Dating a muslim man

[Lozalot]

My partner is muslim. We have a wonderful relationship and I have never been happier with someone. By muslim that I mean he was raised by a muslim family, however he is not a practising muslim (out of his own choice he does not pray or even fast at ramadan). However he still believes. He has essentially told me that if we are to stay together and get married that I must covert. For me I feel this is very unfair as he does not even practise the religion. I am a strict athiest and to say I believe in any form of religion goes against my nature and principles. However we have a very happy and loving relationship so now I find myself in an awful position. Should I give him an ultimatum or is there a way we can make it work?

It's possible to have an interfaith relationship.

However what concerns me in your post is he wants a "Muslim wife", which probably given his own lapsed observance doesn't refer to a woman of faith, but more a convenient way of saying he expects his wife to have children, run the household and do what he says.
He seems quite selective in his approach to religion.

If you were a Christian, would he covert if you made that requirement? In my experience, this is an indication of what may become later on. Once you get married, he will have ownership of you. You will not be an equal to him or his family, and you will always be reminded of that. I know because I had a Muslim partner who also said the same as your partner. It didn't take him very long to show me, litteraly, that he wanted to beat the western Scandinavian out of me.

Just a tip - in my experience , many men become more devout in their religion when they marry, and in particular when they have children. It's like all the lifetime of religious teaching comes back to them , even if they've been non-practicing for years.

I echo this advice. One of my best friends from childhood could have written your OP and the above is exactly what happened to her husband. Now, she doesn't quite cover her face in public, but not far off.

If he were informed:

A - it’s revert (not convert) considered going back to the faith you lost

B - a women does not need to be Muslim to marry a Muslim man but she does need to be “of one book” therefore Jewish or Christian counts. This is because any children are considered to be naturally of the fathers religion. A Muslim woman can not marry a non Muslim man.

You really need to think about this, and wait far longer than a year to consider marriage and babies. I married a Muslim, the religion didn’t cause an issue, he didn’t expect me to revert, but even so he expected the DC not to eat pork and if we had boys they would have been circumcised. We had a small debate over shaving their head and having a sheep sacrificed to feed the poor at birth (no to the first yes to the last), and we agreed they can learn the faith but not be forced to follow it.

There are so many intricacies to be ironed out and to me a man saying you have to switch to his religion is a warning sign. Which you as an atheist can’t get over that first hurdle.

I think that the request for conversion is a big warning of things to come. To me, it's a sign of control.
He he truly loved you it wouldn't be on the table.

You don't have a wonderful relationship as he has expressed that for the relationship to continue you have to change a fudemental part of yourself!

Controlling, worrying.

I would not entertain this for one minute. Absolutely no way would I convert to a religion he doesnt even practise and then have that held over my head for every decision in the future.

It is tricky but if you have only been together a year I would be cutting my losses and leaving him over this. It's a fundamental clash which there isnt a compromise for.

Sorry, perhaps I should explain further.
I have met his family and we get along very well, actually they are all pretty open-minded but they are from a very conservative culture and therefore this is all they know. They have been indoctrinated to think that they must only marry another muslim.
My partner has ‘broken free’ from this culture and where we are living now is pretty ‘western’ and he himself is open-minded (hence, he is not a practising muslim) but when he returns to his hometown he is pressured to pray etc.
I’d like to emphasise that he has not been manipulative, this is the way he has been brought up.
However, his family want him to marry a muslim, my family for sure would not like me to convert. I understand both viewpoints actually.
I suppose the point of my OP was to say that my partner has changed in so many ways already, do you think it would ever be possible for his view to change on this?
Having those of you tell me your own stories has been very helpful.
This is my plan:

1. discuss with him the ‘practicalities’ of marriage and life together, expectations for children etc
2. let him know my viewpoint that I will never be able to believe (before he has said that all he wishes is for me to learn about his religion so i wonder if this is still possible)
3. figure out a way for his family to be happy (as he lies to them everyday about his current situation I wonder if he would be possible for this to continue and for us to both live as we currently do)

OP your last post still sounds like the situation my friend was in.

You can learn about his religion without converting to it.

His families 'happiness' is irrelevant. You don't need to be Muslim.

Run

He hasn't changed unless he tells his family to back off, stop the pressure to pray when he goes to his hometown and let him be the new westernized person he is now.

He wants you to convert. He wants you to be a Muslim wife. He has not changed.

If he changed, he would not pressure you and he would accept you as you are

as he lies to them everyday about his current situation I wonder if he would be possible for this to continue and for us to both live as we currently do

Speechless

figure out a way for his family to be happy (as he lies to them everyday about his current situation I wonder if he would be possible for this to continue and for us to both live as we currently do)

I would not feel comfortable marrying a man who lies to his family everyday! I would assume that ultimately he would be lying to me and our family too!

He hasn’t broken free of his culture, he is just living a lie if he is pretending to his parents that you guys aren’t living together. I would respect someone more if they owned their decisions. He was upfront about wanting a wife to be Muslim so that is good. However it seems like he just wants his Fun before settling doing & being traditional. I can tell you are hopeful & want to find a way forward together, so hopefully someone from a successful interfaith marriage can help

OP,
I was raised by a Muslim DF. My DM is British Catholic. My DM didn't convert (as PP have said, there is no requirement too) However, Muslims (male or female) always view the children as Muslims. In my case, my Dsis and I weren't required to cover our hair unless we were going to mosque. Only times I went to a mosque (from what I remember!) was to get marry to my non-Muslim partners. I've had three partners who have 'converted' to Islam in order to be with me. It was in name-only but they were happy to do it. No ultimatums involved. I would have accepted if they'd refused, my DF not so much.

