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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I have to leave him for my own dignity, don't i?

346 replies

JazzyJelly · 16/11/2019 18:51

First of all, I'm a bloody idiot. DH and i have been together 13 years, married 7. No kids, although I was hoping we would start trying soon.

When we were 3 years into our relationship he had grown cold, wanted sex less and so on. I discovered this was down to a porn habit, looking specifically at something i consider really revolting (nothing illegal, but nothing like me, and made me question whether he was ever attracted to me in the first place). We had many fights, he lied to me again and again, we broke up and I think he was quite upset - he lost a lot of weight, and I had started some unhealthy behaviour too.

After a few months of him swearing blind he had given it up, would never look at this stuff again, wouldn't hurt me again, we gave it another go. I ask him regularly if he's keeping off it, he always says yes, swears faithfully.

Guess what I found on his work laptop?

I'm such an idiot. We've got a house together, I'm early 30s and was planning kids soon. He's lied to me, probably throughout our relationship.

But I don't want to be single and miss my chance to have kids. I love him. Selling the house would be horrendous. We have a nice life in a lot of ways. I'm such a coward.

My question is, should I leave him for the sake of my own dignity? My head is spinning right now. He's lovely in so many ways, but i feel that due to the lying, I can't trust him. The person I thought had my back through everything has been lying to me for years. The bottom has dropped out of my world.

OP posts:
Longfacenow · 17/11/2019 11:31

I see exactly where you are coming from. This is about a breach of trust, what type of porn is by the by. It means he thinks it is OK to lie to you and this would be a deal breaker after so long.

JazzyJelly · 17/11/2019 11:43

That's exactly it, thank you. I'm just scared because I'm afraid a lot of the time, and this was something I thought I had sorted. The one stable, safe thing in my life. It turns out I have nothing.

OP posts:
Daisy7654 · 17/11/2019 11:43

Please think hard, and have counselling, before you do anything extreme - like selling your house.

He seems lovely.
All men watch porn, he was trying to protect you by not saying he was watching it (like all men do), as you're obviously quite delicate. I mean this kindly.
You don't want to be alone. PP are wrong when they say you'll easily find another man who understands and cares and doesn’t watch porn.

Longfacenow · 17/11/2019 11:48

It isn't about the porn it's about lying to her about something they had discussed!

It is violating agreements of trust, like agreeing not to get another car/go see someone he said he wouldn't and doing it anyway in secret. Every few days.

You don't have nothing. You have you. And you can start over. With someone who doesn't lie.

JazzyJelly · 17/11/2019 11:50

He wasn't trying to protect me, he was risking our relationship and hurting me deeply. If he'd been protecting me, he would have avoided the porn, or at least not lied about it repeatedly. I can't trust him. I'm so disgusted by him i can't stand the thought of touching him. Is that really an acceptable standard of living?

OP posts:
Longfacenow · 17/11/2019 11:52

Of course not. Some people on here are just so scared of being alone they put up with liars.

Letseatgrandma · 17/11/2019 11:56

If OP won't say what the porn is and has ruled out genuinely kinky and violent porn, then how can we say if the DH is being unreasonable or if the OP is? It sounds to me as if he likes a particular type of woman (maybe blonde with big boobs) and the OP is of a different body type, and this is her issue.

I’m inclined to agree.

What if the OP’s DH likes blow jobs, but she doesn’t like doing them and it upsets her on a visceral level? What if he likes to watch blow job porn as he accepts OP doesn’t like doing them and never will and obviously won’t ask her to do it as he knows how she feels about it.

Is he supposed to not have blow jobs and also never watch porn involving them because the OP doesn’t like blow jobs or porn. I’d say that wasn’t him being unreasonable but her putting him in an impossible position.

JazzyJelly · 17/11/2019 11:57

That's the thing, I am scared of being alone. Terrified. But i read so many awful things on here about abusive husbands, cheating husbands (although ofc i can't ever be certain that mine isn't in this category) that i wonder if it's worth it going alone and trying to find someone better, or if i should just resign myself to knowing he's a lying twat who is willing to throw away his relationship over his fetish. He does his fair share of the housework. I think he'd be a good dad.

