My adult son lied to me. Now what?

[tumblelord]

Following on from my previous thread. I recently found out that my 38 year old son has been lying to me for years. He has a DS5 and DD2 and has been going through court to see them. He said that he hadn't been allowed to have contact with the children because his ex had made up lies about him. It seems that they weren't lies.

He was aggressive and threatening to his ex when she was pregnant. He isn't allowed to see DGD because she's seen as vulnerable due to her age. He is now allowed contact with DGS but DGS refuses to go with him. He smashed up a contact centre, made malicious reports to social services and spend hours parked near his ex's house to intimidate her.

He has been living with me since his relationship ended but I can't face being in the house with him at the moment. I only found out on Saturday when I was cleaning his room and found a court bundle. I can't kick him out because he only earns a small amount and doesn't have the income or paperwork to rent somewhere. I don't know what to do. I have no relationship with my grandchildren because I love and trusted my son. I feel such a fool.

I know, I am thinking for the contact centre alone he is lucky he has gotten this far. He should have been arrested for that alone. And that's before he'd laid a hand on his child.

He sounds dangerous. He is somehow talking his way out of everything, including getting charged even with a bloody caution would have been better than what he got.

He's cruel and denying his children, who he loves and cares for, apparently, a bit more financial stability.

Why would anyone want to support that?
Honestly, I would disown him. (I have had my child arrested in the past, for those who question how do I know). I raised him better than that. I wouldn't feel safe around him. I never thought my son would raise a hand to me. Until the day he did.

"She tried to talk to me a long time ago but I didn't believe her. When I tried to talk to her again she said she'd talk to me as long as I answered "Why do you enable this behaviour?" and I didn't have an answer"

This is what op said on the other thread. So let's not all pretend that op is a victim who has had a shock. She has been told.
What she is starting to realise is that no one else thinks he is as great as she does.

She also make it very clear that her relationship with her son take priority over one with her grandchildren.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/3692940-Im-ashamed-of-my-adult-DS

For those scrolling through and missing the link to the ops other thread before posting.

He won't necessarily need a long history of payslips etc. if he is resourceful and uses a roommate finding service rather than looking for an apartment on his own. I am sure he has been able to save up a considerable amount of money for first and last month's rent as he has been living free of charge from you. Otherwise, it would be money well-spent to give it to him.

I don’t see how I can help otherwise

Your son isn’t a child. You can help by changing your mindset. Thinking this way makes you believe you have a responsibility to clear up his mess. It is also preventing you and your husband from taking appropriate action.

The best way to help him is to force him to act like an adult. As others have said he will have been offered help and is refusing to do so. Don’t research courses or try to force him to attend one.

Simply you need to ask him to leave. Yes he needs payslips to rent somewhere but he can become a lodger or sofa surf with his mates. It sounds as if he’s popular.

It also sounds as if he’s addicted to the power and control he wields over everyone around him - I include the two of you as well. Rather like drug addicts, he’s not going to act until forced.

I'm not sure why PPs have said what a "shock" this must be to OP, when it's very clear she's was told of the circumstances before but chose not to believe her DIL

Not sure either about all the suggestions to help the DIL and GC. Certainly it would be the right thing to do, but what chance is there of that when there's no longer any contact with them, when DIL may (rightly) refuse contact and when OP's said the priority is the son?

Again, this person isn't some hapless teenager; he's 38 and his personality will already be pretty well fixed. If there's any pity to be had, why not save it for the next woman he tries to do this to?

"I have always defended my son because I always believed him. "

Your job was ALWAYS to teach him the right path. Instead you taught him that he could manipulate bully and lie in order to get his own way, and that consequences never happen.

They are still not happening, because you are still enabling him to abuse his family.

Why is this just another disappointment for his father?

It is not OP's fault that her adult son is abusive and behaves like a piece of shit.

She can be criticized for being in denial, avoiding the tax man and making it easy for him to harass his ex by housing him.

OP He's 38 years old! Kick him out and send your ex DIL a massive letter of apology for being so blind. Maybe a part of you knew not to ask for details sooner. If you want to feel sorry for someone, direct those feelings to exDIL.

His lifestyle is continuing to be abusive to his children by his lack of a proper job.
I'd say if you were happy to have him stay for a while then he needs a salaried job.
If you've had enough then send him in his way. He needs to grow up.

OP - I sympathise with you having realised how badly your son has behaved and it is difficult that other posters are blaming you despite him being an adult.

I do think you and your husband need to tell him to go ASAP. He could still be with you for years if you insist he gets a proper job first. He could then just say there's no work/can't get interviews etc. Unemployed people have homes, there's housing benefit, lodgers often don't need payslips.
I understand why your son is your primary relationship as he's always been close to you but he is an adult, as well as being in the wrong. Your grandchildren are small and vulnerable so they should be the first responsibility. You may not know them well enough to have a bond but objectively everyone should have a duty of care towards a child ahead of an adult.

