My adult son lied to me. Now what?

[tumblelord]

Following on from my previous thread. I recently found out that my 38 year old son has been lying to me for years. He has a DS5 and DD2 and has been going through court to see them. He said that he hadn't been allowed to have contact with the children because his ex had made up lies about him. It seems that they weren't lies.

He was aggressive and threatening to his ex when she was pregnant. He isn't allowed to see DGD because she's seen as vulnerable due to her age. He is now allowed contact with DGS but DGS refuses to go with him. He smashed up a contact centre, made malicious reports to social services and spend hours parked near his ex's house to intimidate her.

He has been living with me since his relationship ended but I can't face being in the house with him at the moment. I only found out on Saturday when I was cleaning his room and found a court bundle. I can't kick him out because he only earns a small amount and doesn't have the income or paperwork to rent somewhere. I don't know what to do. I have no relationship with my grandchildren because I love and trusted my son. I feel such a fool.

Communication is key everyone makes mistakes I'm sure he loves his children

And this ladies and gentlemen is why when men murder their wives and children people still look for ways in which he was pushed into doing it!

I wouldn't kick him out. You enabled him, you deal with it. If you kick him out he will just try find another women, possibly with kids. Keep the abuser with you and don't ever approve of him living with another home with kids.

I'd have a sit down convo with him to find out his side of the story

What side is there to know, this man assaulted his wife and small child, at one point he had supervised access to the DC and lost that as he continued to abuse his ex.

I know everyone here is saying to the OP to contact the ex but I disagree, the poor ex-wife has been a victim of domestic violence at the hands of the OP's son, her child has also been assaulted by the son, I think the poor woman has been through enough and honestly I would not trust the OP's motives for contacting this woman again, with how OP has denied, minimised and point blank refused to see what was right in front of her how could she be trusted to have access to her DGC and keep them safe, how long until she would allow her son access to DC that he previously harmed?

everyone makes mistakes good god he put his own young child at risk. He sets up his life to not provide for his children and he stalks and intimidates his ex. Oh, and he smashes up the contact centre. How is that showing that he loves his children? That shows to me that he's an abusive, controlling arse.

And I agree with ChuckleBuckles, I wouldn't trust the OP to put her grandchildren's welfare first as her primary concern is her son. If she had any access to the DGC she'd probably try and arrange contact with her son beside the mother's back. Or try and minimise his behaviour to the poor ex who's suffered enough.

OP, that's exactly what everyone told you on your last thread and you refused to believe it.

So. You have options: go to your ex DIL and grovel like you've never grovelled before if you want to have any chance at all of you seeing your gc. Don't be surprised if she doesn't believe you're sorry. Your son has abused her for years.

Second, I'd ask your son to move out and support himself. He's 38!!

There are hostels out there. Kick him out and tell him to find one.

he will be worse if he is pushed out.
there must definitely be conversation with your dh and him.

ignore the poster focusing on “enabling”

@Swimtobreathe

How fucking patronising. As the child of a mother, who choses her son time and time over me (not that I ever expected her to choose), who tells me he isn’t violent to me, isn’t like that but a kind and gentle man, never was violent to me growing up (he was and more) and even when it happened more than once right before her eyes told me that I made him do it by shouting at him when he shouted first. I would say it is you who doesn’t have a clue. The last time it happened btw was because he shouted at me that I am not disabled having told him on the 3rd time I couldn’t do something he was commanding me to do because I am disabled. According to my mother the whole thing was my fault.

Op is acting in the exact same way except she isn’t protecting her grandchildren. She has consciously known for 2 months what her son is like and maybe a lot longer before that but like my mother has always been unable to face the truth. Darn right she’s enabling him.

That should say “he was commanding me to do but I couldn’t as I am disabled”

I suspect your son may not have learnt boundaries or to respect women because you have been so easy on him, perhaps a little tough love would have gone a long way to helping him to understand it is not okay to abuse others, and to take away his safety net means that he faces up to the consequences of his actions. If you do not allow this to happen, even as he hits nearly forty years of age you are setting him up to fail in life in general

Some people will manage to turn everything around to make something a woman’s fault!
Some people are just bad people. He abused his wife and children because he wanted to, and he made the choice to do so. That is not the OP’s fault.
Having said that OP, now you know the truth you need to come down hard and get him out.

@mummyoflittledragon I'm genuinely sorry you've been through that, it doesn't give you the right to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, nor does it give you the right to tell the OP what to do as some kind of justice for your own situation.

The Op has taken time to recognise her son is an abuser. Taking time to recognise abuse, while not pleasant, is not unusual. How many people on here as victims of abuse have struggled to get others to believe it? Abusers can be very convincing, and charming.

The Op has said she wants to do something, but feels responsible and powerless. How is giving her a kicking going to help that?

What the OP does has consequences. If she creates a big drama - which to him he'll see as out of nowhere, because his situation hadn't changed - do you really think he's going to hold his hands up and say his mum's right, pack a bag and go meekly? He's more likely to turn on her, or worse, go to his ex partners and attack her for 'causing' his homelessness.

