"But we took you to Stately Homes" November 2019 onwards thread

[toomuchtooold]

It's November 2019, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014
July 2014
Oct 14 – Dec 14
Dec 14 – March 15
March 2015 - Nov 2015
Nov 2015 - Feb 2016
Feb 2016 - Oct 2016
Oct 2016 - Feb 2017
Feb 2017 - May 2017
May 2017 - August 2017
August 2017 - December 2017
December 2017 - November 2018
November 2018-May 2019
May-August 2019
August-October 2019
October-November 2019
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

It's all designed to drag you down to their level and keep you there Chilled
they cannot tolerate anyone getting above them or ahead of them, putting them in a bad light or exposing any of their flaws, anything that makes them look bad by comparison has to be crushed
it's just a knee-jerk reaction, so deeply ingrained in them is this

Dm never worked and me going to uni was a real problem. Don't turn into a snob. She used to try and keep me off school to keep her company. At uni I got no help but I worked so I didn't rely on them. When I once asked for help she shouted at me that is was my decision to go. When I came home from uni she screamed I was using the place as a hotel. So eventually I stayed in the uni town even in holidays. Sadly for one reason or another I came back near home and haven't got out of their clutches until now. They tell everyone about me but dh says people know I am a good person and not to worry about them.

I just keep away from them. Only time my father rings is for me to give them money or for me to go and clean their house as dm is sick (then she swans off to hotels for a break). It's all laughable.

The special occasion sounds problematical. Do you absolutely have to go?

I'm not going now. I can't bring myself to go.

Chilledout I don't think you should bring yourself to go! It feels like a duty, doesn't it? But you really don't owe them a thing.

Therapy yesterday was crap, she's changed the method from structured sessions to completely open-ended, it was shit, I was in there 20 mins (instead of an hour), and I had so much I needed blurt out.

I'm about || from self-harming, my emotional insides are n hysterics, crying and screaming for help.

So after going I'm feeling about a million times worse,and I'd mustard the courage to expel things, now it's all raw and heavy. Not sure what I do in a month when I see her again (if I bother to go). Then my extremely important hospital appointment was utterly shit too. Funny how a little blip can destroy months of work on myself.

Hope you got my email @toomuchtooold

Oh Steve, deep breaths now.

I don't understand why your therapist changed the method. Did she discuss it with you or in any way prepare you for that? Even so, she must realise that if you could only stand it for twenty minutes instead of the full hour, you were struggling with the change.

Perhaps wait for a couple of days while you work on regaining your composure and then contact her to explain why this was so monumental for you and how to move forward? Obviously, not suggesting you do this today, or even tomorrow, when you are feeling so raw, but when you have your thoughts more in order.

What do you usually do to cope when you are feeling so wounded? What works best for you? Is it something you could do now to just tide you over?

Sending you virtual hugs and and

When I was first seeing her in 2017 it was clear she was invested, and maintains that my parents and brother are narcissistic, toxic, poisonous people and she repeated that yesterday but the empathy and investment weren't there in the session. Bear in mind, this is the first person I told about my rape, and apart from you lovelies here 💕 , the first person I told about my family issues, although so much remains inside me unsaid anywhere.

She knows I react badly to sudden change and loss of control, I can only assume it's come from a senior. The therapist is well aware that December is the worst month for me and the change in me is akin to a cataclysmic event.

I normally take diazepam but that's been stopped so I have no medicaments to help deal, and no zopiclone (diazepam replacer) until a fortnight.

You don't want to know how I cope, it's self-harm that puts me at risk of needing emergency medical care, but never suicidal to get that control back.

I don't have my music production equipment set up either.

I think I'll put music on and have a nap and block the emotions out. Had more shit news 30 mins ago too, can't win.

Music then, Steve, lots of it, and the refuge of sleep. Sending you more virtual hugs.

Steve do you want to do the “blurt out” to us or would that be too exhausting? There is nothing worse than leaving a counselling session feeling like you have not being heard. I can only imagine how you are feeling after that and especially when this is such a tough time of year for you. I am so sorry. 💓💓💓

Steve, I'm sorry you had such a crap yesterday. How are you feeling this morning? Can you get yourself to a walk-in clinic and see if you can get some medication to tide you over? You may need something if you're feeling this bad, or at least to talk to a GP. December is such a triggering month, I just want to crawl into a hole and sleep until its all over. Take care of yourself.

I had a bad anxiety attack last weekend. I felt like I couldn't breathe. When this happens I'm convinced that I have to leave my DH and I come so close to telling him, but knowing it would destroy him and my DCs stops me. It went on for a few days, I was in a mess (don't know how he didn't notice). Then remembered I had a stash of Fluoxetine left from when I decided at the beginning of the year that I could come off them, that I was better and could cope. Well over the summer months I can, but clearly not come December. Anyway, popped one and felt almost instantly better (think initially it was just deciding to do something). I feel calm now. I don't want to run away anymore. My poor DH. I do love him and he's wonderful, but anxiety just makes me question it all and I want to run for the hills. Accepting that I need medication and may do for the rest of my life is hard, but I think right for me.

