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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

.... I'm not. DH just staggered in at 6am.

254 replies

ContessaLovesTheSunshine · 19/10/2019 06:11

He has a history of relying heavily on alcohol but has been doing better this year after a crisis last Christmas, in which he ended up in A and E. He does still have a regular Friday night outing though.

For the past 2 weeks he's been out late, or so I thought, and so yesterday he assured me that it wouldn't be a late one.

He's just staggered in and been sent upstairs to DS2's empty room (DC are 8 and 7yo - DS2 currently in my bed)

I am so angry, and just plain sick of him and his shit.

I'd appreciate a handhold or some advice on how to manage this please. He is notoriously resistant to accepting any kind of culpability for wrongdoing - I can hear the accusations of controlling behaviour now.

Divorce looking much more real this morning.....

OP posts:
MotherofTerriers · 19/10/2019 09:43

He isn’t going to agree with you and accept that he has a problem. Tell your friends, tell your family. Find a good solicitor, get recommendations if possible. Work out what you want, it sounds like a decent starting point would be that you want to stay in your house and have him leave. Once you’ve got support, legal advice and a plan, sit him down and say that either he leaves willingly, gets treatment and stays sober for a prolonged period or you are divorcing him and removing him legally.

Living with an alcoholic is horrible, I did it for far too many years. You and your kids deserve better

TellMeWhoTheVilliansAre · 19/10/2019 09:45

Socktpuppet, thanks for your concern but I KNOW it's not my fault. I know I didn't make him drink. But I know I enabled it. (Every partner of every alcoholic ever enables them to a degree). I knew all this BEFORE I went to Al-Anon which is the reason I took the step to go. I am there to change ME not change him.

And I'm sorry you got nothing from your group, but I can assure you the people in my group are not "sad sacks". They have listened to me when I felt I couldn't speak to anyone else. They listened to me without judgement or trying to sort it all out for me. I have gotten great support and have started to make changes TO MYSELF. I am happier. I am freer. I am less anxious and less wrapped up in the alcoholic because I am detaching from him and I am focusing on me.

I will eventually leave. But I will leave when I am ready. I will make my own decisions on what is right for me, when the time is right. But for now I see a light at the end of the tunnel. I am happier. If I'm less stressed and hassled my children are happier. My husband is even shifting in his behaviour in response to my change in attitude. But that is not my primary aim. I am there for me, and it is helping me enormously. Nobody is blaming me. If anything, I went in there blaming myself and soon had that knocked out of me!

I really sorry it didn't work for you. But it does work for millions. And I can honestly say it has changed my home life for the better.

Encyclo · 19/10/2019 09:45

Daughter of an alcoholic here.
Dad's been sober 32 years. My
Childhood was littered with moments like you described OP. Eventually, after going missing for 2 days, he went to rehab. Failed on the first attempt to get clean, succeeded in the second. They celebrated 62 years of marriage this summer and all has been long forgiven.

In every other way he was a lovely dad, but he pretty much destroyed our childhood.

Memories of my mother sitting crying in the kitchen on the nights he didn't come home, then finally rolled in drunk are seared into my brain. Then the fights that kept us all awake for hours.

Myself and my brother are the oldest of four kids and remember most of the episodes. Neither of us drink as a result.

I would never inflict that life on my children. Never.

MissConductUS · 19/10/2019 09:46

I'm another recovering alcoholic (25 years sober) and an RN.

It's a progressive illness and does get worse over time. And it's a real addiction with physical changes in the brain, not just rubbish behavior:

MOLECULAR MECHANISMS UNDERLYING ACUTE AND CHRONIC ALCOHOLISM

The incident at A&E may have been alcohol poisoning or alcohol withdrawal. Addiction is a medical condition and it's not going to get better without help. There's an old saying in AA, "You alone must do it but you cannot do it alone.". He needs to start with his doctor and then find some sort of peer support like AA. He also needs to know that you'll support him, but only while he's actively in recovery. You may well need to move out, but as a first step he needs to experience all of the consequences of his behavior without you covering for him.

Do try Al-anon, you'll learn a lot there and get important support yourself. And I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

Flowers
KnickerBockerAndrew · 19/10/2019 09:47

Sister of an alcoholic here. It's fucking heartbreaking. I don't know who she is anymore.