I think this being my only relationship hasn't helped, I'm really struggling with perspective here.

Maybe i could have kids with him then leave? It would make me less worried about my ticking biological clock and as I said, i really do think he'd be a good dad.

OP posts:
BiasBinding · 17/11/2019 12:00

FFS.

He doesn't 'seem lovely' and not all men watch porn.

And all those people avidly badgering OP about 'what kind of porn is it???' Just STOP.

Shinypatina · 17/11/2019 12:09

Agree - it is the lying aspect my dh has just gone out this morning (told me where he was going and why) but I don't trust that he is telling the truth (I discovered recently that my dh had secretly been watching porn too - more the page 3 stuff). To me this is the biggest thing - I don't trust him anymore (hopefully this will rebuild) and this is so essential. Telling lies, shatters people - I am currently feeling shattered and can't face being in the same room as him at the moment, let alone anything else.

Letseatgrandma · 17/11/2019 12:09

Maybe i could have kids with him then leave?

That sounds like a really foolish plan.

Shinypatina · 17/11/2019 12:11

Agree with Lets. Things get way more complicated when there are dcs involved particularly if you are not financially independent. It is far more emotive.

MsMellivora · 17/11/2019 12:14

If you want to break up over the lying that’s a solid reason.

The you feel safe with him comment is very telling as a fellow abuse survivor myself I understand this. I have actually worked in a voluntary capacity with women who have suffered DV. Unfortunately and people may jump on this and take it the wrong way because it sounds victim blaming. But abusers seek out women who will endure abuse, they absolutely target them. They push boundaries, a little at first and anyone with healthy boundaries will dump immediately. So I do understand why you worry about feeling safe. I met a lovely man in my late twenties and we have been together coming up to to 23 years. If I end up single I will probably never date again because I don’t want to risk it so I do fully understand your very real fears.

Every break up is hard but my heart really does feel for you. Please take a long break before dating and make sure your boundaries are rock solid.

JazzyJelly · 17/11/2019 12:15

I feel the same way shiny. I can't stand being around him. Thankfully I'm away for work all week after tonight.

I haven't told him i know yet, so he knows something is very wrong, but not the specifics. I'm not sure whether to tell him or not.

OP posts:
Helmetbymidnight · 17/11/2019 12:20

He doesn't 'seem lovely' and not all men watch porn.
And all those people avidly badgering OP about 'what kind of porn is it???' Just STOP.

absolutely.

god i miss the days when mn was full of wise women. how did people get this stupid?

op: he went cold, didnt want sex, knocks one out to porn every day, lies to me.

mn thickos: he sounds gorgeous! you wont meet anyone better than that - all men prefer porn to sex.

no mate, just because your bar is set so low doesnt mean everyones is.

JazzyJelly · 17/11/2019 12:21

That's a big part of it Ms Mellivora. I'm not good with men at the best of times, I'm quite afraid of unknown men, so losing one who understands my issues and is gentle would be really hard. I totally get the impulse to never have another relationship. But i really want kids, and don't really want to do it alone.

OP posts:
alexafindfilms · 17/11/2019 12:30

Please don't suggest he's lying to me for my own benefit. He's not a child, he chooses his own actions

i used to self harm when i was younger, and the breakup drove me back. I haven't done since, but he knew that I was pushed into it by his behaviour then, and was willing to risk it again.

bit of a side note but why does is he deemed an adult who chooses his own actions but you see yourself as being pushed into self harming by his behaviour? You also chose to do this. Lying is never ever acceptable so I am not defending him, but you chose to act this way. Just like you are choosing to stay now and potentially be lied to again.

(For the record I have an eating disorder which is, currently, under control, however I understand I choose to control food and how much I consume. Other peoples comments and actions can be triggers for me but they in no way push me into anything as im an adult with a choice)

JazzyJelly · 17/11/2019 12:33

Ok, yes, i agree self harm is a choice too. I'm not defending myself, just hurt that he knew this behaviour triggered it before, and was willing to risk that again.

OP posts:
Nanny0gg · 17/11/2019 12:44

If OP won't say what the porn is and has ruled out genuinely kinky and violent porn, then how can we say if the DH is being unreasonable or if the OP is?

