How can I be less of a doormat and more of a nice diva??

[Hresdyu]

I have been doing a lot of self reflection lately and I think that my trouble with men is because I’m far too accommodating and can be a bit of a doormat. This obviously becomes unattractive and ultimately the relationship breaks down or doesn’t go anywhere. I really want to stop this pattern but I don’t know how to.

Basically I’m a nice person so I go out of my way to be kind to others and understand things from their point of view. When this happens in relationships I think it comes across as unattractive.

I have a few acquaintances who treat other people in a way that I would hate. For example, one particular person (A) is married but puts her husband down in front of other people. She’s mean to him and is the kind of person who’s rude in restaurants but her husband adores her. He just laps it all up.

The problem is that I actually really like who I am. I like that I’m a nice, considerate person, but I am so fed up of repeating this pattern with men.

I’m in my early 40s now. How can I stop this from happening? How can I be less of a doormat and more of a nice diva??

Finding you physically attractive doesn’t mean he wants to date you! You’re looking for a boyfriend.

He may really like you, enjoy your company v much, fancy you, and not want what you want. As you already know him as a friend, seek to establish whether he’s offering what you want, and reduce contact if he isn’t.

Make sure you have a varied, well-rounded life that is thriving independently of whether you have a man or not. (E.g. commitment ot going to gym, training or exercise classes a few times a week; a nightout with friends or family, a hobby you enjoy) Don't drop these for a man. Keep on enjoying your own life on your own terms and then add a man into it. That way you can be as lovely to him as you want but maintain standards of self-care and independence.
I do this already but I don’t think it’s enough.

He may really like you, enjoy your company v much, fancy you, and not want what you want.
I guess you’re right but if you really like and really fancy someone, why wouldn’t you want a relationship with that person?

All kinds of reasons. Eg some people want to work long hours, have caring responsibilities, want to see friends or do hobbies or study in free time, to be available to date someone they like more, or to date multiple people!

Or just not want to spend attention/time/energy/money on a relationship at a given time or with a particular person.

Hi OP, I am (or was) very similar to you. Like you, I had a kind of childhood where my needs weren't listened to (had a very needy parent) and as a result I learned to ignore my needs and in time (probably) not even recognise them.

I was/am a chronic people pleaser. Prided myself on being "nice". Had lots of compliments about how easy going and unflappable I was.

But often felt aggrieved that people were taking advantage of me, or not taking account of my feelings.

Some horrible boundary stuff with partners and a realisation about my childhood led me to counselling.

Like others on the thread I read Why Men Like Bitches. But also The Nice Girl Syndrome by Beverly Engel. (read it!). It isn't good to be "nice"!

Anyway, I have recognised that I did need to be more assertive, that I did need to work on even recognising my needs/boundaries, before I could assert them. I've had counselling which has helped that. I do agree you are being too easygoing and nice with partners. And the WMLB book is right that they will respect you more if you do stand up for yourself.

As a male poster upthread said, it can also be annoying if their partner never expresses any thoughts on which takeaway to get, or film to see.

I am much better now. I am not always "nice" although I do think it's important to be kind always.

I guess you’re right but if you really like and really fancy someone, why wouldn’t you want a relationship with that person?

Because their underlying values dont align with yours... the more you write here, the more worried I am for you! You need a lot of education on how adult relationships work. Therapy is a great idea.

Long term relationships arent just "shes pretty and nice and fun". It's easy to find pretty, nice women, or handsome, nice men...

When an emotionally healthy person is looking for a LTR, they're looking for someone who shares their values, who they can rely on when things are tough, a partner and peer. Just being agreeable isnt enough, not even nearly.

Thing is though when it comes to values, that is, the moral underpinnings of ones life, the things you would die for or defend at the expense of everything else - if someone has no boundaries, is a habitual yes-man and "I dont mind" sort of person - that means they have no values. They stand for nothing. They look to other people for cues on how to behave and what to value... they change with the wind and stand for nothing.

And that is deeply, deeply unattractive to anyone who isnt an abuser/manipulator.

People who are pretty and nice and agreeable and never say no... they have nothing substantial to offer and cannot keep anyone's interest. They have no depth. Theres no "there" there. No emotionally healthy person can manage to stay attracted to that.

You keep saying you dont want to play games... here is an insight for you, you're actually a HUGE game player yourself. It's just that you're so well trained in the game by your mother, that you have no idea it's a game. Pretending you have no needs or negative feelings IS game playing in itself... the only reason you experience it as truthful is because you have completely swallowed your feelings in order to make your game bearable.

No emotionally healthy person can partner long term with someone who deceives and betrays themselves.

I understand this very well. I thought that if I devoted myself to accommodating other people I would be loved, because what could be better than that? When I did look at myself in therapy I found there wasn’t much there, I had no idea of who I really was. My intrinsic self was deeply hidden behind all my adaptive behaviour and huge defence mechanisms.
All learnt when I was a a child/teenager to try and overcome my deep fear of getting things wrong and navigating a world without much sense.

