DH has driven me to despair

[treacletree]

Hi everyone.

Long time lurker here. This morning I feel very bleak about my fairly new marriage and I desperately need someone to talk sense to me. Sorry because this is just word vomit and very long. I hop me it makes sense.

I guess I feel a bit like I’m going mad and I have no idea whether the problems are rooted in emotional issues I admit I have, or a fundamental incompatibility, or his issues, or all of those.. I guess I want to know if I am as much of a piece of shit as he makes me feel about 80% of the time. If so, then I want to change, I’m happy to change. The other 20% of our time is wonderful- affectionate, loving, full of jokes, adventures. But I just feel exhausted by the cycles we are in.

This morning he is being short with me over text (always a sure sign) and sat on the bed staring into space for about 45 mins while I rushed about getting my dd breakfast and ready for school, and showering and washing my hair. When I was out if the shower he stood there “checking me out”/trying to grope my bum as I got dressed and I said joking “dh I’m jsut trying to get ready here” (I feel very self conscious at the moment due to weight gain and skin flare up and i just wanted to get my clothes and makeup on without feeling looked at. Yes, I know maybe that’s weird- but jsut because he is dh doesn’t mean he gets to just leer when I’m not feeling it? Am I wrong? Anyway he accused me of being “nasty” and went off to sit on the bed. I then did all of dd breakfast, getting dressed, teeth and got myself ready, ended up rushing to work and being 5 mins late. Which has happened a lot lately- as I am there he tends to do very little now.

Extra Background: He used to be in charge of mornings but I changed my work hours to be there too- because regularly he would text or call me when I was already at work, saying dd (4.5) was being difficult and he “couldn’t” get her to get ready. Tactfully as possible I suggested that it would be nicer if we all went off together in the morning. In reality I changed my work hours (sacrificing an early finish) because it was incredibly stressful trying to do work in the morning knowing how incapable he was of getting him and dd out the door without getting cross and worked up. It caused a lot of fights so I now ensure everyone gets out the door in a better mood. With dd like a lot of things this amounts to strategies, praise, being firm but fair (she hates mornings.) He tends to just get cross and resort to threats of taking toys away, etc.

Anyway, he is now being off with me like I said. I apologised a couple of times, explained how I was feeling about myself and said I had never meant to be nasty. He just brushes this off like HE isn’t acting weird. I don’t really know what I’ve done so wrong. The only thing he has said to me today is that I need to split a hotel night with him for when me and dd came to visit him on his last work trip. I paid just under £300 for me and dd flights over, and he expensed that entire week except for the one hotel night (£100). I guess I thought that because I got the flights he would get the hotel night. Anyway, we are married. He also earns a third more than I do. It seems a little petty I suppose, and is definitely in the context of today’s “row”.

Anyway maybe that gives you a flavour of the type of situation we find ourselves in time and again. Generally it’s a misunderstanding that escalated into a full on row. Last week, when we were out as a family he made a comment about “when we move to the suburbs”. I turned around and (again trying to be jokey) was like “what? Since when are we moving to the suburbs?” He apparently thought I was pissed of and immediately accused me of spoiling the day. I was cross he would do this in front of dd (though he has before a lot) but explained that as he knows I never wanted to move to the suburbs of our city and I had jsut been surprised by what he said. He essentially got very angry and said I was trying to start an argument, it ended with him threatening to storm off and leave me and dd in this unfamiliar place. (He has also done this before, most memorably while we were on holiday in a foreign city I didnt know, when he had the keys to the hotel room.)

I try and try to talk to him about why we argue, why it escalates. It happens so much and I’m not playing down my role, it’s just that if I express a wish that he doesn’t like, or if I call him out on something, he gets really angry. Either I’m “nasty” or I’m “trying to start an argument as usual” or similar, and he goes to stonewalling. It makes me really upset. For a long time I imagined it was me being too emotional and I have been having weekly CBT counselling for the past 3 months (fitted around my busy job) to try and target emotional baggage I have. He previously said he would get counselling so he is better at emotional discussions, but he never has pursued this. I also try and send him articles on relationship conflict resolution if we have had a bad one and suggested we try and approach conflict better, but it’s always me initiating this.