I'm sick of people criticizing women for 'enabling'. The son is the abuser. The mum wants to stand up to him and needs support to do it. She's not defending him and she's not excusing him, she's coming to terms with what she has found out about him. Its easy to sit here and say it's obvious but it's not as easy when you're living it.

IWhatever went wrong with this man went wrong a long time ago. And mothers like this will never see their part in it - largely because it would mean looking at themselves.

If the OP really had any insight or desire to change, she would have not let her 38 year old son sit like a proverbial prince non charming in her home, allowing his entitlement to breed over years so he feels content to lie to her face.

There are lots of women who are like this, who will do anything for their sons. You would be amazed how clueless they are that imposing no normal moral boundaries means that their child turns out to be selfish and manipulative. Expect him to borrow money from you and waste it. He won’t be shy about asking for it.

There should be some special mark on men raised by mothers who are little princes. It would save other women a lot of grief.

^ post above proves my point. Some people will find any way possible to blame a woman for everything.
Nothing to do with how his dad raised him then? Nothing to do with his own personality? His own life choices? It’s all on his mother?

OP, I think you need to talk to your husband so you have an agreed approach. You can't keep sheltering your son from the consequences of his actions. He hasn't declared his earnings to HMRC, so therefore he will find it hard to rent somewhere to live. If he comes clean and pays the tax he should, he'll be able to rent a flat or a room in a flat.
You could write to your DiL and apologise. She must have suffered a lot, and been terribly hurt that you enabled your son to abusee her and her children.
Apologise now, and maybe, if your son no longer lives with you, she might agree to meet you. But she will quite rightly be terribly wary that you are trying to access her children so that your son can have time with them. It would take a very long time to build any kind of trust. You would need to be patient and consistent and mean it if you said you would no longer enable your son's dreadful behaviour

post above proves my point. Some people will find any way possible to blame a woman for everything.
Nothing to do with how his dad raised him then? Nothing to do with his own personality? His own life choices? It’s all on his mother?

I don't think people are finding ways to blame women. This post is about OP enabling her son.

Maybe it's just because he has a crap personality, maybe he learned it from his dad. It could be all these things and more.

But it doesn't mean that his mother and women like his mother play no part in it at all. Take a look at the many threads on here about lazy, entitled abusive men and the relationship they still have with their mothers. These women think their sons could do no wrong and will defend them (and cook and clean for them) til the day they die.

agree Nothing to do with how his dad raised him then? Nothing to do with his own personality? His own life choices? It’s all on his mother?

Realistically, I'd be very surprised if the courts give him any contact whatsoever to his children, He smashed up a contact centre FFS!
He's shown that he can't control his temper and violence at all. The courts won't send him back to try the contact centre again, so what can they/ him suggest as an alternative place to restarting the contact? He hasn't even started an anger management course which he should have if he's serious about regaining contact. I really cant see any court in the land risking his childrens' safety and well being. They are clearly better off without seeing him at this point.
I think the OP here needs to sit down for a very honest chat with her son. Tell him you snooped at the court papers, and now realise the true extent of his violent and abusive behaviour. Tell him that the courts saying no contact is probably the natural consequence of his apalling actions. Start preparing him for the court outcome to be no contact.
Tell him that he needs to move on with his life now. And that he needs to parent his children from a distance by financially supporting them, and not terrorising their mother. Maybe he could write to them via their mother (and with her agreement) and send them a birthday and Xmas present. Don't expect anything back though. This leaves the door open for possible contact when they are adults.
In the meantime, he can get a proper job and financially support his children throughout their childhood. Every week. Without fail. Without going near them.
He should get anger management counselling.
Whether he remains living at home is neither here nor there at the moment. Though personally I would insist on him applying for proper jobs and paying a proper rent like an adult should do. (use this rent to give to his ex as ADDITIONAL money on top of his maintenance to his children.
I think he will blame his mother if she throws him out now, for him not being awarded contact by the courts.
After the verdict, if he's not turned his life round, then tell him he needs to move out.
If, (and it is a very big IF) he does manage to get his life together, he could consider whether it is appropriate in a few years time to reapply for contact via the courts. He will need to show that he has done a lot of work to get his anger under total control though.
OP could ask to meet the children's mum for a coffee (without the children ) to apologise to her and explain what she has now told her son. Maybe in time, the mum may llow her some contact wth the children. If this happens, she should not 'report' back to her son any details,

What you should do now?

Wait until your husband gets home; talk to him about what you've found.

Decide what you want to do. Possible options are:

• nothing. Keep going as you are
• Try to get him to take some responsibility for himself. This probably does come down to giving him an ultimatum. He -is- an adult, not a young one, and soft words, or even hard ones, won't work. Action is the only thing that has a chance. Make it clear that you love him, but that from now on he has to be a man not a boy, and shoulder his responsibilities; that means paying for himself and for his children as a competent adult should. I would give him three weeks' notice, but maybe you prefer 2 months or something. I honestly can't think of any other actions that could have even a chance of getting him to grow up.
• Throw him out right now.

A few people have asked are you afraid of him and you haven't answered. Are you?

