DP delaying wedding WWYD

[Angelrocket]

I’ve NC for this, as well as changed a few minor details so it’s less outing.

I’ve been with my DP for 7 years, we have a 3 year old DD, a 1 year old DS, and an 11 year old DSS. We jointly own a mortgaged house together, DSS stays EOW. DP and I are both employed, and work full-time. Both of the little children are in nursery full-time, which takes up a substantial amount of our monthly wage.

DP was previously married; he met, married, and was divorced from exDW in the space of 3 years, as well as having their DS, who was born just after they divorced. I met DP when DSS was 4 and I was not OW.

When we met, DP insisted that he wanted to get married again, and have more children. We got engaged after 3 years together, then started trying for a baby immediately, however instead of it taking a year or so (I was mid 30’s at the time), I got pregnant straight away.

We couldn’t get married immediately because DP had some immigration issues which he wanted to resolve before getting married again, which I agreed to. These issues were resolved earlier this year.

Originally I wanted to get married in church, as I am religious. DP said he didn’t want a church ceremony because it would cost too much. I have suggested a registry office ceremony instead followed by a celebration meal, which includes our little family and close relatives on both sides, so it would be quite a small wedding (in total 30 people).

We currently have about £12k in the bank. DP has now said that we can’t get married until we have at least £20k in the bank (this is not for spending on a wedding, this is just to have in the bank), on top of what we would spend on a wedding. I have worked out a total wedding budget of £3k taking on board his feedback.

I had wanted to get married in Spring 2019 as the immigration issues are cleared, then when that didn’t happen Spring 2020, however he is now saying not to think about a wedding until the money is in the bank as outlined above. I feel like I’ve been led up the garden path, as well as being resentful of him putting these conditions in place, and angry with myself for being so trusting.

Each time one condition is met, it seems he puts another one in its place. He doesn’t seem excited about getting married, or show any signs of eagerness to get married (e.g. he hasn’t applied for a copy of his divorce certificate despite knowing we’d need to take it to the registrar).

What would you do if you were me in this situation, and how would you go about it?

So when he said we need £20k in the bank before getting married I presume you said no, that’s not we agreed, the immigration issue is sorted so now we can get married as we previously agreed, we can continue saving after we get married - what did he say?

It's very easy to sever a joint tenancy and to hold as tenants in common

Of course. But until that is done the other things people are suggesting can't be done and there is zero risk that his share of the house goes to his ex when he dies, even if they are still married.

I can't see any benefit to the OP right now of moving to tenants in common

Why do you want to marry this man? You are financially stable have good earning power, but yet you want to give him half?

He’s already taking more than his fair share with you contributing more to the month put.

I fail to see what you would gain from marriage?

@Angelrocket OP, this is actually my first Mumsnet post (I've been an avid reader for the past year or so but have never actually joined!)... but I read your post and felt compelled to respond.

Firstly, I'm so sorry you've been made to feel this way. You clearly love your DP very much and whilst it sounds that there are positive attributes that he has- both your relationship, and your family to a certain extent, seem to be driven by your initiative and drive to grow. Whether that's the first holiday you booked, the finances that you contribute to significantly towards, your success at work and ability to juggle this with three little ones... and your drive to want to do best for friends and family (which is perfectly clear from your response to @Cuddling57 ). You sound amazing.

I fell in love with a man who was going through a divorce, so I understand how you feel. He was in his 30s and I too knew I wanted to get married and have children. He too reassured me that he wanted the same things. At the time, rightly or wrongly, I sensed it was a risk to let myself fall in love with him (I knew I would fall hard) and had a small concern that after a messy divorce, separation of assets and having felt incredibly hurt and betrayed by his ex wife, he might change his mind and understandably feel more cynical about marriage.

