Dating a muslim man

[Lozalot]

My partner is muslim. We have a wonderful relationship and I have never been happier with someone. By muslim that I mean he was raised by a muslim family, however he is not a practising muslim (out of his own choice he does not pray or even fast at ramadan). However he still believes. He has essentially told me that if we are to stay together and get married that I must covert. For me I feel this is very unfair as he does not even practise the religion. I am a strict athiest and to say I believe in any form of religion goes against my nature and principles. However we have a very happy and loving relationship so now I find myself in an awful position. Should I give him an ultimatum or is there a way we can make it work?

Do, he doesn't observe one of the five pillars of Islam, doesn't pray, but says he's muslim? .

Exactly the last paragraph of @beingatwatitsabingthing's post.
I was in this position as a younger person.
I do have faith, but I wouldn't convert even if the two are closely linked.
It didn't work for us, his family had expectations which may be where your DP is coming from with his request when he appears to be non practicing. He wanted to be keeping up appearances with his family, friends and the societal expectations.

We cross posted.

To be fair, he told you in the beginning about wanting to have a Muslim wife.

Does he want you to be just a Muslim by paper or he would like to follow Muslim customs? Raise your future kids as Muslims?

Getting married and having children will bring your ILs back in your lives.
How involved are your ILs in the lives of their other married adult children and grandchildren (if they have any of those)?

Do not underestimate your boyfriend's role in the extended family and maybe his desire to satisfy his parents' wishes vs yours.

Do your ILs know you are living together?

I can related to this. I married a man from a Muslim background, although crucially none of the family are practicing/religious and I don’t think he’s been ear a mosque in at least 25 years.

Still, there are challenges we face that are unexpected. Little things mostly. Around superstition and tradition. And the occasional argument arises because of some inherently misogynistic viewpoint. I’m not going to lie, it is at times exhausting. But we get along well and have a good relationship. I don’t think that would be possible if he wanted to be a practicing Muslim, or if it mattered to his family.

For example, would you circumcise your male children? How would you deal with that? What if he wanted you to cover your head? Will your children be allowed to eat sausages at a play date?

I think PP are right when they say religion and culture become more prominent at times like marriage and becoming parents, and I’m not sure that at the moment this sounds like it will be harmonious. These are things you need to bottom out before you go any further. You need to be true to yourself.

Educate yourself about the practicalities of being Muslim . If you’re ok with this then convert . Otherwise get out now .
Not all but many men are happy to carry on as he is BUT once married and with a family their views change and as others have said many become more devout for want of a better phrase and the goalposts alter as might the way you expected to behave and possibly dress .

So basically he wants his cake and to eat it too. He wants all the freedom of not practising but then wants to keep one foot in the door. He wants you to convert because he knows that he has to follow some rules to keep his membership open.

Personally I wouldn't do it.

Nope. I can foresee that you 'convert' then get married and all of a sudden all the restrictions of his religion are suddenly imposed on you and he becomes more devout.

@foxatthewindow and FGM depending on what country he is from.

Also wondering if you've been around his parents and other family members?

@rantyanty true! Circumcision came up for us through his parents but fortunately for us it was an easy no. Head covering hasn’t come up (but then his mum and sisters don’t so that would be unexpected). Sausages has been a constant source of chaos but ultimately we’ve settled on no pork at home and the kids do what they want elsewhere.

I think I got off lightly, but family is a huge part of Muslim culture. Big, extended family. You need to look at his and see what they are like together. Your business will be their business, and life with small babies will be stressful

I’d tread carefully
It’s a very Different culture to the one you grew up In . If you don’t won’t go and he does well - it can’t continue and best to know now

Have you met or spent time with his family yet ?

For me, if he is non-practising I hope that he can respect my views and that we can live peacefully. We both live away from our families therefore family pressure only comes from when he visits.

OP, what happens when he has kids and they visit more and more or takes the kids there.

You havent met them have you? Do they even know about you? Sounds like he is non practising because he is away from home. I would bet money his family believe he is practising and he presents that side to them

My cousin had a whirlwind romance with a Muslim man, & decided to convert so they could get married. He also was not practising and said the conversion was only to appease his family. Now their marriage is so so rocky, they're constantly breaking up and only get back together again because of their daughter. The problem is the cultural differences, not the religion - he was raised to view relationships in a very misogynistic way.

I strongly advise you to have some detailed conversations about what your future relationship will be like before you make this commitment!

It is good he has told you now.

Rather than finding out years later .

Your choice as to how to proceed.