I’m trying very hard to make some progress with this, and the main thing is experiencing my feelings properly instead of pushing them away.

OP despite you saying you have healthy self esteem, I don't actually think you do. I think you approve of yourself in a "standing back and admiring a job well done" kind of a way, as in "See mum? I'm a considerate, kind and successful person despite your lack of approval." But deep down you feel like you have to proactively work in order to keep hold of the people who are most emotionally significant to you (i.e your partners and your mum) rather than just be yourself like you are with your friends. But in proactively putting your needs second more than is healthy you are turning your fears into a self fulfilling prophecy because acting like a doormat is not an attractive quality.

I have another question. How do you deal with it when a boyfriend or potential boyfriend does something wrong and apologises? My default response is always “Oh, that’s okay” but I’m guessing that it shouldn’t be?

For example, this friend will get in touch about meeting up. He will say, I’m really sorry I haven’t got back to you before now because of XYZ. What do I say?

Can I turn that back on you? What do you really feel if someone’s let you down? Do you feel that you don’t matter enough? That if you said ‘actually I don’t feel you’re treating me very well’ they’d just say ‘ok, bye then’?

well I guess that Nice You will say - that's fine don't worry, let's meet on ....

But you shouldn't say that. You should make it clear that It Doesn't Work For You to be kept waiting like that. That you need more notice about meeting up, and that you need a response if you do suggest dates.

"No worries" and then put them on the back burner until their behavior changes. They have to then work to regain my trust enough that I'd put time aside for them again. In practice this would mean I'd fill my time with other stuff because I have learned through their behaviour that I shouldn't trust them with my time. So I'd not invite them anywhere, and if they invited me, I'd be non committal until the last minute, and if they ever stood me up again etc, I'd probably just stop responding to texts because why bother.

Note that none of this is "game playing". Its me learning from their actions and adjusting my response to them accordingly.

Can I turn that back on you? What do you really feel if someone’s let you down?
I don’t feel anything I don’t think. I’m not sure. I guess I suppress it so much.

Do you feel that you don’t matter enough? That if you said ‘actually I don’t feel you’re treating me very well’ they’d just say ‘ok, bye then’?
I think that I do matter but I think if I said that to Mr X he would say bye. I pulled him up on the fact that I tend to contact him more than he contacts me and he said something like I would need to adjust my expectations and he seemed very irritated. Although he did call me that night for 90 minutes so maybe he took it on board.

You should make it clear that It Doesn't Work For You to be kept waiting like that. That you need more notice about meeting up, and that you need a response if you do suggest dates.
How do I actually word that without driving him away?

How do I actually word that without driving him away

....he needs to be driven away if he disrespects your time and feelings...

Your response to this kind of treatment is SUPPOSED to drive away men who are uncaring and half arsed. That's literally the point of having boundaries.

Just to show that I’m not completely useless with men, I had two nice experiences at work yesterday.

1. A young colleague who is extraordinarily good looking came over to talk to me and blushed when he started speaking to me. He found a couple of excuses to chat to me again later.
2. Another male colleague, more senior than me, got all tongue tied when speaking to me and couldn’t get his words out. He was basically trying to tell me that I looked nice but got all awkward in a sweet way.

I definitely don’t fancy number 2. Number 1 I should fancy but he’s so much younger than me and so perfect looking.

Hresdyu
You could be my identical twin! I have the precise same issues with men, but not friends, similar parent problems and have the same blindness to my feelings and a lack of anger.
I obviously have no helpful advice for you but can't tell you how helpful reading the replies has been to me as well.

With the current guy, he was a friend and is now a potential BF. If waiting ages to respond / not fixing a date / not initiating contact v much would assume he’s not interested and avoid him.

Dating someone from work would be a bad plan.

I'm also the same! Natural boundaries with friends; boyfriend pleaser otherwise with inbuilt drive to try to keep the relationship going at all costs. Autistic parent and older sibling, other parent and I had to always fit in around them and look after their emotions rather than our own....

I swear to god my (now) DH fell for me when I told him that I wasn’t interested in meeting up with him on a Saturday because I’d just done a bike race and just didn’t fancy it. Treat him mean, keep him keen.

Your problem isn’t men liking or fancying you it’s screening out the ones who don’t want a relationship with you of the kind that you want.

pamplemousse I’m glad I’m not alone! Perhaps we should PM each other for moral support!! 😁

So a bit of an update. Mr X called me tonight. We chatted for nearly an hour. He made me laugh loads. I thought he wasn’t going to mention the dates that I sent him and I certainly wasn’t going to but right at the very end, just as we were saying goodbye to each other he dropped it in that he’d looked at his diary and Z date would work. We had had such a lovely chat and had bonded nicely over some really personal and intimate subjects that I said yes. It felt totally like the right thing to do. He was nice and respectful on the phone.