My adult son lied to me. Now what?

[tumblelord]

Following on from my previous thread. I recently found out that my 38 year old son has been lying to me for years. He has a DS5 and DD2 and has been going through court to see them. He said that he hadn't been allowed to have contact with the children because his ex had made up lies about him. It seems that they weren't lies.

He was aggressive and threatening to his ex when she was pregnant. He isn't allowed to see DGD because she's seen as vulnerable due to her age. He is now allowed contact with DGS but DGS refuses to go with him. He smashed up a contact centre, made malicious reports to social services and spend hours parked near his ex's house to intimidate her.

He has been living with me since his relationship ended but I can't face being in the house with him at the moment. I only found out on Saturday when I was cleaning his room and found a court bundle. I can't kick him out because he only earns a small amount and doesn't have the income or paperwork to rent somewhere. I don't know what to do. I have no relationship with my grandchildren because I love and trusted my son. I feel such a fool.

He can access little courses for abusers himself if he fancies it, hasn’t been bothered to do it during his years of disgustingly behaviour choices. Give him a generous 3 weeks to remove himself from your property, your middle aged sons finances are his own private business, he can find a home at that age, ffs.
And absolutely do NOT encourage any ‘grovelling’ to his victims.

I previously assumed you were single, if you're living with your partner safety concerns should be somewhat less at least. But I still think you're being way too generous to your son. Giving him 3 months, I reckon he'll blow it off and won't change. I'd be saying he moves out in 3 weeks. No ifs, no buts.

Won't he need time to get payslips or something like that to rent somewhere?

Your son abused a women and your grandchild. Why on earth are you protecting him?

If he didn’t want to be homeless he shouldn’t have abused someone

I think it would be really good to write to your DIL and explain that you now know that your DS lied.
That you are sorry you didn't believe her and tell her
that you are not going to support DS anymore.
That might go a little way to help her. If she knows he can't hide with you anymore.
Don't ask for contact with the DGC. Only follow up when DS has moved out and got a job.

This is a tough one for you but you can help now. It is not too late.

We are going to give DS options on how to move forward

Sorry, but this sounds like more enablement to me; I recall your DIL very bravely contacted you to ask why you were doing exactly this and that you "didn't believe her" and "had no answer". You also mentioned that you haven't seen one GC at all and the other not for 2 years, but that your priority remains your DS, so one way and another he's cost you a hell of a lot

Given his behaviour, why risk more enabling him further when he's already lied so thoroughly and will no doubt continue? He's not some teenager who's lost his way but a brutish 38 year old able to make his own decisions ... and for me he'd be making them elsewhere

I'm very concerned about your daughter in law catching the brunt of all this. I really advise you to contact Women's Aid in order to get advice on how to handle this safely.

Your son doesn't have anger management issues and him having anger management classes won't help and are a waste of time. If he had anger management problems, his anger wouldn't come as a shock to you as he wouldn't be able to control his anger and you would have seen him kick off before now. You pled innocent and were shocked he was behaving so badly, therefore, he hasn't behaved like this in front of you before or you would have seen it. He can control his anger in front of you and other people.

If you want to make empty gestures then perhaps get him (not you) to contact Respect. It's an organisation for perpetrators of domestic violence: respectphoneline.org.uk/help-information/domestic-violence-prevention-programmes/

You make no mention of maintenance towards his children nor dropping the court case. Are you going to sit back and watch him throw away money that could feed and clothes his kids on harassing their mother?

For a father to only be allowed access at a contact centre he has to be very abusive with proofs of that abuse. For him then to smash up the centre in front of both professionals and his DC tells me that he's the sort of partner and father that's any woman's worst nightmare.

Your son is a very nasty man, OP. I know it's tough but it's the truth.

If you want to see those dgc, you will have to show their mother that you believe her. Actions speak louder than words. You need to get rid of that son and kick him out, otherwise you are clearly taking his side against her.