I was wrong- he proposed 12 months later and we married the following year. We've since had a baby and my memories of his divorce are in the distant past. He too is a saver and very risk adverse- he always felt that we could save more... but that never stopped him from giving me the day of my dreams. Ultimately, the day didn't matter to me- but what I appreciated the most was that he was willing to invite all of his family yet again to 'another wedding', and plan enthusiastically this beautiful day- because he knew how much it meant to me. I too would have married him in a no frills ceremony if it meant being able to call him my husband. So I totally get where you're coming from.

I am slightly suspicious about why he doesn't want to get married and I think you're definitely doing the right thing by double checking the divorce records in the registry office.

However the thing that really stands out for me is that he isn't willing to compromise on this. It feels pretty selfish. You share two children together. You divide your finances as a marital couple would- proportionately. You have clearly completely embraced your DSS like a second mother. The fact that you've been put in a position where you're forced to even question whether he's still married is totally wrong. It's also selfish that he won't share his bonus proportionately or that it doesn't factor into the monthly expenditure. Technically he earns £52,000 per annum (basic + bonus)... so he should surely contribute more than 1/3? And incredibly selfish that he wouldn't contribute a fair amount to the holiday.

It seems to me that you're getting the responsibilities of married life without the actual title and it doesn't sound entirely fair.

Apologies for sharing my own story and being open but I just wanted to say that you're not naive- you've gone into this relationship with faith, patience and compromise- as all amazing partners do. You deserve to be with someone who gives you the same back... however positive his attributes, it doesn't sound like he does.

Regardless of the status of his divorce, I seriously think he is pretty selfish. He's either selfish for not considering your feelings or selfish for not telling you the whole truth.

Apologies, last post which I meant to write in my previous one. Why is he even setting conditions?

Marriage is just a celebration of what you already have. After several years together and giving him two children- you absolutely shouldn't need to work towards another goal. You should be enough, right now, as you are. £12,000 savings and all. I'm not an idealist but it might be worth reminding him that one of the vows is to love one another, for richer and for poorer. It's therefore pretty ironic that his condition for marriage is financial.

Londonmummy
You’re right about his income being more. But the 12k bonus was net so making his income around 55k.

Angelrocket
I’m disgusted that he didn’t even pay for his son to go on holiday. That should have been enough to seriously put you off. It sounds as if he’s very happy with the status quo right now taking as much as he can.

And why oh why would you settle for a cheapo wedding when you earn around 90k and jointly earn around 145k. That’s bonkers.

In your shoes I’d be saving my arse off from now on to buy him out of the house. What I cannot fathom is that he’s so happy to sponge off you but doesn’t want to legally be entitled to your money. All I can think is that he is so set in a bizarre mindset that you will drain him financially.

And what joyless prick never takes his child on holiday. Sorry. Definitely not a keeper in my book.

Get an appointment with a solicitor near you to explain your rights as a cohabiting couple and find out exactly what you can and can’t claim from him, ie have you a claim against half the savings or no, getting yourself off the mortgage or buying him out. If you don’t have a claim on the savings ask for the savings to be split, if you still want to marry him and say going forward you’ll burn save to your own accounts. Have a conversation with him as to the reason behind the £20,000 savings before getting married and give him an ultimatum - we save the money, set the date, do it cheaply - whatever works best for you and stick with it. Sometimes people are worried about money due to their childhoods, which is a valid reason (from his POV) to hold off getting married and sadly sometimes they just don’t want to. You need to speak to him and find out his reasoning - good luck and I hope you get the answers you want.

You need to stop behaving as if you're married while you're not married. He doesn't get the benefit. I'd say, "doesn't look like it's happening soon so transfer 6k to me because we're not married and it's half mine". You have to start behaving like a partner, not a wife.

This ^

Then find out if he's still married

Then decide if marriage is important to you - really important

Then if it is , leave him

I can only say for me what I value .

Holidays , life experiences with the dc , socialising and yes taking gifts when necessary would be so different to your do that it wouldn’t work for me . That said it isn’t about me but think how you will feel doing it this way while the dc grow up.

Just another question . Has he protected his deposit?

I suggest you see a solicitor separately . Ensure you know everything where you stand currently.

I'd agree with him in the main.