I've met a number of men who have converted from either a Christian faith or atheism to Islam and Judaism for their spouses. And they are practicing!

I think you need to have a serious chat with him and lay down how you feel and what you are not willing to do. It's early days for you both but sounds like he has been straight up from the start about wanting a Muslim wife.
Sometimes people are just incompatible for life reasons.

However, his family want him to marry a muslim

It's none of their business. If his family's happiness is more important to him than his future wife's happiness, he is not someone I would want to marry.

I also wouldnt want to he with someone who lies about me and keeps secrets. If he can lie to his family so easily what will stop him lying to you?

You get along very well because they tolerate you, they may even like you. But they see you as temporary. Any change in your status will be met by their being difficult. Perhaps not outwardly or overtly confrontational, but awkward. I got on splendidly with my in laws for the six years before we were married. Our moving in together was a little fraught and our engagement also. Outwardly pleased, but little barbed comments here and there. Our marriage was very stressful, the guest list was contentious. There were comments about how I would bring shame on the family by doing it cheaply and badly (I knocked it out the park for our wedding, and it was cheap). There were so many rows about the wedding, at one point his parents were uninvited, and even on the day they almost derailed the whole thing by making everyone late and ‘getting lost’. Then came out first child, oh my goodness, what a furore. Constant battle with them (and sometimes him as a proxy of them) over every little thing. Everything I did she would be in his ear (on the phone) criticising. We even had to tell them about our second pregnancy as soon as we knew because there was some almighty row about something I had or hadn’t done that was a massive issue. Much shouting about my shortcomings.

We are finally in a good place. I mostly keep them at arms length, but am cordial and inviting. And I have to say, that the only reason that I think I’m getting an ok deal from them right now is actually because I think there are concerns about SILs marriage to someone who culturally is a better match for their family. I’m not sure what’s going on but they are unhappy with his behaviour and so I’m getting an easy ride. I finally feel like I’m being let back into the family fold, though I don’t know if it will last.

I love my husband. I love my kids, and our life together. But we have had many many years of unnecessary battles. All because I’m not what they wanted. People will warn you that cross cultural marriages will fail, and that’s because so many of them do. You need to go into this with your eyes open, and frankly your last post makes it sound like you’re already being manipulated and making excuses for him.

He's lying to his family about you living together and that he's not practicing now. You will either have to lie to them too or, more likely, he will decided that a girlfriend can leave him but it's far more difficult for a Muslim wife to leave him and he'll suddenly become religious (and you're Muslim too now, so you need to do the same) Is he going to lie to his parents about your sons being circumcised or is he going to pressurise you into doing it because his parents want it? You're not trapped now. Once you're married and have children, you will be.

Thank you for your further responses.
In my culture, I have complete freedom to do what I want and my family would only frown upon someone not making me happy or controlling me.
In his culture, there are many expectations that us from a western culture cannot understand. I respect that he just wants to keep his family happy. Actually in his culture his family will always come first, even before his partner, but to some extent I feel the same way.
Anyway thank you for making me think from a different perspective. Love sure does make you blind! I have told him many times that he should be honest with his family, but I know how serious the consequences would be and that is his choice.
I have a lot to think about! From my cultural perspective this situation is absolutely ludicrous and if I’d heard someone telling me the same then I would simply laugh, however when you are in love with someone from such a different culture they could practically be from a different planet, there are many things you have to consider, be tolerant to and open-minded about.
Thanks for all your replies and support. I will talk with him about everything and let’s see what happens! I think you’ll all be happy to know that I will not sacrifice my own beliefs and principles, it’s just a matter of whether we can work together or not.
Thanks again.

This is a common story. These men are always more than happy to have girlfriends outside of their religion, but when it comes to a wife it’s a very different story. There have been so many threads on here from women who’ve converted and been amazed in the complete 180 their husbands have made re. their religion.

Honestly? You need to break up with him. Don’t dream of marrying him. Your future children, as people have said, will be expected to be strict Muslims. Any sons will have to be circumcised.

There’s even a thread on MN running right now from a woman who converted to Islam and was hoping to keep celebrating a secular kind of Christmas (I.e. the kind of Christmas most of us celebrate in the UK) for her children with tree and presents and her husband says no.

I’m in a mixed marriage and it works because my husband is as much of an atheist as I am.

Run.

No, as religions go it the most sexist and backward towards women. If you have an Islamic marriage you are essentially agreeing to abide by their rules including that a woman's voice is worth half that of a man. If he loves you truly he wouldn't ask this of you.

I've met a number of men who have converted from either a Christian faith or atheism to Islam and Judaism for their spouses. And they are practicing!
I wonder if that's because they can do what they like and wear what they like Not so much for the women!

Judaism is matrilineal so it doesn't matter if the man is Jewish. You're Jewish if your mother is Jewish. My DH is Jewish, my children are not. It's more difficult to convert as well to judaism.

@Haworthia I agree with you she should leave, especially with future children to consider. But was afraid of being labelled anti muslim. It’s the secrecy with the family & hypocrisy that I don’t agree with. I concur the family tolerates her, if they knew they were living together the shit would hit the fan & you will see how it really is going to be.

Family first - when you marry someone they become your family & to always be subservient to someone’s parents just couldn’t do. I think you either have to be passive person, or both of you quite opinionated, in order to be a combined force against a whole family’s wishes.

How can he have broken free and still be lying to them?

Both cant he true.

Also you said theres no interference from families as they dont live close only when he visits them. Now you seem to imply you have had a lot of contact with them in the year you have been together.

So do you both visit alot?

Honestly, I think your feelings are blinding you to the truth.