in their path (and there were many). While I wasn’t under any pressure to ask them for money, and totally agree with the other posters advising caution, I would also try your best to stay emotionally available to her if and when she does need help to lift herself out of this situation she is in. As a PP said, she’s been brainwashed and I think when you are in a situation where someone is so dominant over you, you can behave in ways that are about survival and which don’t reflect well on you as a person. It doesn’t mean she doesn’t love you. I truly think, reading your posts here, she has lost all perspective on normality and that’s because she’s in a relationship with an abusive, manipulative individual.

Ledkr · 24/01/2020 16:28

You sound like a really lovely person op and a terrific mother.
Never ever forget that. Flowers

peelingpaint · 24/01/2020 16:31

@Grohnjant that's depressing, sorry to hear it. Self medicating will be helping her cope I imagine, to detach herself from reality. As well as the fact that sitting in your house watching someone use is intensely boring and depressing and her world will be much smaller now so there's little other escape. It must be hard to look at your child and not feel you know them at all. Once I skinned up and smoked a joint in a pretty important meeting - so so unlike me and it's an embarrassing memory to reflect on, but I was just in such a bad place.

All those acts of sabotage are so bizarre and extreme it's hard to believe anyone would stay in the situation but as @SirVixofVixHall says it's so hard to explain but their punishments to you become internalised and you kind of need them, to numb the shame a bit and balance the awful choices you've made.

And I agree with sirvix about the exit point, I wonder if it's even possible for it to come from the very people who are so threatening to the partner (ie your family) - there needs to be someone very neutral, who appears as no threat to him, to offer kindness. The pgce could obviously lead to this, which I why I question how long she'll be able to stay on it

SirVixofVixHall · 24/01/2020 16:39

you behave in ways that are about survival
I very much agree with this. Your life becomes smaller, your support networks are whittled away, you are isolated and financially controlled. You live from moment to moment.
Fear of doing something “wrong” is extremely stressful, it has a huge impact on one’s health, emotionally and physically. Tip toeing around someone’s moods, it is a horrible way to live. It isn’t love. I don’t imagine that your dd does love LB any more, deep down. I think she is trapped. If my abusive boyfriend was out, I would daydream about him being killed in a car crash. I literally could see no other way to be free if him, I couldn’t think rationally, because I was too ill from stress to think at all.

peelingpaint · 24/01/2020 16:40

@itswonkylampshade you're amazing. Well done for getting out of there and giving your daughter exactly the constancy and unconditional presence your mum gave you.

And haha re the lobster reference. The amount of times I had to sit in fancy restaurants negotiating the bill cos my card was declined for the champagne/5 course meal/dinner for 12 people, I'd completely forgotten about that part. Can't believe how much of a standard script there seems to be. Even the bravery pill comments

itswonkylampshade · 24/01/2020 17:05

@peelingpaint it’s interesting hearing from others who’ve been in a similar situation isn’t it. You feel so isolated in one way and embroiled/codependent in another.

I do worry about the impact of what’s essentially parental abandonment on DD - it’s something I literally cannot imagine. But I also know his influence on her would have been toxic if he chose to be involved so it’s the lesser of two evils imho.

OP sounds, to me, like a loving Mum and that love will endure despite the most challenging trials, in my experience.