I'm afraid 38 is a very late stage for someone to change, but very occasionally it can happen.

By the way if you don't take action so that he learns to look after at least himself, he's going to have a very miserable old age. It's maybe your most important duty as a loving mum to get him to take action now, even if it hurts, because it'll hurt him a lot lot more in the long run if you don't.

@MidnightMystery

You're having a laugh, right?

"Don't kick him out"
Why not? He's a grown man. Nearly 40 years old. He has a job. He was 'big' enough when he was abusing his ex and smashing up the contact centre, but now he's a little boy? He'll maybe get his finger out of his mum stops cleaning his bedroom and pandering to him.

"I'm sure he loves his children"
Oh yeah, I forgot that the way people show love to their kids is by abusing them and their mother. Destroying their things. Not working enough so as a result, not providing adequate money for them. Using them as pawns in a game where he simply just wants to punish his ex. What a guy.

He doesn't give a flying fuck if he let his mum down. If he did he wouldn't have raised his first hand. He's a scumbag who thinks the world owes him everything. He didn't like it when his ex wouldn't fall into line. The only reason he's semi ok with his mum is because she runs around after him and is too blind to see the real him. If she actually told him to fuck off, I guarantee he'd react out of anger. He wouldn't be begging for forgiveness that's for sure.

I find your response absolutely disgusting, to be honest. "Everyone makes mistakes"- they sure do. I forgot to lift the washing out of the washing machine last night. You can hardly say beating up the mother of your kids is comparable to that.

He's scum. He needs to leave his kids alone. Maybe instead of spending 14k on a court case (which I'd be very surprised if mummy dearest hadn't part funded), he could have had private therapy, got himself a place, got himself a car and paid for training to get him a better, stable job. Oh, and actually provided for his kids. Food on the table. Clothes in their wardrobes. Paid for hobbies and nursery fees.

But no. He'd rather play victim and torture his kids and ex for years. He's a shit son, a shit dad, and a shit stain on society. What a guy.

Well, as a single parent raising a child whose father doesn’t pay a penny towards his upbringing; whose father has been violent and abusive to him and me; whose father picks him up and drops him at will; whose father has financial abused us for years since I left him and caused me to have to spend thousands of pounds of money I don’t have in court: If a mother who had been harbouring and enabling, no, positively helping him, and taking his side against me and his child came grovelling I’d tell her to fuck off.

This is your reality now OP. I doubt that woman will want to give you the time of day, and I don’t blame her. What your son has done to her and her children is unforgivable, and you didn’t believe her.

I honestly wouldn’t bother contacting her until you’ve booted your son out and had nothing to do with him for a significant period of time. I wouldn’t bother offering her money until then either, because she’ll see it as blood money. You can try, and she might take it, I might be tempted, but don’t expect it to buy you her favour.

As someone who has been on the other end of what your son has done to her what you have done by enabling him and taking his side is so unforgivable that I might just spit on you if you came to my door. It really is that bad.

While you’re wavering about your abusive scumbag of a son you have no hope of seeing those children ever again, and rightly so. If you do want a relationship you need to show their mother, with actions not words, that you absolutely condemn what you son has done and will not tolerate any more of it. Then you might have a chance, but it’s only a chance.

And no, I wouldn’t tolerate it from my son either. I’ve been on the other end of it and so has he. He’d be out my door so fast his feet wuldn’t touch the ground if I ever even suspected him of doing what his father has.

Just to clarify, I wouldn’t spit on the OP, I don’t know her. I’d spit on my XH’s mother if she had done what the OP has done.

OP, you must now consider your son as a danger to you. He's been violent towards his partner and his own children, he's smashed up other people's property. You have no reason to think he won't do the same to you.

I think I would, in a public place or with some friends present (who can handle a fight!), inform him that he needs to leave by x date and time. I then would be living somewhere else myself until he's gone. Ideally I'll have my friends round to 'help him move out' (and really to deal with him when he attacks you).

You cannot trust him.

Your only problem seems to be that he has lied to you. Not that he is an abuser. People only change when they face consequences for their actions. You need to stop lying to yourself & to others to protect a 38 year old man from facing the consequences of his actions.

If he wasn’t sponging off you he would just go to a mate’s, or I don’t know maybe declare his income so he can start paying child support & get his own rental. Have you people not heard of houseshares? He works. He won’t be homeless, he can find a room on gumtree.

I would be interested in the father’s take on this & if he is also abusive in traits & the op is the enabler - I suspect it is that set up because she is lying & covering up to the father. The OP can’t even label this as “abuse” and says her son has just acted poorly, etc other minimising euphemisms. she will keep patting her dear lad on the head & coo that everything will be ok, mummy will never leave you. Probably because her own marriage is quite unhealthy, she is very permissive & enmeshed with her son. Thinking it is ok for a parent to blindly believe their child (though people are known to sometimes lie) and to clean a 38 yr old man’s room.

I suspect you will be vulnerable to his ways of manipulations and lies.

Can you copy all the docs while he is out?

I would wait until he is out the house permanently before approaching the DIL with a heartfelt apology and sincere attempts to redress the broken relationship.

I’m worried about you.