But, yes, you would be unreasonable to give him an ultimatum. You could explore the psssibilty of a compromise but 'abandon Isla or I'm off' isn't really the basis for continuing

Id RUN, run like the wind. That would be a red flag for me
I wont convert to any religion, i find them all as evil as one another

My dh is Catholic and Asian.
I am caucasian European and atheist, born and raised Catholic too.

When we had kids, I encountered the problem of religion and culture

We agreed before kids that kids would find their own religion (or not), so no baptisms unless they choose that themselves
We agreed no head shaving(s) as offering to God.

Guess what happened?
He wanted to baptize the kids to make his parents happy.
He wanted to shave their heads too, his parents would love it that we also followed tradition

He wanted his parents- his mother was very adamant about it- to come for 3 months to help at the birth of my second child
His mother wanted me to take turmeric while pregnant so the kids would come out very fair skinned - I have no words for this racist superstition and I despise it.

None of it happened. I set him up straight fast and respected me.

Do you think your bf can also do the same? If not, run!

Islam isn't just a culture - it's a religion. IMO if you don't believe then it's really disrespectful to Muslims to 'pretend'.

You've only been together a year and he already thinks you should change everything you've ever known.

Why does he want a Muslim wife? Has he explained that?

...his is a religion which has misogyny built into its DNA.

Have you read the Bible?
All the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religions are misogynistic.

true all the religions are misogynistic as back in the day when they came about, women were simply property.

You can’t have a long and successful relationship if your fundamental values clash. You can have different religious beliefs. I’m Jewish (in more than just a cultural sense) and dh is an atheist. It’s not an issue. Because we both fundamentally believe that spirituality and religious beliefs are a personal choice and no one gets to impose their beliefs on someone else or claim that their belief system takes precedence. We have similar feelings about the institution of religion and are equally critical of how the power of these institutions has been wielded - we’ve just responded to that in personally different ways. It’s never been an issue. Being expected to convert by force because it’s the ‘done thing’ means your partner has vastly different fundamental values. In the long run, especially if you have children, this will inevitably cause conflicts. It’s also just bloody disrespectful.

He has essentially told me that if we are to stay together and get married that I must covert. For me I feel this is very unfair as he does not even practise the religion. I am a strict athiest and to say I believe in any form of religion goes against my nature and principles. However we have a very happy and loving relationship so now I find myself in an awful position.

You do not just find yourself in an awful position. This man put you there.

Converting to a religion is a major step. Even if you don't actually believe, it's imo still an agreement (and it will be taken as an agreement) to raise your children in that religion and comply with certain religious rules and demands.

Don't do it unless you actually believe and or want to practice the region / parts of it for other reasons..

He knew what you are. You didn't lie to him. For him to insist on this now (not just saying that he'd prefer it / that it would be nice)? After a year? It's incredibly manipulative imo.

Red flags all over OP, why did you move in together after only 6 months? Expecting someone non religious to convert is wrong and controlling. I'd be exiting the relationship sharpish so as not to be put under pressure. But as someone who doesn't believe in organised religion, as it is merely a tool of control imo, I would never get involved with someone religious in the first place, even if non practicing.

Lots of red flags in your post. I think you should end it.

@Lozalot don't marry him. I married a Muslim man who when we first met and until we got married was really lovely. Caring,respectful, kind etc
Once we were married he started to change really quickly and started to tell me what I should wear, how I should act etc. Unbeknownst to me he'd also told his family I was a devout practising Christian (I wasn't but he felt it would be more acceptable to people if I was 'religious' even if not myslimbas they have a general respect for religion )
He then tried to get me to convert to Islam claiming I'd agreed to do so before we got married .
So many different sides to him came out that I hadn't seen before.
We separated 3 years after DD was born and then divorced.
Unfortunately I'll never be rid of him out of my life now. He tries to control me still and causes untold upset to DD who is only 10.
A lot of his friends also married non Muslims and I don't know a single couple who are still together
My advice would be don't marry him and don't have children with him

I think he will have very different views on his girlfriends should act vs how wives should act. You’re already living together. Can you really respect his thought processes on this? He is a complete hypocrite.

Just a tip - in my experience , many men become more devout in their religion when they marry, and in particular when they have children.

This is absolutely correct - and I've experienced it first hand.

Top tip: they (and their family) will expect female service from you and have zero expectations of either service or behaviour from him. His bad behaviour will be your fault and any "failings" of your pre-relationship (e.g sex before marriage) will not be forgiven of you. Of course it's fine for him. He's a man.

Someone so religious even though he can't be shagged to go to services that he requires conversion of you? Just walk away. Wish I'd run furiously from my "devout" non-church-going "believer".

I'd even suggest the devout ones who dont bother to attend services are worse - they're more likely to require adherence and "good" behaviour of others women which they don't think is necessary of themselves.