My adult son lied to me. Now what?

[tumblelord]

Following on from my previous thread. I recently found out that my 38 year old son has been lying to me for years. He has a DS5 and DD2 and has been going through court to see them. He said that he hadn't been allowed to have contact with the children because his ex had made up lies about him. It seems that they weren't lies.

He was aggressive and threatening to his ex when she was pregnant. He isn't allowed to see DGD because she's seen as vulnerable due to her age. He is now allowed contact with DGS but DGS refuses to go with him. He smashed up a contact centre, made malicious reports to social services and spend hours parked near his ex's house to intimidate her.

He has been living with me since his relationship ended but I can't face being in the house with him at the moment. I only found out on Saturday when I was cleaning his room and found a court bundle. I can't kick him out because he only earns a small amount and doesn't have the income or paperwork to rent somewhere. I don't know what to do. I have no relationship with my grandchildren because I love and trusted my son. I feel such a fool.

I agree. But is this a small step? Maybe she’s scared of the poster?

It's good that you're drying to make amends with his ex but as you said;
'It's hard to prioritise people that you don't know over your son'
It concerns me that you're going to try and get contact with your grandchildren to your son to see them because you'll continue to prioritise him over them.

He is a scumbag. He abused his own tiny child.

Some of the comments on this thread are like the news reports that come out after a man had killed his family stating how it wasn't his fault for some nonsense reason.

I found the twitter account @countdeadwomen really opened my eyes about domestic abuse (it documents every woman in the UK who is killed my a man or was thought to be killed by one).

Jeeze. The spite in this thread is awful. It seems as though posters are deflecting their anger at the son, into the OP.

Whatever mistakes she might have made in the past, OP IS taking some action. It might not be strong enough for many of you, but sending the cheque and giving her son notice is more than a little, when she's only just had the scales fall from her eyes.

A bit of encouragement is now likely to get her to ramp it up a little, whereas the ire that she's getting is not going to help at all.

If you throw him out now and refuse to have him back he can present himself as homeless to the council in the morning, they should be able to find him a hostel/emergency accommodation.

3 months more enabling - this doesn’t have anything to do with OP wanting to have a nice family Xmas is it ?

What more can you do

The spite in this thread is awful
The spite on this thread is because this man assaulted his partner and child and continued to be abusive during supervised contact and then smashed up a contact centre. Yet the OP wants to help him.

This is why women don't speak up. His ex did speak up to the OP but she didn't believe her. It's brushed under the carpet because the men are 'misunderstood' or she must have provoked him.

I just wonder how serious does a grown man have to hurt a small child for people to think of them as scum and not be bailed out by mummy and daddy?

Unless he's a 'vulnerable adult', which he clearly isn't, the local council/housing authority are not obliged to help him.

I don't understand why you intend to give him 3 month's notice when 3 days would be more than sufficient.

All I can see is that you are intent on continuing to enable him and, if he's not required to leave your home until sometime next February, no doubt you'll be making sure he has a wonderful Christmas and a spiffing New Year's Eve while his ex and his children may be going without because your abusive son has deliberately chosen to work cash in hand, thus giving him ample opportunity to lie about how much he earns in order to avoid paying maintenance.

They say there's none so blind as those who will not see, and if you can't see how reprehensible your son truly is it''s because you're simply not willing to accept that he has any faults whatsoever.

Yes we are spiteful & should be more understanding - he has “anger management” issues everyone! Some compassion, kindness & everything that is womanly & lovely should be bestowed upon this poor, wee lad

What has he said about defrauding his children of their maintainance, what has he said about lying to you about the abuse?

I think if he came clean to me about all the above and had a plan about how to put it all 'better' then yes I'd be looking at a few months to get his straight. But if he was being an arse about it all then I'd be helping him pack!

If I received a cheque from my abusive ex's family I'd be ripping it up along with the letter and sending it back to you.

Then I would run further for the hills.

You've seen the evidence, you've found out the truth yet you're giving your son three months to live with you knowing what he's done.

I wouldn't want any involvement with you.

A bit of encouragement is now likely to get her to ramp it up a little, whereas the ire that she's getting is not going to help at all

I'm not sure, saraclara; I've known a mum like this and gentle comments were perceived as kindness and understanding, which "proved" how right she was to be the same with her brutish son

On MN everyone has to be supportive of absolutely everything on pain of getting banned, so there's only so much we can say. FWIW, though, "my" mum only saw the light after a lone abuse worker took her aside for a talk ... and he certainly wasn't understanding at all

While the truth can be painful, that doesn't always mean it should remain unspoken

being spiteful isn't going to help the OP one bit. More likely to alienate her. All that happens is people feel self-righteous. Nice for them, fuck-all use as a plan of action for the OP.

OP agreed that a written period of notice is best; one copy for him and one for yourselves.

What everyone said, about him being an abusive , lying pos.
He should be given a week's notice, in writing, (to help him with various official bodies)
No more than that.
I've lived in a household with my mum, step dad and various step, and full siblings, we all got on well but one step b forget was a nasty pos to everyone. He caused so much havoc and grief, to All of us, to his mum and her new DH and their children, mum and me as well as his other siblings, and yes it's hard to call the police, give them notice, make them own their own behaviour but my God it's neccessary.