Why are you making this your problem?
This is a man of 38 or whatever. He's an adult.
It's up to HIM to seek out appropriate therapy or whatever.
It's up to HIM to look at how to rent a place. And I am shocked that he has got to this stage of his life without knowing this.
It is HIM that should be cleaning his room, and doing everything else an independent adult should be doing.
It is HIM that has to want to change.

The only thing YOU can do is tell him that he needs to grow up and start taking responsibility for the nasty things he has done.
Tell HIM that HE needs to stop being a selfish manchild and think of the children first. It is NOT in the child's interest to have unsupervised access, and until HE pulls his head out of his arse, you will NOT be supporting him at all, including putting a roof over his head.

And it seems that your only priority is him, leave the mum and children alone. They are better without any of you involved.

And boo hoo no one has met the youngest. He should have thought about this the first time he raised his hand. Rather than spending 14k on legal battles, he should have looked into his actions first, and done whatever he could then to change.

Doing it now because mommy is helping is too little too late.

with how OP has denied, minimised and point blank refused to see what was right in front of her how could she be trusted to have access to her DGC and keep them safe, how long until she would allow her son access to DC that he previously harmed?

Yes, and this - not that it's likely to happen, since after OP's previous behaviour towards her I'd expect the DIL not to risk it. Noticeable, too, that OP's not answered those who asked if the DS's been made aware she's uncovered his lies

I wonder how long it'll be before it's all swept under the carpet again because "he was going through a bad time and isn't really like that at all"

I think I'd be needing him to get a full time salaries job. With his history he's flying under the radar so he doesn't pay enough child benefit.
He's still abusing the children.

OP - you are getting a kicking here. This is a form of victim blaming. you aren't necessarily being physically or emotionally abused but nonetheless, you are also a victim. And whether or not you could have done something to prevent him becoming this person, I don't think any of us can know. Ultimately, abusers need to take responsibility and not blame it on their poor childhood/ill health/lack of finance/lack of confidence or whatever.

Obviously, you need to take a stand and I sense you are starting to understand that. But I do understand how hard it is - this is your son.

I think as other posters have said, you need to tell him that he needs to start proving all these things he is saying. And that means he needs to get a job and a home. Unfortunately, it's possible that he's nt going to be able or willing to do that, but that is not your issue. You need to make it clear you can't and won't continue to enable him. He is your son so wanting to support him if he genuinely wants to fix himself is reasonable, but that's' different to accepting it when he tells you he can't.

He needs a deadline and to commit to counselling. I have no idea what form that might take but I'ms are some research and talking to specialists would give some guidance.

Good luck.

I haven't spoken to DS yet. DH thinks we need to make sure we're 100% on the same page before we say anything to him.

The same page

Grow up and take responsibility for your actions. You have until the end of the month to find somewhere else.
Stop being so selfish and think of the children first. It is NOT in their interests to have you in their lives.

If he really has the balls to ask how to do any of that
Easy. It's called Google.

Why are you making this your problem?
This is a man of 38 or whatever. He's an adult.
It's up to HIM to seek out appropriate therapy or whatever.
It's up to HIM to look at how to rent a place. And I am shocked that he has got to this stage of his life without knowing this.

All of that. I feel much more sympathetic to you than most posters have been. But you cannot solve this. His behaviour is NOT goingto change because of anything you do at this point.

He is NOT your responsibility any more. You and your husband need to be a united front, and tell him he has to be out by the end of the month. And don't let him persuade you otherwise. He has friends and contacts, he's not a loner. Let his friends provide him with a sofa, and you need to cut those apron strings.

So if anger management is pointless, what do you suggest? I don't see how I can help otherwise

You can’t help in the ways you want to. You must put him out the house. He needs strong consequences.

You’re “help” is enablement.

I agree that you need to be on the same page as your DH on both what to do with your DS and what to do with the DIL and DGC.