I think an element of this is that I never really got to spend a massive amount of time with the eldest and have never met the youngest. It's hard to prioritise people that you don't know over your son. We're going to speak to him tonight. DH thinks we should contact ex afterwards and tell her what we know but I think that bridge is probably burnt now.

Even if the bridge is burnt, I think your DIL is owed a massive apology. You essentially called her a liar. Even if you never get to see the GC again you need to apologise.

^^ What SoyDora said.

You should give her an answer to her question why you enabled him.

Oh so because you never really knew the oldest, and never met the youngest their welfare is way down the list of your priorities?
These are innocent children. They have to depend on their adults to keep them safe and secure. To take whatever steps are needed to ensure this.

Your son is a grown-ass independent man. Or at least he should be. He doesn't need the same dependence as your gc need. He doesn't need anyone to think about his welfare or well anything really. Your gc do.

You are still not seeing it, are you?
At least it sounds that your dh might have his head screwed on a bit and wants to deal with him. Normally I would say support each other, but in this case, your son needs the tough love approach and it sounds like your dh will do it. Let him. Someone needs to.

If you contact her, do it in writing, And remember your apology shouldn't be about you or your son, and how this has made you all feel. Because that's on you and him, not her.

Don't be surprised if she sends it back unopened. Or if you never hear from her. Are you really going to silently sit back and respect this or make more contact? Are you really prepared for her to contact you, and listen while she is brutally honest about his actions and your own? If not, leave her be.

You need to contact her to apologise and explain. Don't use the excuse that the bridge might be burned to avoid reaching out - it's feeble and that won't wash with your grandkids when they are older and want to know what happened. You need to act in a way now that you can stand over in the future

By that I mean tell your DIL you know she was right and you're sorry. And that you would welcome the chance to know your grandkids but you respect whatever her view is

Last night I did think the dil should hear why the op has continued to enable him.

But now I have changed my mind. She probably already knows tbh. She just wanted to hear it from your mouth then. But you already knew there was some element of truth when she asked this.

DH thinks we should ... tell (DIL) what we know but I think that bridge is probably burnt now

I doubt she'd be interested in "what you know" since she already knows it perfectly well, even though she was disbelieved. What would be appropriate - and it's notable that DH didn't suggest this instead - is a proper apology for what you've all put her and the DCs through

It's not going to happen though, is it? Clearly they're collateral damage and no kind of priority at all, so they can be dismissed and all attention focused instead on the one who caused all the pain

I think you are enabling him again by even given him three months. He works, he can pay for a hotel or something until he finds somewhere to rent. A roof over his head is not your problem, you’re just letting him carry on being an arse and punishing his children. I know he’s your son and it must be horrible to find out what type of person he is but come on, you cannot keep putting him first and looking out for him, he’s nearly 40 ffs.

I have read the thread.

I. Reality he knows he can say whatever he likes to get his way with you . He manipulates you .

He needs to stat paying proper maintenance straight away . Not declaring his income therefore restricting control further.

He has made no attempt to change simply to asset his control through the court . This isn’t about the children this is about him controlling ex.

My ex mil supervised contact for a while . She was unable to prioritise her dgs, I never ever understood this . Her Ds was a grown man it was her dgs who needed the care.

You should apologise to her until you are able to truely not support your Ds . I would not allow you accesss.

You need to withdraw any support for court case. He pays proper rent while he is with you saving him money bro fight ex is wrong.

Unless he actually wants to change though nothing you say will make a difference

It's hard to prioritise people that you don't know over your son

They are not just people though, they are your son's children and your grandchildren. The more I read from the OP the more I think that these poor children are better off far, far away from the entire paternal side of their family.

Surely it’s worth the risk of rejection to have relationships with your grandchildren?

I can’t believe how indifferent you seem to be about them, even if you don’t know them, wouldn’t you love to get to know them and spend time with them?

I doubt the op is coming back.

I think an element of this is that I never really got to spend a massive amount of time with the eldest and have never met the youngest. It's hard to prioritise people that you don't know over your son. We're going to speak to him tonight. DH thinks we should contact ex afterwards and tell her what we know but I think that bridge is probably burnt now.

This tells us everything we need to know about you OP. The shame should be reserved for you and your son due to the way you are treating these innocent children. They're not just any people they are just as much your flesh and blood as your brute of a son. You also seem to have no guilt or empathy regarding your ex DIL and the way you treated her.

You say "I think that bridge is probably burnt now." Well it's not that hard. You were wrong. Just say sorry to her (and mean it!!) then ask what you can do to help your grandchildren.

I think there's no hope for you until you stop being so passive towards the children and their mother. If only you had given them half the help you've been giving your son.

Some people are judging you very harshly for your conduct and I am inclined to agree with them now.

"Love is blind" applies here. Sadly, no one's long term interests are being served.

Stop putting your own feelings of love first OP and start using a bit of clear sight. Right now you're well down the road of condoning beating up a 2 year old.