Another thing that makes me uncomfortable recently is that he has accused me of being way too negative because I get “too angry” about issues that I care about which mainly revolve around child poverty and feminism. I do a bit of volunteering in these areas, read widely around them and sometimes I do get very passionate in saying my views. If I do, he will either not engage and will change the subject completely, or he will say he doesn’t think I should get too worked up because there’s nothing you can do. When that happens I feel lonely and wonder if I am actually an incredibly difficult person. We have always been quite different- I’m quite passionate and opinionated and he doesn’t take views on a lot of controversial topics, as in his family they never really talk about stuff like that. I never minded that he was this way, I guess I jsut now feel like it’s being used as a way to make me feel bad. Like I’m an angry, negative person. The other day I was talking about a rape case in the news and he just ignored all I said and when I asked what he thought he said he jsut didn’t see why I was getting so “angry”. But I wasn’t angry with anyone. I was just being me. I don’t know how not to be me, I’m in my thirties and I’ve never been made to feel wrong like this before.

Sometimes I feel like there’s no benefit to him being around. On a great day: he’s had enough sleep, had a good week at work, is excited about something coming up, maybe we had sex or something, DD is well behaved, I’ve made a plan for the day he is interested in. And then things are jsut so good. He’s engaged in the family, he’s joking and happy and doesn’t take things to heart, he’s lovely with dd. Our honeymoon was like this.
But then the reality is if most of these are not the case, he’s moody, unpredictable and easily irritated. I feel like the middle man trying to stop him and dd clashing. I begin to feel despondent then at some point I voice this and he gets quickly angry because I was “trying to start an argument again”. Jsut 2 weeks after our honeymoon a big row happened in this way.
On our worst days he has had me sobbing in public places while he refuses to forgive me or calm down from whatever it is. That hasn’t happened for a while. But it has happened more than once.

I know I am not perfect. I’ve had a string of failed relationships including dd’s Dad. I always put this down to me being difficult but through therapy I am a bit kinder to myself and can recognise I picked the wrong men since being a teenager shuttling between 2 EA households after a bad divorce. 2 of my 4 sex partners before dh sexually assaulted me and I never realised it for years after. When I met dh I had a young dd, had been a single mum and felt worthless. After about 6 months only he began to show unearned dominance around my house and my dd and it is a big regret that I didn’t shut him down. They do have a good relationship but to be honest I know their bond isn’t as strong as he thinks it is. Her bio dad has recently got back in contact and I have a feeling she will become more distant from dh if that relationship develops.

I also have a fear of having a child with dh. It makes me feel abnormal. When he is on a good day and being supportive he says all the right things- we will do what you want whenever you want, I’m here for you. But it’s not that I don’t want another child or that I think I couldnt even manage as a single mum, I know I can. It’s that I don’t want HIS child. I don’t know why. Ona very good day I think I do. But usually I just don’t.

Again though, is this just down to my emotional damage? I’m beginning to think that maybe I am not cut out for adult romantic relationships and I feel a strange sense of peace at that. I’ve never made them work. I’m married and I can’t make it work. I know he is not all bad but he can be a lot bad. So can I, but I don’t know if that means im all wrong. Maybe I’m just wrong with him. Or anyone.

If you got to the end, Thankyou. I have never voiced some of this stuff even to myself.

If you can share any wisdom or thoughts I would appreciate it a lot because I don’t think I can go on like this

Sometimes it doesn't matter whether it's right or if it's just how you feel and maybe lacking a bit of perspective. Noone knows because we're not there. But you sound so unhappy I think you need to leave. He is not going to change.

What is the point of him?
What does he bring to the table?
Does he enhance your life?
Does he cherish you?
Honestly, it's not working for you. For what ever reason.
You can end any relationship, married or not, for any reason you want.
I suggest you get out of this one.
He sounds abusive and controlling.

Gosh OP that all sounds utterly exhausting.
He sounds very unpredictable and I just couldn't live like that.
You sound incompatible tbh. No one can tell you what to do but with a young child about picking up on all this I would seriously consider your options and if you can continue 80% being unhappy and miserable and just 20% happy, depending on his mood.
I do sympathise

Your post makes for extremely depressing reading, OP.

Whatever possessed you to visit this abusive arsewipe on your dd?

Fgs don't have a child with him and end this ill suited marriage asap.

Sounds to me like every-time you say something he doesn't agree with (regardless of context or if you said it nicely or joking), he uses it as an excuse to 'have a go at you'

Suburbs - you joke - he says you've ruined the day

Him leering - you ask him not to - he has a strop

Etc etc

I certainly wouldn't want to be with him, if that helps....

The only acceptable level of abuse in a relationship is none.

All the adults in your life, starting with your parents, have let you down abjectly.

The poor lessons on relationships you learnt in childhood at the hands of your parents remain with you to this day. You were targeted by this individual also due to your poor relationship history and he ran with it. This man you are currently with is an abuser also, maybe not quite the same as the other men but abusive all the same. He saw an emotionally vulnerable in a bad place single mum and honed in on you.

