What would you do next? Am I over reacting?

[WhatWouldYouDoNext]

Hi all. This is going to be quite long for clarity. Sorry and thanks for reading.

I have been very close friends with a married man for around 8 years. I'm also friendly with his wife but have a lot more in common with him. It's all above board - our families have holidayed and spent Christmas together, there are no concerns about impropriety.

Around the start of the summer, his behaviour towards me started to change - I feel like he 'argues' with me now for the sake of it (claims to be playing Devil's Advocate but also to hold these views dear, yet has also contradicted himself); has started 'picking' on me - finding fault in what I'm saying; saying things I can only assume are intended to undermine my confidence - things like telling me men have looked at me in 'disgust' or that my 'ego is showing' when I'm simply not being down on myself and that I'm single due to my resting bitch face (joke!). That kind of thing.

We play in a band together. We've gigged a lot over the summer and some of them have included overnight stays and have been a lot of fun so I didn't say anything - not wanting to create an unpleasant atmosphere for the others - and largely dealt with it by ignoring and avoiding but it hasn't made much impact. I did try telling him that his behaviour towards me had changed and I didn't like it but rather than asking what I meant or opening a dialogue, he just said, "I could say the same about you" and shut it down.

A couple of mutual friends suggested he feels threatened by my new friendships within band and is feeling pushed out; that he is jealous because I play a 'higher profile' instrument than he does - not only does this mean that I'm more 'visible' than he is but that if I can't make a gig/left band, I'd have to be replaced whereas he wouldn't. It's been suggested that he is struggling to find his place in the band and that he is trying to be 'blokey' to fit in with the men better - I know that a couple of people find him a bit 'try hard' with a particular persona he has pushed.

I don't disagree with any of that and I think that all of it is relevant. I agree that he has found it socially difficult with them but he really likes them and loves being in the band. I agree that all of those are probably an issue for him. But none of them are my fault or my problem to solve.

However, in the event that I had inadvertently 'pushed him out', at the start of September, I resolved to make more of an effort to spend time with him. Although, the only reason I was spending less time with him was because of how he was behaving towards me.

Nevertheless, I have seen him a few times over the past few weeks and it seemed to all be relatively back to normal. No issues except for maybe a couple of little comments that I didn't like but I wasn't sure if I was just more 'sensitive' to things he was saying now. But there wasn't anything specifically unkind that was directed towards me. So I started to see it as having been resolved.

Anyway, fast forward to a few days ago. We travel to/from band practise together and, at the end of practise, he said it was time to go and he straighted his arm out and put his outstretched hand into my face to push me backwards/aside. I was horrified and stunned. We'd been talking to another man who was visibly shocked by it. I felt humiliated and didn't know how to react.

What I wish I'd done was say, "what the fuck are you doing? Don't you ever fucking touch me like that again!" What I did was try and laugh it off and said to the other man, "he's a bit of a twat, isn't he?" to which my 'friend' laughed and said, "yes I am" but he was behind me and halfway out the door by this point. The other guy just looked a bit shocked and didn't reply.

I had to travel home with him but didn't speak to him and just said I was tired when he asked what the matter was. He was talking about us going out at the weekend so clearly didn't see anything wrong in what he'd done.

I have a long standing history of abuse stemming from childhood and following on to a number of abusive relationships, that still impacts on me now and, coincidentally, the following day, I had a pre-assessment appointment for therapy to deal with this. Which i why I'm not sure if I'm overreacting to this because now I feel I have completely shut down to him. I no longer consider him a friend. I want nothing more to do with him. I don't want to see, speak to, or even be in the same room as him again.

I can deal with the family/friendship side of it - I will just have nothing to do with him but I don't know what to do about band. I don't want to be in practises with him. I don't want to do gigs with him. I don't want to see him in any capacity whatsoever. But I don't see a solution. I could leave but we have several gigs coming up in the next couple of months and I'd be leaving them massively in the shit.

I've since mentioned it to one person in the band who feels that I ought to give it no energy, put it down to being his problem and not let it affect me but I've woken up again thinking about it , feeling angry and with my heart pounding. So I thought I'd bring it here.

What would you do next?

NettleTea

You have summed it up perfectly. Thank you x

7yo7yo

Yes, I know

Fuuuuuuck.
I’ve just gone through the same thing. Not a band but another community based activity. Close male friend has become a complete dick to me. I’ve ended up leaving and I’m devastated.

This. This that you wrote earlier sums him up completely:
“I dont know - what we had was a friendship, not an emotional affair though! Like I say, we've all been friends for around 8 years.