I think if possible you need to get DS stepping up as a dad, dropping the court case and paying maintenance and sorting out his anger issues and getting a job that will enable him to move out, him doing that is the only way for him to maintain a good relationship with you and his. If he won’t do that then he is on his own.

You also need to reach out gently to his ex. I think if you can afford to send a cheque or gift vouchers for the children the next I would or maybe some thoughtful no strings gifts. Those children will have gone without because of their dad and I would feel bad about that.

Op, do not spend your time trying to find appropriate courses or therapists for him - he would receive advice through the court process as to what is recommended for him. If he hasn't, social services will have a view. In reality, right now what he would need is likely beyond his or your price bracket. This isn't something the NHS provide, it's more than counseling or anger management.

If he has been convicted of an DV offence he might be entitled to a course through the criminal justice system - if he is eligible, he'd know this (as an example, the one in our area is building better relationships and it's a big commitment, I think its at least six months of weekly sessions). Unfortunately if he isn't eligible for a course through this service he's unlikely to have access to anything suitable (but worth checking). Eg in my area there are NO courses for abusers outside of BBR, (there were before local govt funding was cut) social care don't fund anger management because there's no evidence it works in these circumstances, and the equivalent of BBR commissioned through a private psychological service would be 3-4k. Social care don't commission these on someone's behalf unless there is an exceptional reason to do so (eg iv secured funding once, for a parent who was violent but also a refugee who had lived through civil war and torture, and was the child's only chance to have a relationship with biological family). Social care have to use the public purse according to the child's best interests and reasonable timescales and from what you've posted I can't see much evidence to suggest that this would be likely.

I understand that this has all come as a great shock to you OP.

However I don't really think that you can do anything. It is up to your DS to sort his mess. He has fed you a pack of lies because he thought that you would automatically believe him. Even telling you that "evil" ex had stopped his supervised visitation where you now know that he smashed up the contact centre. At the moment he is still playing games with everyone - hiding money from HMRC, not supporting his children, stalking the ex and relying on you and your dh to pay for him. He needs to start taking full responsibility for his own actions and their consequences.

One thing I think you do need to do is to perhaps write a heartfelt letter of apology to his ex. She came to you and confided in you about the abuse - and you blew her off. you refused to believe her and chose to believe your deadbeat son. But now you know you were 100% wrong and an apology is in order.

Won't he need time to get payslips or something like that to rent somewhere

Yes I suppose he would. Or proof of earning history if he's self-employed. But it sounds like the only reason he doesn't have those is because he's been fiddling his income in order to hurt his own children. Oh and dodging taxes too was mentioned. So he gets no sympathy there.

He might get asked for a guarantor. Only do that yourself if you're prepared to pay ££££s if he trashes his place. Which he may well do to spite you.

Really, OP, I understand that he's your son, but there comes a time when we can do no more for them. You seem to be making excuses for him all the time. STOP IT NOW!
Three months is too long, three weeks is too long, he's what we call a cocklodger. He needs to go now.

I've glanced at the other thread, OP you live with the consequences of your actions. He is still your son but for whatever reason he has a conduct issue. How he has conducted himself is not good to put it nicely.

You need to copy that court report and keep it somewhere safe so you can remind yourself of the truth whenever you think could he really have done this.

It's very easy for people not in this situation to say what to do, but when you are in it it's very hard to be objective. You really need to keep in mind what has happened.

You can't condone violence, and he knows this, that's why he hasn't told you. You need to get over the shame of it and focus on the ex and the DGC.

HE needs to come up with a plan, and you just need to give him a deadline agreed prior between you and your DH.

By all means let him know how you feel, just don't expect that he is ever going to change and don't let your relationship with the DGC depend on him.

It's colossally hard, family members who go down these paths often have undiagnosed difficulties but that doesn't excuse them from self-responsibility, or excuse shit behaviour. Violence is point blank wrong. You can only do so much then they have to manage themselves, or it will take up your life.

It's not clear if you understand the gravity of the situation. Your son should be in prison for everything he has done and continues to do.