Steve. Thinking of you

I've name changed but I need to get this out. There has been an accident in the family and I just received a text saying I'm selfish (it was weeks ago). My heart is broke. I can't go near the family. They scream and say horrible things. For years I was the 'good girl and went along with everything while they lived in a mess. I can't go near them but I am a good person (I hope) and it's not like me to stay away.

@Little, you are not selfish or if you are that's not a bad thing ...one's first duty is to one's self, you have to look after yourself and your own well-being, protect yourself from people who are harmful to you.
the text is just an attack, it's them lashing out because they want to punish you for not obeying them.
You must stay away from people who are harmful to you.
I'm so sorry you're suffering like this Steve (((hug)))

My dh has had enough of them. He says it's another stunt. But I don't think they would lie. The sibling that text said they tried to ring but I wouldn't answer as I only care about myself. Another sibling has been texting me all week and didn't mention it.

They just want to draw you in and get you embroiled with all their machinations so that they can manipulate you, any kind of a crisis is the golden opportunity for these types of people, everyone is stressed and much more easy to manipulate.
I hereby give you permission to stay well away 😊

You have no idea how much your support means to me. I feel the accident is a real opportunity for drama and get no one told me until this morning.

We are here for you Little😊
No one told you until this morning?
Sounds as if they were saving it up, being strategic, making sure that they could use this weapon for maximum advantage ...like it's a missile and they want to precisely target it

If anyone accuses me of being selfish or just caring about myself I say 'damn right I do, you always got to look out for number one don't you'
That might not always be the best strategy but sometimes if you just own it and say 'yeah, and?'
Well it can work😉

Basically things were always bad. Dm was aggressive and critical all her life. I used to be afraid to come home from school. As I grew up I made my own way but she would always have falls/urgent medical needs. She would tell me people think I am boring. I was hard-working and liked school and worked hard to get into a good profession and own my own home (they live on benefits). We are very different people. No one knows the real them as they put on a show for everyone. One of my siblings moved abroad. The other is under their influence.

@Littleshortcake

I think the accident/emergency/illness thing is interesting. The accepted thing in society is that we drop everything and come running, which is why it’s used I think. I think we can enquire about what practically is being done, and offer support with that. But there’s no responsibility to offer emotional support if it’s going to prove costly to you.
That sounds dreadful to ‘normal’ people, but I think in our circumstances that just has to be accepted. The situation is dreadful, but we should salvage what we can.

It does sound as though they are just trying to draw you back in, Littleshortcake.

Let's just unpack this a little and see if I understand. The alleged accident took place weeks ago. You have at least two siblings. One has just sent you a text this morning to notify you of this weeks-old accident and used the opportunity to tell you that you are selfish. Your other sibling has been in touch with you by text all week and has never once mentioned this accident. Your DH thinks it's just another stunt.

In your shoes, I'd be asking myself:

Why now? Why not tell me when it was supposed to have happened?
Why is my other sibling not concerned? Is it because they don't know, either (in which case, why aren't they getting the grief that I am)? Or is it because they know nothing has happened at all
Why does my DH think it's just another stunt? Is this something my family have done before?
If the accident is genuine - and that's a huge "if" - what is it exactly that my family want me to do?

It sounds to me that Ulterego is right - that they've "saved this up" for the right moment to draw you back in.

Do you have anyone you could trust - really trust - who might know the truth?

They can't bear to see you being successful and getting on with your life, they want to drag you back and drag you down, make you work for them.
This is wrong, a good parent wants the best for their children, loves to see their children succeed and be happy and fulfilled.
You have worked hard, you deserve your success, seize the best life you can have, grab it with both hands, run away from them and don't look back

Both my siblings will know. They are in contact with my parents daily. Always have been. I have no one else I can ask. My father tells everyone how 'bad I am. Growing up we were close and he was very supportive even when dm had a temper / episode. He moved abroad for work when I got married so that was his way of escaping though he would never admit it. He would ring me and make sure I visited her. Clean for them. I did for years. Then she would mock and bad mouth me. Slowly I got the confidence to avoid them after she mocked me and I cried and left. I stayed away for months. Then I father screamed at me told me I was a headcase. Made a gesture I was out of my mind. For years we patched things up. Slowly we patched over cracks and when I had my first baby my brother said ' Oh I forgive her for everything'.

I am very high up in my profession (not boasting at all). Which wouldn't have been expected of someone who few up like me.

I know that isn't relevant to the issue (work) but I am well liked and people would be shocked this situation is going on. I have literally not one person (other than dh) who I can talk to. I don't even know what the accident was sibling won't message back after i asked.