Why does everyone need to know what type of porn it is? It's like being in a forum of voyeurs.

If she told us there'd be a line of posters telling her she's ridiculous and it's vanilla and everyone watches it.

But that doesn't matter. She doesn't like it. He lied and that's the situation to be dealt with.

OP, it would be a dealbreaker for me.

MiniTheMinx · 17/11/2019 12:55

I have very strong opinions on porn. And I've been in your position.

Some 16 years later I have a lovely home and 2 fantastic DS, a gorgeous faithful, honest and non porn watching (I believe) DH.

I was 29. A few weeks after having DS1 I found my ex was leaving porn in the video for the lady we rented a room to, to find. I realised I didn't care. Not about him or about what he was doing. We had discussed his porn habit before DS was born. Years of lies followed.

What I do know is that he worked hard, pulled his weight, paid the bills, supported me to be a SAHM and he was devastated when I eventually asked him to leave.

I don't believe I wasted 16 years. I have 2 fantastic boys. It may well have been guilt which led him to basically give way on almost every single issue so I could pretty much do as I pleased. I'm pragmatic though.

I often read here "you should have got married" to protect you legally. You are married. If you choose to have children and stay put for a few years you'll more than likely be fine. As you yourself say there is no guarantee you'll meet someone better or get to have children.

I'd put having financial stability and having children first. Time does not stand still. It's quite easy to later find someone, it's not contingent upon age, having children is.

Also as far as I am aware my ex never lied about anything else.

You must do what is right for you. You seem a very sensitive person, you seem overwhelmed on an emotional level by this. Counseling might help you. Whilst not all men watch porn, I suspect most have viewed it, but of those who do regularly watch it a very small percentage will stop doing so, irrespective of what their partner feels. I believe that many men are driven by a cycle of giving in to it and shame. Most would hide their search history. Most are conditioned to feel shame, so it's part of the appeal. Whatever you decide, begging or demanding and issuing ultimatums should be avoided because it just feeds in to the illicit appeal and shame that perpetuates the desire to watch it and hide it.

Whatever decision you make you may need to make peace with the fact he will continue to watch it, and continue to hide it.

Anniegetyourgun · 17/11/2019 13:17

Thank goodness a few people have said it. It is no-one else's business what kind of porn it is. Posters are less likely, not more, to give helpful advice if they know what it is because they will be distracted by whether they, personally, find it disgusting, aren't bothered, or even watch it themselves. OP has explained that it is not simply a matter of him liking a different body shape or hair colour, but something far less mainstream; and has hinted that it involves a trigger from abuse in her earlier life, which surely we should all try to respect. In other words, she has her reasons which we may or may not agree with, but in any case is not asking whether she's unreasonable not to like it. Reason doesn't have to come into it. It makes her feel bad, and her husband knows it does. Now let's go forward from there. (To be fair, most posters have.)

Enough, also, with likening it to a hobby like golf. It isn't golf. I might just as well liken it to having a wee harmless habit like serial killing, or hanging kittens. It isn't any of those things. It is what it is, and because of what it is it upsets OP. Can't/won't give it up, so he lies about it. My 2c worth would be, if wanting to stay together, insist on some good quality couple counselling, because it appears it isn't only the woman in this partnership who has some buried issues.

JazzyJelly · 17/11/2019 13:21

Thank you anniegetyourgun. It has been quite frustrating having rubber kneckers asking what kind of porn it is, when the massive issue is the lying.

I am wondering about couples counselling. He's always going to have this fetish, i accept that (although it grosses me out, probably partly because I associate it with the hurt and lying). But I'm not sure if that's just me being a coward and trying to avoid the terrifying unknown, and of course wasting my fertile years.

OP posts:
shouldhavecalleditoatabix · 17/11/2019 13:36

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

lookatthebabypenguin · 17/11/2019 13:36

You are not damaged goods. Please don't talk about yourself that way. It's not true.

I feel really sad for you. How much you're hurting, how difficult your trauma is making all this. If you were a friend of mine I wouldn't want you to feel embarrassed, I would just want to be there for you. Do you have any friends close to you who understand trauma and how it affects you?