I do agree with the misogynistic arse bit though. He's very supportive of women; prides himself on being the one to make sure women's voices are heard in meetings all that sort of thing. But I've realised that what he likes are well behaved women who are deferent to him in some way.“

Wilmalovescake

I really feel for you. It was another community based activity that it happened to me in before. It was devastating and, actually, I had no idea how much my mental health had been affected by it until I was a couple of years down the line and I looked back to some of the friendshipnchouces, in particular, that I made afterwards.

It is devastating and I don't think anyone who hasn't been through can imagine quite what a headfuck it is.

Take care of yourself and it really does get better with time. It makes you far warier around people though.

You can be a martyr all you like but you need to speak to your fellow band mates about this man appalling behaviour.

He has crossed the line into the physical and it is your responsibility to put a stop to it.

So I went out last night and he wasn't mentioned. No one asked me where he was or why he hadn't come which was good because previously we've been seen as a bit of a 'unit' in that respect. And there wasn't an appropriate time to bring it up so I didn't. He'd messaged me when I got home to say he hoped I'd had a good Saturday night 🙄

I'm glad in a way because now I've shown I'm not going to make a 'drama' out of it.

But it will speak to the leader about It.

The other thing i wondered about is contacting him and telling him, factually, what the issue is. I'm conscious that if I just say something to him in front of the others then he could, legitimately say he had no idea I felt this way and ask why I hadn't said anything to him and why I'd chosen to try and humiliate him in front of a group - after all we've been friends for 8 years... And I think most people would empathise with that.

So I was thinking of messaging something like this

"in the summer, I told you that your behaviour towards me had changed and I didn't like it. Your response was that you could say the same to me. However, what I didn't like was things you had said and done to me. What you didn't like was my response..

Over the past few months, you've been increasingly manipulaative; passive aggressive; spiteful, unkind and generally disrespectful to me. My response was to spend less time with you. Things appeared to have improved over the past couple of weeks and we've spent a nice couple of afternoons/evenings together. And then, last week, you put your hand in my face and you pushed me out of the way.

Given that you know my history; given that you pride yourself in being controlled and measured; given that you don't act without thought or intention, I can only assume that these increasingly hostile behaviours are deliberate.

Which makes you someone it's not safe for me to be around anymore."

How does that sound?

You can be a martyr all you like

how am I being a martyr?

You have made really good progress

Do not message him. Please.

You will feed his drama, his soap opera.

Grey rock (I would recommend reading up about it again just to remind yourself what you're dealing with here)

He reminds me so much of my mate's abusive exh. Same MO, same pattern of abuse starting from negging to full on coercive control.

Glad you had a good time last night.

I can see the argument for sending him a message, not because of what he or other people might think if you don't, but because telling him directly that you don't like his behaviour and you're no longer friends is the assertive thing to do. The problem is that he will probably react badly. He will probably try to argue with you or punish you will nasty words and/or the silent treatment. So I think if you do send a message you should be prepared to send it and then stop engaging - ignore his messages and calls (if there are any) and follow through by deleting him on Facebook, etc.

If you send one it should be very brief, the one you have written is too long and involves too much explaining and justifying yourself.

Personally I think I would focus on the incident when he pushed you. "Your physical aggression towards me on [day] was completely unacceptable. After the last few months of nasty comments, it was the final straw. I don't want to discuss it with you but I am asking you to keep a respectful distance when we cross paths at the band. Thank you."

Don't message him! He knows what he's doing. No-one needs telling that putting their hand in someone's face, or saying what he did about that other man to you, isn't nice behaviour.

Don't feed the drama or give him anything he can use against you. You're best off not even letting him know you're onto him. You are entitled to end a friendship at any time for any reason and you don't owe him anything.

I like another Emmas message better. Shorter and more focused. Remember it’s in writing and can be used against you.

I agree that Emma's message is good, short and to the point.

Either something like that or do nothing. You're doing well op, this may well blow over. I do hope so.

Definitely AnotherEmma comment if you say anything at all
Glad you went out last night

I think your message is good but more explanation points to argue/discuss. Sticking to towels approach less is more.

Something like "We are no longer friends because your behaviour is not acceptable. I will be civil at band but do not contact me directly."

You are not over reacting - I hate being touched on my face I often tell my 7 year old not to do it. I think I would have said something at the time however I understand why you didn’t.

The manipulating thing rings true with me too as my ex used to say he was doing this at work. I think it’s a really unhealthy way of viewing other people.

Keep those boundaries high and don’t leave the band because of him!

It is sad that when he pushed you in the face the other person did not stick up for you and have your back. But you have them as a witness to his bad behaviour.
if they had called out his behaviour and said ' Don't push her, thats assault ' he wouldn't have had his bad behaviour enabled via no reaction.