The one key piece of advice that has stuck with me is, You can't change their behaviour, you can only control your own response. I think it's so, so much easier when you concede the fact that you can't change them.

C8H10N4O2 · 19/10/2019 09:49

Aloholics need to change themselves - you will not change him, nor can you have a rational discussion or agreement with an alcoholic. At the moment your DC are watching you enable an unpredictable alcoholic.

I agree with others saying move this to Relationships. Then get legal advice on the house and divorce proceedings. Even if you ultimately sell the house, don't surrender it to him and disrupt your children other than as a last resort.

Mushypeasandchipstogo · 19/10/2019 09:49

This is a similar situation to what my DM found herself in 40 years ago. She stayed with him as she couldn’t afford to leave. I wish to God that she had- he never changed and he made our lives miserable. For the sake of your children kick him out now.

YouJustDoYou · 19/10/2019 09:51

Childhood was littered with moments like you described OP. Eventually, after going missing for 2 days, he went to rehab. Failed on the first attempt to get clean, succeeded in the second. They celebrated 62 years of marriage this summer and all has been long forgiven

In every other way he was a lovely dad, but he pretty much destroyed our childhood

Memories of my mother sitting crying in the kitchen on the nights he didn't come home, then finally rolled in drunk are seared into my brain. Then the fights that kept us all awake for hours

Myself and my brother are the oldest of four kids and remember most of the episodes. Neither of us drink as a result

I would never inflict that life on my children. Never

Oh Encyclo, that sounds awful. My brother doesn't drink as a result either, I was alcohol dependent but I refused to do it to my kids too like my parents did to me.

TARSCOUT · 19/10/2019 09:57

Daughter of alcoholic here, mum stayed with him until he tried to strangle my brother. I remember everything as if it was yesterday and I still have feel a bit resentful although I do know 40 years ago it was a different time, your children may not be that understanding.

Shortwinter · 19/10/2019 09:58

I’m sorry sounds awful.

betternamepending · 19/10/2019 10:00

Honesrly OP, I find it abusive that you let your childen stay in this toxic situation after reading what happened last christmas. You are their mother, they need you to make an emotional safe home for them and by staying you are really lacking. Bring the kids to grandad, tell your partner it's over, tell him either he leaves or you and the kids leave but you'd rather that he left and the kids weren't uprooted. Then either walk out (pack first of course) or change the locks.

RandomMess · 19/10/2019 10:04

You gave him an ultimatum and for 10 months he's not done a thing, not got help etc.

Start with the divorce proceedings and see if you can get an occupation order. If he kicks off at all call the police, if he comes home drunk don't let him in. Basically remove his ability to have a comfy life in the marital home should he not do the right thing by moving out.

Live separately- no food shopping, cooking, washing, ironing. Make him move into another bedroom etc.

TellMeWhoTheVilliansAre · 19/10/2019 10:06

body-dynamics.net/articles/alcoholism.html

Read this. You might find a lot of it relevant. It was a lecture given in the 60s.. But it still is very much relevant 50/60 years later.

Span1elsRock · 19/10/2019 10:07

I'm so sorry, OP, this must feel horrendous.

I'd really advise Al-Anon, they supported a good friend through a horrendous time with her DP. She was almost wearing blinkers to his behaviour, and having those ripped off was such a relief as we'd all been telling her for years to get him out. With a lot of support, she had him removed from their HA tenancy and packed his bags. The Police had to escort him away, his rage was incredible and very frightening for her DC to witness but they've all thrived without the black cloud of his presence over their lives. She's now happily remarried, but her DC don't see their Dad at all - they have barely any happy memories of their childhood and that's been a big burden for her to carry at times.

You can do this Flowers

ContessaLovesTheSunshine · 19/10/2019 10:11

You gave him an ultimatum and for 10 months he's not done a thing, not got help etc.

In fairness (?!?) he doesn't drink at home any more. I'm good at spotting micro amounts (he always denied it but I knew) and I am sure that's been a change for the better. The Friday night has got steadily worse though.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 19/10/2019 10:13

He didn't go to AA or get counselling so he has done to actually address his addiction.

