Dating a muslim man

[Lozalot]

My partner is muslim. We have a wonderful relationship and I have never been happier with someone. By muslim that I mean he was raised by a muslim family, however he is not a practising muslim (out of his own choice he does not pray or even fast at ramadan). However he still believes. He has essentially told me that if we are to stay together and get married that I must covert. For me I feel this is very unfair as he does not even practise the religion. I am a strict athiest and to say I believe in any form of religion goes against my nature and principles. However we have a very happy and loving relationship so now I find myself in an awful position. Should I give him an ultimatum or is there a way we can make it work?

Ah but when you marry, you will become part of his family. So pleasing his family will be top priority. Your family will become an irrelevance. We actually spend Christmas with his family which is something I find quite ludicrous, given my lot are the ones who actually go to church and care about Jesus! (There are also logistical reasons that make seeing my family at Christmas, combined with my desire to host impractical, but sheesh, no pigs in blankets at Christmas!)

At the root of this is his desire to appease his family, who feel pressured by strong links to their community.
I know many Muslims who lie to their parents about what they get up to and about their relationships.
In many case, they don’t actually want to be so religious but don’t want to hurt or dishonour their family.
Many people who aren’t religious will still want to follow the religious rituals. Sometimes for family, sometimes for ‘just in case’.
Those rituals are often to do with weddings, children and religious celebrations.
He’s told you what he wants. It doesn’t sound like you’re compatible in this aspect.

I think you’ll all be happy to know that I will not sacrifice my own beliefs and principles, it’s just a matter of whether we can work together or not..

If you convert, even just on paper, you are sacrificing your own beliefs.

His culture puts his family first? You need to be wary. When it makes his mum and/or dad happy, for your kids to go through religious ceremonies? Circumcision?

What if he puts what his family think is right, first?

I think you’re living in fantasy land

Run

Lily lower you are talking out & out bigoted crap. I suggest you read "The Pillars of Islam" as you need educating

OP I've seen this scenario in action with friends, the issue is, whether he practises or not, he is a believer & you are absolutely not. When DC come along this will become huge & he will have family pressure too. It's normal for the partner to convert if they marry into a religion & expect a service in that faith. It happens in Christian religions too. He's laid his cards on the table that his religion means enough to him that he wants to marry within it & therefore it is important to him.

How important is it that your DCs are brought up up as atheists?? Or is your non faith not such a big deal that you'd want to inflict it on your kids kids & happily let them grow up with some Muslim grounding in faith. That's going to determine whether or not this is a sustainable relationship

To make it work I think you just have respect each others beliefs. My best friend is Muslim, not really practising though. Her partner is Irish Catholic, also not really practising. They have 6 children, who look Asian but have Irish names. They go to the same Catholic school as my children and celebrate Christian festivals, but they also celebrate Muslim festivals. When they visit the mum's family they wear Muslim dress but they all wear jeans and t-shirts etc the rest of the time. They've been together about 20 years, so it works for them.

My niece had a child with her muslim boyfriend of four years. They'd been together since uni and were living together. She refused to convert as she didn't want her ds to be subject to certain requirements if the faith. He seemed quite lovely whenever they visited.

He went on a 'family holiday' and came back with a wife. Despite the odd booty call for around a year (she told me this sobbing over a bottle of wine) he had no contact. He does not acknowledge his son since he could not get full custody.

I don't think its fair to cast aspersions on a while religion, but it's silly to deny there aren't misogynistic overtones to many of them. Niece and her ds were just seen as his folly of youth before he got a 'proper' wife.

Sorry, but this is never going to work. His family will never accept you as a 'daughter in law'.
These kind of relationships always go wrong if you don't 'conform'.

I don’t understand how an atheist can convert to a religion. As a fellow atheist I can say that not in a million years would I consider this. Why should your principles be subsumed by his belief. Sod that.

I don't think this could ever work with a husband who is not willing to stand io to his family (for you) and willing to tell them that he will put his family first. That their wishes or religion has to come second to your relationship.

Well, unless you're simply willing to comply with his wishes and convert. And as I and others have already said, conversion will be taken as an agreement to certain things. Like raising your dc in the religion, circumcision etc. And putting his family first (like he seems to be doing already).

He clearly isn't the willing to be the person in scenario 1. You're clearly not willing to be the person in scenario 2.

That's fine, you're both adults and free to do whatever you want.
But do you really think this has a future? You sound incompatible.
I'd be very careful and do anything to prevent a pregnancy.