Please call Women’s aid today and start planning your divorce from this relationship.

What do you want to teach your child about relationships and what is she learning here?.

Your daughter cannot and must not learn such poor relationship lessons now because she could well go onto make the same relationship errors you have.

Such men too hate women, all of them.

I guess I feel like we are not bringing out the best in each other. And I wish we were.
I’ve thought for a long time “if I only had the right words/the right solution” but his sulking or anger can be like a wall impossible to get through. And I can’t dvdn predict what he will take badly because eg if he thinks I’m being “nasty” and I say “I’m categorically telling you that I wasn’t trying to be nasty, I have no wish to be nasty to you” he has actually said “you don’t know when you’re being nasty”. Now either I am severely unself aware or I now don’t even know if I am nasty or not?? How can that be.. how can I change if I don’t know? Does that make sense.
I think I am caring. I’ll do anything for family and friends, I volunteer a lot, help colleagues. I started therapy because I was worried I was fundamentally wrong and my therapist does not believe I am like that. I know I never want to hurt my partner or anything like that. He just won’t believe it or chooses to take offence but I can’t prerict when. A lot of times it is when I clash with him over how to deal with my dd. That has derailed a lot of ok days.

I have asked him a lot especially recently if he is happy or if he feels differently about me as he seems to be so quick to anger. He says not.

You let this horrendous man into your home with your daughter? Stop appeasing him for gods sake put your daughter first. He's a controlling abusive wanker. You deserve so much more. Being alone with DD will be heaps better than putting up with this.

I also have a fear of having a child with dh

I think you instinctively know that if you were to be so foolish as to have a child with him, he'd become even more unpleasant than he already is.

He's a joy sucker and he''ll never change his ways.

treacletree,

re your comment:-
"I guess I feel like we are not bringing out the best in each other. And I wish we were.
I’ve thought for a long time “if I only had the right words/the right solution” but his sulking or anger can be like a wall impossible to get through."

Abuse however, is NOT about communication or a perceived lack of; its about power and control. Its not about you not being able to bring out the best in him; there is no best in him anyway. This man wants absolute power and control over you and in turn your DD here. His sulking is another form of emotional abuse and he has a problem with anger but not in the ways you think. He has a problem with anger, your anger when you rightly call him out on his unacceptable behaviour.

If a friend was telling you all this, what would your response be?.

He isn’t horrendous all the time. He can be really loving and kind and he is family oriented. Sometimes he can see how bad he is with conflict or difficult emotions. He says I paint him so badly. I don’t want to only see the bad in him, I’ve invested so much in us over the years. But today was just so stupid on the back of a load of things where I admit I made a dumb comment or maybe clashed with him on something not that important and we had this escalating row. Maybe over time he has just got sick of arguing too. But I feel like he wilfully refuses to listen to me and when he’s like that he treats me badly.

I don't usually comment much on this sort of thread but I couldn't read all of that OP and not say something to you. I'm much older than you, but my only words of wisdom are that life is far too short to put up with abuse like this from a man. He makes you miserable about 80% of the time you say, and I bet even when he is being 'nice' you are anxious that he will turn at any problem that comes up.

You sound as if you are doubting yourself and trying to change who you are. Don't. You are who you are and you are not at fault for this. First time I've said this, but LTB. Save yourself and your dd.

I guess maybe I feel like maybe women never can truly speak up in relationships without being subject to anger on the receiving end.
I’m a huge feminist but in my personal life I am ashamed to say that is probably what I think and so when I do I get nervous and his reaction makes me feel 10x worse.

He likes having you around because your boundaries are so low here as to be practically non existent. If you left (which is the only course of action I can advise) he would then have to find another sap of a woman to woo and that is hard work so he does not want to do that. He targeted you treacletree, I have no doubts at all about that.

What you learnt about relationships when you were growing up has stayed with you to this day and he is also milking that for all its worth too.

You are not, at all, being nasty but he is gaslighting you and making you think you are. Why? Because he needs justification for his temper tantrums and that is the only way he can get it. You are doing nothing wrong. Google fear, obligation, guilt and may be worth reading some Lindy Bancroft books to heals you understand what a nasty manipulative cult he is.

And leave him. He will destroy you over years, slowly chipping away st you and your poor dd.

Am I right that I could sum up your entire post in, 'I have to tiptoe around him because if I criticise him, or do anything that is not what he wants me to do (even if I didn't know that was what he wanted) he will be angry /cruel/aggressive and I will be punished for my behaviour. Plus I can't trust him to be kind to DD or to look after her properly, even when he offers."