ClaudiaSchiffersUglySister · 19/10/2019 10:16

The only thing that stopped my dad from drinking was oesophageal cancer; he literally couldn’t keep it down anymore. This was in his late 70s. He died when he was 80.

I am FURIOUS with my mother for not divorcing him. We had to endure so much shit.

Do it for your kids.

betternamepending · 19/10/2019 10:19

In fairness (?!?) he doesn't drink at home any more.

An alcoholic cannot drink EVER. It is an addiction and is not controlable when using any kind of alcohol anywhere or anytime. Either he stops drinking forever or he stays an alcoholic. Going to AA is a first step, but if he is serious about getting clean then the rest of his life will have to be devoid of alcohol, no ifs or buts or just this once.

Half of my family are problem drinkers. The only one doing well is the one who went to AA and hasnt even eaten an alcoholic bonbon since the 80s. The rest have all fallen back into alcoholism from time to time.

Encyclo · 19/10/2019 10:24

An alcoholic cannot drink EVER. It is an addiction and is not controlable when using any kind of alcohol anywhere or anytime. Either he stops drinking forever or he stays an alcoholic.

This.

LauraPalmersBodybag · 19/10/2019 10:24

Children do know when they’re being lied to op, I don’t think you telling the truth is a bad thing, I also don’t think judging you is the thing to do here.

I’m the child of an alcoholic, growing up with my father had catastrophic effects on my well being, and continues to into adulthood. I’d encourage you to do two things for all your sakes: look at separating if you think he can’t sustain sobriety, and think very carefully about how contact with the children is managed afterwards.

Unfortunately for me, I spent long periods living alone with my alcoholic father. That did me a lot of harm. I’ll never understand why my mother allowed it happen. If you separate think about supervised contact, short visits, daytime only stuff...anything to avoid leaving children with him for too long if he’s drinking.

Also an open line of communication to get your kids out of his care if he is drinking. For that to happen, they need to understand that their dad can’t drink at all.

I’m wishing you the very best of luck, it must be hell and I’m sorry that you’re going through this. Flowers

crochetandshit · 19/10/2019 10:26

OP if you are still going away with ds2 is there anyone else that ds1 can stay with tonight?

LauraPalmersBodybag · 19/10/2019 10:27

Also echoing the point that any drinking is still drinking. We were fooled by that one on numerous occasions.

Newschapter · 19/10/2019 10:30

I grew up with an alcoholic father.

He used to go missing for weeks.

I remember my mum sending him to the shop for meat for the dinner and he didn't come home for three days. We had ham sandwiches for dinner.

He used to cry all over the place, he abused us and my mother, he was a twisted evil bully of a man.

She didn't leave him until we were all adults and he ruined our lives.

My brother is an alcoholic, my sister is an alcoholic and the rest of us are almost tee total.

I have no contact with my father and am still furious at my mother all these years later.

And thanks to dementia, she doesn't remember his abuse. It's just us who has to live with it.

I get how hard this is, I really do, but please think of those two little boys and let them see they don't have to live like this.

I used to lie awake on a Saturday night (Friday in your case) and panic and worry about what would happen when he finally came home. I couldn't breathe as I waited for a key in the door, a drunken sneeze or some signal that he was in a good or bad mood.

It took me years to control the sick feeling when I smelt beer on someone's breath or a certain aftershave.

I'm in my 40's now, I have a stomach ulcer that is absolutely linked to childhood trauma and stress.

I wish someone had given my mother advice to walk away, I'd rather have had nothing than lay in bed listening to my father shouting or crying.

ContessaLovesTheSunshine · 19/10/2019 10:32

He's just come out of the bedroom and we've had the usual still-somewhat-drunk apologetic conversation. I've taken the opportunity to be very very clear about my position and how he HAS to seek external help now. He has been very resistant to that to date so the fact that he agreed was surprising. I also flatly refused to do the usual dissection of his feelings and insisted that he call the AA. He is hopefully on the phone to them now.

Went to check.... I had to physically call them for him and hand him the phone.

Oh just fuck this.

OP posts:
ContessaLovesTheSunshine · 19/10/2019 10:33

There's an emotional journey right there in that post!!

OP posts:
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