I get the impression reading through your posts that lots of your fears and feelings about potentially ending this relationship are shaped a lot by your trauma. Which is entirely understandable and does not mean they are wrong, but recognising where they come from might help how you manage them. Even if it's just to tell yourself "it's understandable this is upsetting for me" and being compassionate that way.

I think those of us with trauma, especially interpersonal and childhood trauma, feel that need for safety in relationships even more intensely than untraumatised people. We know how precious and fragile it can be, and it wasn't there in our lives when it should have been and when we needed it. There's an acute pain when it's threatened.

So I get why you would be frightened that you might never find the safety you once had in this relationship with anyone else and why that fear might be utterly paralysing for you.

It is okay for that to be important to you. It is okay that you feel afraid.

But there will be other people with whom you can build safe relationships. There are other people who understand trauma or can learn to understand trauma. There are other people who will be and can be patient and caring towards you. You are worth other people's patience and kindness.

Your trauma and how it affects you is not some shameful flaw or failing on your part. It's not a weakness or shameful secret you need to conceal. It's just a difficult thing you have to deal with, but that you are continuing to manage and learning how to manage. It is not something you need to hide or apologise for or try to compensate people for "putting up with".

Really, it's no different to if you had a hearing impairment or chronic physical illness or mobility issue. Some people you built friendships and relationships with would already have experience and knowledge of how things needed to be tweaked for you, and some people would learn as they got to know you. But good people all would.

Anybody worth having in your life and close to you would be willing to learn and willing to adapt to your needs without any resentment or throwing it back in your face. I mean, if your partner had a hearing impairment and that meant you had to learn to be more thoughtful about not covering your mouth when you spoke to them, you just would, right? It's the same.

It's scary to start with, but decent people are accepting of a brief explanation of "due to difficult past experiences, I find xyz difficult, so ... I might need to take myself outside for a few minutes sometimes / would you please do abc instead of def / people doing x frightens me" etc.

A first relationship ending is difficult and distressing for anybody. Even more so for you because of your past and this being your first experience of safety in a relationship. Please don't beat yourself up for feeling that way. Grieving that loss is natural and important for you to be able to move forward (even though it hurts like hell right now - it will pass).

One way to look at it that may help is to bear in mind that this shows safe relationships are possible. Ending the relationship doesn't erase those experiences of feeling safe and cared for - they stay with you and you can reconnect with them if you want to regardless of his physical presence in your life. They've also taught you they're worth having and important to you - that's a big thing. You could have ended up not knowing what they were like and not realising a life without abuse was even possible or worth having.

Now you've experienced safety you will recognise it again. You know it's worth having. You'll be able to recognise the positive experiences you've had when you find them again and that will help you when you're building new relationships, whether friends or intimate partners.

And you will have learnt and grown from these experiences.

There is no need to launch into new relationships immediately, but I wonder if doing the Freedom Programme course would help you feel more confident and hopeful about your ability to protect yourself from abusive people in future. Because I do get why you would be apprehensive about that. It feels like a huge risk, right?

The Freedom Programme course covers the dynamics of abusive relationships (so not just a checklist of examples of abuse, but the motivations, intentions and beliefs that drive it) and contrasts them with healthy relationships so you can build your baseline of what you expect and what is reasonable. It also covers early warning signs and how to spot the difference between control and care.

You can read more here - www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

It's not therapy, just info, so you wouldn't have to share or talk about your life. You could just listen, maybe ask questions, and then take the information away.

It made me feel less despairing about the future and that it could be safe to get close to people again. Before I felt powerless and like I had no way to filter out or protect myself from inadvertently ending up in another abuser's web, but afterwards I realised that wasn't true and I did have the tools to make sure the people in my life were safe and to be able to trust my instincts about where my boundaries were and what it was reasonable to object to.

Sorry this is so epic, I just wanted you to know you're not alone and share some of the things that have helped me find hope again. Flowers

lookatthebabypenguin · 17/11/2019 13:41

P.s. You don't have to be in an abusive relationship to go on the Freedom Programme. And I'm not suggesting your partner is abusing you, I was just picking up on your comments about the risk of ending up with an abusive man in future if you left this relationship, and offering something that might help those worries.

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