I think it can work on the sender that I know a couple of men who were born and brought up Muslim and who have married out of their faith and never imposed conditions on their wives.
But I agree there are red flags in this case
Ask him how he would react to his sister moving in with her atheist boyfriend and how that would make him feel.
That will probably give a good insight into how he would react to any children you have together in the future.

I wonder if that's because they can do what they like and wear what they like Not so much for the women!
No, they did it for their partners.
Judaism is matrilineal so it doesn't matter if the man is Jewish.
This is very true but my friend, whose husband converted to Judaism, really wanted a Jewish husband and he was happy to oblige. I asked her what she would have done if he'd say no--she said wouldn't have married him (even though she loved him and had emigrated to be with him.) It works for them.

My ex husband was a muslim, in the beginning he was like your partner he was not practising the religion but after we got married he become more devoted and expected me to slowly convert, he become extremely controlling and possessive, his family were lovely but they also expecting me to cover up and start practicing; I stayed with him for five until I realised that I could not do it; I got out before we had children as I knew it wouldn’t work because for the right or wrong reasons I didn’t want them to go through this

So basically he can do what he wants but you will have to do what he wants and what his religion expects.

Run a mile. Agree with everything @Lilyflower1 wrote in her first post.

It is also my experience that men of whatever faith or none become more traditional once they've married and had children. My DH would ideally like to have me at home, baking in a pinny! Thank fuck that's not how we live, but I'd never have guessed that when we were dating and always pissed and having a laugh. We still have a laugh but I'm just illustrating how men really do become more traditional once they have a family.

I would run a MILE from this man.

This is where it starts.

He’s showing you who he is.

It’s not going to work out, move out and end it.

Everything said on this thread about how he will get more and more controlling is true.

Despite agreeing with everyone else that you shouldn't convert if you don't believe, and that he shouldn't be trying to force you to - the fact remains that he did tell you this at the start. The fact that you thought you could reach a compromise wasn't actually discussed with him - you just thought it.

I really do have total sympathy for you, but he's essentially raised this early in the relationship, you've said you might be willing to convert on paper, and unless I've missed something that's the sum total of the conversation you've both had about it?

I still stand by you are not compatible and you shouldn't convert unless you genuinely want to and have some belief, but I do think he's getting a bit of a rough ride from people saying he's "turned around and suddenly said this" or similar. Maybe he's saying it more strongly now, but he has said it from the start.

Unless I've misunderstood! In which case I'm happy to be put wrong

he shouldnt be forcing you. thats unacceptable.

Lifeisabeach09 I think what pp meant is that if it was a religion that would have heavily restricted men, how they live what they wear, if they work, who they speak to.....its less likely that they would have converted and agreed to live like that.

Can I ask what a 'Jewish husband' is? And why she always wanted one?

To me that's like saying I always wanted a blonde wife, so will get the brunette I fancy to bleach her hair.

if we are to stay together and get married that I must covert

Famous MN saying, when someone tells you who they are, believe him. And be grateful that he didn't wait til after you are married to explain that his expectations from a girlfriend and from a wife are v v different.

Believe him. Don't expect him to change this to suit you.

figure out a way for his family to be happy

He has told you that his was to keep his family happy is to marry a Muslim who will take responsibility for doing everything required by the culture, especially in the parenting of children

Inform yourself about what you are letting yourself in for. Please don't look for solutions which involve lying to close family. How would that ever work with children?

many expectations that us from a western culture cannot understand

Some of us understand pretty clearly the role of religion / culture in the control of women.

It's up to you to decide whether you can live like this.

I dispute the view Lily that the religion is misogynist

All Abrahamic religions are misogynistic. OP don’t compromise your atheist principles. He shouldn’t ask this of you.

No. The only reason to convert to a religion is because you believe in it/find comfort in it. You should never convert to satisfy someone else. A good partner will accept you as you are.

FWIW, I am in a long-standing interfaith marriage. In the early days of our relationship, I was going to church regularly while my DH was fairly uninterested. Twenty years on, I am an atheist and he is much more religious. Neither of us have ever expected the other to change their beliefs. We agreed that any children would be raised to respect and learn about all faiths but follow none.

It doesn't sound to me like there is a future in your relationship. Please don't compromise your own integrity in order to please him. If he truly loves you, he will not require it.

RUN!!! I’ll not say on here how I know, but please, please listen to me......RUN!

Religion is a big deal.
If you're not on the same page, it will cause you grief and heartache.
In your position, however much you love this man, I don't think it will work out happily.