My abusive ex husband got away with so much abuse and bad behaviour infront of friends who didn't defend me, he was enabled by them and still is.

Like other posters say, send a short text to him, then block and delete.
Sorry you have been put through this.

For gods sake don't message him!
Of course you can just ignore and blank him now.
I don't understand why you want to message him again and continue the drama

I would speak to the band leader before I text him, because you should get your side of the story in first.

Please don’t leave the band because if him. He should be kicked out.

@ReturnofSaturn confronting your abuser is not ‘continuing the drama’. What a horrible comment

I think you shouldn't message him. In all my years on this planet, the one thing I've learnt to my benefit is 'silence is powerful'.

If you avoid him totally and he eventually asks you why, you can respond. But sending that long email is just opening up dialogue whereby he'll tie you up in knots.

Silence is far more powerful. And it will make it much easier for you in the long run.

Don't message him, you dont need to. He's not entitled to it and you're not obliged to do it, remember that. You are an autonomous adult and this man has no right to your time so you don't need to 'reason' with him as to why you no longer want to give him it.

Move away and grey rock him, people have fallen away from each other for less. He knows what he's doing, even if he pretends not to, so you don't need to send a lengthy message to explain it. He will likely see that as still having a hold on you as you feel you have to explain yourself to him. Walking away and grey rocking sends a much stronger message. You've made you decision and it's only you who matters now. Good Luck and stay strong !

OMG Op, I've just read your full thread! What a horrible horrible person. Totally agree with @TowelNumber42's approach.

Also agree that you shouldn't message him again, but if you do, then @AnotherEmma's message is what you should send.

Good luck and please don't let him drag you into any further discourse with him. I would also worry that he'd become even more physical with you if you're ever alone with him, so please don't allow yourself to be in that position with him ever again! Grey rock.

Do not message him!

If you did feel an absolutely overwhelming need to text, first ask yourself why.

You seem to want to make sure that when this goes to court or people read the 800 page transcript they have no criticism of you. Catch yourself on, nobody else gives a shit really. As for him, no matter what happens he will be a dick. Because he is a dick. There will be dickish behaviour.

If there is ever a time for a text, it should be "I don't want to hang out with you any more." If he can't work out why not by himself then he's too unsafe for you to be around. How much he whines behind your back isn't your problem.

Last night showed that the group care more about you than him. He's trying to reel you back (like has worked before). Do not engage. At all. Ghost.

After putting his hands on you he deserves ghosting. Any normal human being would understand it without explanation. He does actually know but still expects you to get over it and give him attention. He'll get angry soon when he realises you won't jump to his tune like his wife.

Btw, if the rest of the group think you have behaved less than perfectly they will not care. They will see you as a normal human and thus a better candidate for good friend. Nobody likes hanging out with little miss perfect. Someone who always has to make sure she is never open to criticism is annoying too.

Remember, the goal is not to make him know he's a dick and change his spots. The goal is to keep the band. You handled it perfectly last night.

I don't understand why you want to message him again and continue the drama

Well because unless I leave band, I'll be in a room with him tomorrow evening. It's a pretty small room, there are only a few of us and so it's going to be pretty difficult to avoid and ignore him without it looking like I am the problem. Especially as he'll ramp up the niceness/victim of my 'social isolation' in front of others - because he's already started that.

I know that the theory behind not saying anything is sound but the reality is I'm going to be in a room with him and other people who think we are close friends, with someone who is already clearly trying to manipulate other people against me; and where my 'grey rock' will become his 'stonewall'.

I wasn't intending on engaging in a dialogue with him. What I wanted to do was send a single, incontrovertible message so that I can't be accused of playing games or asked why I escalated my reaction without at least talking to him. And where he can't claim that he had no idea that I felt this way. Because others aren't going to understand why I haven't already spoken to him because that's what everyone has asked me so far - why I haven't spoken to him about it.

The MN recommended approach of sending a single one line message and blocking is fine if you're never going to see the person again but it's not much use if youre going to have to see that person weekly and have to spend a lot of time with them.

This is also someone who we've been on holidays with and spent christmas with. Who stepped in to provide last minute babysitting when their dad let me down; who has been supportive professionally. This man was essentially my 'best friend' for 8 years. It's not realistic to go from that to just not talking to him whilst in a small space.

It is sad that when he pushed you in the face the other person did not stick up for you and have your back.

I think he was as stunned as me.

Catch yourself on, nobody else gives a shit really.

They will if I'm deemed to he the cause of a negative atmosphere in band.