It sounds from your posts so far that marriage is important to you as a couple more from the romantic side of things than as an important legal protection for either one of you. In which case, with three children and considerable financial commitments, it is sensible to prioritise your family's security over a non-essential celebration which as per the budget you've created would cost a decent chunk of your savings, and I also agree with him that costs are likely to escalate.

The only thing about your posts which would give me pause is that fact that all the savings are in his name, if costs were fairly shared between you it would leave you with at least the same disposable income as him which you would then be able to save in your name so you could have equal savings. But it also sounds like a) saving has not been a priority of yours so perhaps that's true anyway just you've spent yours whilst he's saved his or alternatively that this is the best way to save as a family and if he didn't save the money (for you as a family) you'd possibly have spent it (not saying that is the case or trying to accuse you of being profligate, just saying based on the information you've given that's a possible explanation) and b) that you've not, until now, had any problems with the money being in his name, so it's not necessarily something that he's deliberately done to deprive you, just something that's happened because he got a lump sum and just put it straight away.

I think you're sensible to be cautious, yes check he is divorced and definitely prioritise developing some savings of your own. But it doesn't sound like a concern over money is out of character for him, so, assuming he hasn't been lying to you about being divorced, I wouldn't rush to assume he's trying to get out of marrying you.

How important is it to you to be married rather than having a wedding as such?
Would you be open to going to the registry office just the two of you (i.e. very very cheaply) and then having a blessing and celebrating with your families at a later date? I'd suggest that, if you'd be happy with it - or even just as a possibility for discussion to see his reaction (though a negative reaction wouldn't necessarily mean he was trying to avoid marriage, it's just as possible celebrating with family is important to him). Or I'd discuss timelines with him - how long should it take you to save the extra - Based on that when can you start planning (you shouldn't need the money in the bank to start planning, only for when you need to be paying out for the wedding surely). If you can save £1-2k per month you're actually only talking about 6 months to a year before he'd agree to get married, potentially only a few months later than you'd hoped anyway.

For me financial responsibility is an attractive quality, not a reason to break up what sounds to be like a generally good relationship. I'd certainly be wary of letting strangers on the internet convince me that someone is a wrong'un when they possibly just want to be sure that in the event of redundancy/serious illness your family is secure.

I have to wonder, with you being the high earner, why in 7 years do you have no savings of your own?

Are you basically paying for everything?
You paid for the reno
Did you pay for the new car
Child care
groceries
clothing for everyone

explain your rights as a cohabiting couple

That's easy, there are none.

Op, if you can save £1k-£2k pm, tell him that, tell him you'll have the extra £8k in 6m (in your own account), so you can set the wedding in 6m time. See what his response to that is, then you'll know.

Thank you @Osirus, I'm going to do that on Monday.

@VanGoghsDog This is why we set the purchase up specifically as joint tenants; we want to leave our house to each other if one of us passes. I just don't want his exDW to try and stake a claim on it!

Thanks @Jon6b.

@Babybel90 I said exactly all that and he said we have to be financially secure and save a decent amount BEFORE we get married, and that's it.

Yes but in the same token if you die you may end up disinheriting your children and you know what a miserable penny pinching arse he is by how he treats his ds - no holidays ever ffs. I’d first check he deffo wasn’t still married. Then if he still says not to marriage, I’d take he it isn’t that serious about being with you and sever the joint tenancy. If you are unmarried and die intestate, your children will then automatically inherit albeit it will be a big hassle. And at the same time of doing this you would also have to ensure your children were the beneficiaries of your insurance policy taken out against the mortgage. So all in all you do need a will. Quite why you still want to marry this man is a question you really need to be asking yourself.

@GreenTulips I want to marry him because apart from this situation, he's a good man, and we are raising a family together in a committed unit. The financial aspects of it all don't particularly bother me.

I'm wondering if people question why high earning men want to marry women who earn much less who are concerned about money.

Thank you @londonmummy30. Your story is so wonderful, thank you for sharing it. Your DH sounds great, that's exactly what I had hoped mine would do after the visa was resolved.