In which case, honestly, what on earth do you get out of this relationship? It's not you, it is him. And yes, it may well be that you are attracted to men of this type because of your background but I'd say continuing with your therapy and working on your own issues will help you to stop getting involved with this type in the future. But it won't solve the problems with THIS man.

I'm not a big LTB person. But I get so sad when I read these stories on MN. Please don't put up with any of this.

He isn’t horrendous all the time

OP listen to yourself. Your partner shouldn't be horrendous ANY of the time.

Honestly, your relationship sounds exhausting and unhealthy. I don't know how you're not miserable but none of the things you describe are ok for him to be doing. And they're not normal. This is not just 'how it is' in a relationship/with men.

He isn’t horrendous all the time. He can be really loving and kind and he is family oriented. Sometimes he can see how bad he is with conflict or difficult emotions. He says I paint him so badly. I don’t want to only see the bad in him, I’ve invested so much in us over the years.

Abusive people are not horrible all the time (even your EA parents I guess were not horrid all the time either) but what he has in common with them is that the nice/nasty cycle of abuse is present and that is a continuous cycle too. He really has succeeded further in messing with your head, a head bashed around by years of abuse from other adults and your parents who started all this with you.

As for all this nonsense about investing so much into the relationship, this is known as the "sunken costs fallacy" and that basically causes good people like you to keep on making poor relationship decisions. You are getting bogged down in sunk costs.

There are two ways to understand this process, both involving avoidance. One is an avoidance of disappointment or loss when something doesn’t work out. When a relationship doesn’t succeed, especially after a long period, especially after many shared experiences and especially after developing a hope that the relationship would be a good one, it is a loss. It is a loss of what might have been and an acknowledgement that a part of one’s life has been devoted to this endeavour.

Another angle to evaluate is that focus on “sunk cost” creates a distraction from one’s inner truth. The sentence often goes like, “I’ve already invested to much, so I can’t notice my thoughts and feelings that are telling me to end or change this relationship.”

This is a type of insidious defense against noticing yourself. You enter into a neglectful relationship with yourself which divorces you from your inner thoughts and the quiet feelings that might guide you in your life. In other words, thinking about what already has been may prevent you from deciding what you want your life to be.
The key is to clear away the distractions to rational and emotional clarity. Getting stuck in your “sunk cost” prevents you from this clarity.

History has a nasty habit of repeating itself too; your DD is now seeing her abusive stepfather abuse you verbally and emotionally as her mother. Is that really what you want for her to keep on seeing?.

Re your comment:-
"I guess maybe I feel like maybe women never can truly speak up in relationships without being subject to anger on the receiving end"

You think this because that is all you've ever seen and known. It is not true for those men and women whose relationships are not abusive.

How do you rate your therapist, are you still seeing this person?

He's got no interest in bringing out the best in you because it's all about him and there's no way you can bring out the best in a man who, as Atilla rightly says, hates women.

Stop turning yourself inside out looking for faults in your personality and accept that you let another abuser into your life and that of your dd.

After about 6 months only he began to show unearned dominance around my house and my dd The fact that you didn't shut it down then is tragic, but what's done is done and it's now down to you to put things right for your dd.

Has he moved into your home and are you renting or buying? How long have you been married?

He doesn't want you to be passionate about anything, he shouts you down and calls you nasty if you disagree with hi, threatens to abandon you and your dd in unfamiliar surroundings, he is fighting with your 4 year old dd, he is gasliggting you into believing you are the problem.
He sounds very immature and to be honest he really doesn't sound like he's very bright.

If I was to be blunt I’d say you picked the wrong man again. It’s ok because as you said you can survive on your own with your little girl.

I would make sure I get the DD ready for school as he doesn’t sound like he cares tbh.

Lastly, sometimes big opinions can come across as aggressive and if all you talk about is rape cases or child abuse cases I would probably shut you down too as I don’t want to discuss those subject matters. I might make a sweeping comment and change subject.

All that said you still picked the wrong man and if I was your friend I’d tell you to get out. Neither of you need him.

This sounds like my marriage. Only I didn't see it in the early days. I wish I had and got out back then.
20+ Years down the line, with 4 DC, leaving is a lot more complicated.
I've had counselling, as I was convinced it was my fault. Turns out it wasn't.
It doesn't get better. I am a lot older, with no money and fewer options.
Don't be me.

I’ve thought for a long time “if I only had the right words/the right solution” but his sulking or anger can be like a wall impossible to get through.

Then it's not a question of you having the right words, is it? It's him deciding that nothing you say is right.

If being with him is making you feel shit 80% of the time, this isn't a sustainable relationship. Get out so that you feel the opposite of shit for 100% of the time, and be grateful you've escaped.