He ended up in jail for a violent assault on his partner when she was pregnant with his child, after months of stalking and abuse after she escaped from him.

@tumblelord
Well done. Posters are being a bit harsh at this point.

You and your DH united and took a stand against abuse.
3 months seems fine and it is doubtful he'll stick around that long when he knows his free ride is over.

The letter and the cheque is a kind gesture. Of course you have no idea how it will be received but the important thing is the effort.
A sincere, I'm sorry for not believing you. I was wrong. I believe you, can go a long way to an abuse victim.

So she may very well tear both up and that is her right to do. Nobody knows. Then just let her be. That's all you can do. She may eventually contact your or she may never. You and your DH did your best to make amends which is astonishingly rare these days.

I think people have to do what sits right with them. He's 38, living at home. Obviously his parents still feel responsible for him. So three months is the time frame they think is acceptable. They are still being supportive but also taking a stance.

@prawnsword I have no compassion for the son AT ALL and I have no idea where you got that from my post.
I do however, have some compassion for the woman who had just found out exactly what a violent liar her son she loves is, and is trying to come to terms with that.
And it goes without saying that I have great compassion for the woman he abused and echo wasn't believed.

I just think that the anger and refusal to accept that OP is taking steps, is counter productive and unnecessary. She could be persuaded to do more, but it won't happen by yelling at her and blaming her for everything.
Frankly, some of the posts have been abusive themselves.

Echo= who

@saraclara she has not just found out though. The DIL told her, she didn’t believe her. This isn’t a shock.

Of course it is a shock. And all the more so because she DID believe him. To see it in black and white when she trusted him would have been horrific.

Isn't it natural to want to believe the person you love? Most people here are mothers and have children that they love unconditionally. Yet somehow they're finding it hard to understand how the OP reacted as she did.

Sure but it’s not like she didn’t know there was a whole “he said she said” situation and that his visitation at a contact centre has recently been revoked. So it’s not completely out of the blue. She cleaned his room, found papers & snooped so she likely has her suspicions.

I'd disown my son if he ever did that to a human being. Disgusting. He wouldn't be spending another second in my house.

How many more chances to change though?
He could have done this over 2 years ago when he raised his hand.
When he moved back home.
When his youngest was born.
The first court case
The first supervised visit
The day he first considered cooking his books to deny his children
When he smashed up the contact centre.
When the ex told the op and asked him.
Back in September.

And even though changes are being suggested. Until he wants to change, no amount of help will do a thing.

When he treated them so bad the other night. He should have been grovelling and doing everything he could to fix that alone considering all the support they have given him over those 2 years, and especially how loyal she has been to him. Take away the violent side, he’s still not a nice person. Would anyone want to share their home with someone who has little if any respect for them?
If you would, could you also continue to reward him so easily?

These are the chances we know about.

As well as his children and their mom. I feel sorry for the ops dh.
For so long he has been kept in the dark by his wife and son. He should be the one to be shocked. To be living with all this behind his back.

We don’t enable addicts. We can plead and beg them to get help. We can make threats. Nothing will happen until the addict wants to it happen. At times we have to turn our backs on them because the pain is maybe a bit less. But we cannot stand and watch them slowly destroy themselves and those around. There comes a time we have to let them go, even for our own sanity. And it is true that sometimes you have to hit rock bottom to find the desire to want that change.

I know the op hasn’t said he’s an addict. I am using it for a reason.

Some see that giving him tough love will be worse for him.
It can only be worse for him if he chooses to do nothing.

I am not saying disown him. Just until he has changed, don’t give him your support and attention. At the moment he is getting the approval of his parents. Isn’t that what we want from our parents, their approval. Why should he want to change when there is no reason?

The only support the op needs is taking off her rose tinted specs when it comes to her son.

I am dealing with this. It has been very hard to process though because nobody wants to think badly of their own child. I honestly have never seen that side of him in his life.

Sure but they don’t blindly believe everything they say either. Parents must think critically & not allow their children to manipulate them. Because you think the son has shone out of his arse doesn’t make it so. Real people are flawed. The way you describe him is like butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. I find it very hard to believe that someone who is a loose enough cannon to smash up a contact centre has never shown any signs of ugly behaviour. I think you have deliberately turned a blind eye to see what you want to see.

People may say I am harsh, but many here have dealt with MIL’s who have an unhealthy dynamic with their sons. Am afraid you do as well, as he has played you like a fiddle so long. You don’t seem to have a grasp on who your son really is as a person.

Of course we don’t want to think badly of our family members, but that doesn’t excuse wilful ignorance, poor parenting & failure to cut the apron strings.

You sound like a very permissive parent. If you always believed him to a fault, even when presented with clear evidence to the contrary am not sure what can be done for you. I highly doubt in 3 months you will actually kick him out.

It is women like you who excuse abusers & breed them unfortunately, teaching kids everything they do is wonderful & freedom of consequences is not a great life lesson or positive parenting.