The bonus was a one-off rather than a guaranteed annual payment, so we can't really rely on him getting it every year to count as salary.

He can be selfish, however he can also be kind, loving and generous. I put it down to the fact that he grew up in a country where it was the norm for children to go to boarding school (which was not expensive), and he left home to board at the age of 6. I think it's set in him a single minded way of doing things, and once he's decided this is the way, then that's it.

@Mummyoflittledragon DP grew up in a part of the world where people didn't really take holidays and still don't really. The burgeoning middle class are starting to take more holidays, but really only to other places in their part of the world. People there spend their money on trying to get themselves ahead in life such as setting up businesses or building houses, and view holidays as frivolous. He doesn't ever go on holiday himself at all until I forced it last year, as he sees holidays as a complete waste of money.

I thought I was compromising on agreeing to the small wedding, as you do in a long-term relationship. I understand he doesn't want a big church wedding, so I said ok. I know he doesn't want to spend loads, so I costed everything up for the registry with a meal afterwards, and it came to £3k.

Imagine if I came to Mumsnet and posted "I want a big church wedding followed by a hotel reception costing £25k for the day, but DP doesn't want it so how can I force him". I'd be roasted on here, and quite rightly too.

He left his first marriage with nothing. They had a flat with very little equity, which his exDW then sold to move in with her parents, and he chose not to fight his exDW for any of it. When I met him he was living in a house share with 3 other men. I think he feels he lost out financially in the divorce, though he doesn't really talk about it.

I think the most obvious thing to do is talk to him!

Explain you love him and want to marry. Explain money is no issue as it would be cheap. Explain how you feel he's making excuses and that if he doesn't want to marry again to tell you. People can change their minds. Just ask him what's going on.

Don't ultimatum him but let him know if there's no marriage you want to move on.

I posted here a while ago about DP's reluctance to marry (both childless and never been married). Mumsnet told me he never would and to leave him. We had a conversation, I explained my feelings, he explained his. I never gave an ultimatum. A few months later he proposed and I'm now over wedding planning it's so boring, so he is now the one going on and on about the wedding and doing all the arrangements.

People are different. Speak to him!

@Mummyoflittledragon For balance I thought I should mention again that DP's exDW has also never taken DSS on holiday, so both parents are in the same position. Would exDW be classed as a joyless prick too?

OP the more you post about this man the less I like him. He really is very different to you culturally in terms of spending etc but it is weird that he is not still culturally attached to marriage 🤔 it seems as if he is keen to adapt to the UK way of life when it suits his pocket but not when it does not.

Do you really want to be in a marriage in 10 years where you pay for every single family holiday or outing because he thinks this is a waste of money??? Oh but he will go and waste your money?

He is financially abusive and by staying with him you are reducing the future nest egg you have available for you and you DC.

1. He doesn't want to marry you
2. You need to check he actually is divorced.

If you budget for a small eg £3k wedding, research it properly and have spreadsheets etc it absolutely is doable. The wanting £20k in the bank before getting married is very arbitrary and makes no sense at all.

He is financially abusive

Not seeing that at all.

The couple are at that tricky stage, setting up home, funding kids' nurseries, he presumably pays some maintenance and left a previous marriage with nothing (quite rightly as the child stayed with the mother) and they are only just able to start saving due to having paid off some loans. A big expense right now would be a worry for a lot of people.

What the op needs to get to the bottom of, is whether this is just a delaying tactic because he doesn't want to (or can't) get married, or is a general financial anxiety which could be resolved by saving the money or looking carefully at the budget.

The only way to work that out is to have a long conversation together.

As an unmarried couple I would probably not have joint savings if I wasn't sure he was divorced. I did have joint savings with my ex, but we had similar salaries and paid equally to all expenses (except he paid for things related to his son and £50pm more into the joint account to cover the extra cost of shopping for food as his son lived with us).

The £20k figure sounds totally random. Which makes me think it's anxiety.