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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH has driven me to despair

188 replies

treacletree · 26/09/2019 11:07

Hi everyone.

Long time lurker here. This morning I feel very bleak about my fairly new marriage and I desperately need someone to talk sense to me. Sorry because this is just word vomit and very long. I hop me it makes sense.

I guess I feel a bit like I’m going mad and I have no idea whether the problems are rooted in emotional issues I admit I have, or a fundamental incompatibility, or his issues, or all of those.. I guess I want to know if I am as much of a piece of shit as he makes me feel about 80% of the time. If so, then I want to change, I’m happy to change. The other 20% of our time is wonderful- affectionate, loving, full of jokes, adventures. But I just feel exhausted by the cycles we are in.

This morning he is being short with me over text (always a sure sign) and sat on the bed staring into space for about 45 mins while I rushed about getting my dd breakfast and ready for school, and showering and washing my hair. When I was out if the shower he stood there “checking me out”/trying to grope my bum as I got dressed and I said joking “dh I’m jsut trying to get ready here” (I feel very self conscious at the moment due to weight gain and skin flare up and i just wanted to get my clothes and makeup on without feeling looked at. Yes, I know maybe that’s weird- but jsut because he is dh doesn’t mean he gets to just leer when I’m not feeling it? Am I wrong? Anyway he accused me of being “nasty” and went off to sit on the bed. I then did all of dd breakfast, getting dressed, teeth and got myself ready, ended up rushing to work and being 5 mins late. Which has happened a lot lately- as I am there he tends to do very little now.

Extra Background: He used to be in charge of mornings but I changed my work hours to be there too- because regularly he would text or call me when I was already at work, saying dd (4.5) was being difficult and he “couldn’t” get her to get ready. Tactfully as possible I suggested that it would be nicer if we all went off together in the morning. In reality I changed my work hours (sacrificing an early finish) because it was incredibly stressful trying to do work in the morning knowing how incapable he was of getting him and dd out the door without getting cross and worked up. It caused a lot of fights so I now ensure everyone gets out the door in a better mood. With dd like a lot of things this amounts to strategies, praise, being firm but fair (she hates mornings.) He tends to just get cross and resort to threats of taking toys away, etc.

Anyway, he is now being off with me like I said. I apologised a couple of times, explained how I was feeling about myself and said I had never meant to be nasty. He just brushes this off like HE isn’t acting weird. I don’t really know what I’ve done so wrong. The only thing he has said to me today is that I need to split a hotel night with him for when me and dd came to visit him on his last work trip. I paid just under £300 for me and dd flights over, and he expensed that entire week except for the one hotel night (£100). I guess I thought that because I got the flights he would get the hotel night. Anyway, we are married. He also earns a third more than I do. It seems a little petty I suppose, and is definitely in the context of today’s “row”.

Anyway maybe that gives you a flavour of the type of situation we find ourselves in time and again. Generally it’s a misunderstanding that escalated into a full on row. Last week, when we were out as a family he made a comment about “when we move to the suburbs”. I turned around and (again trying to be jokey) was like “what? Since when are we moving to the suburbs?” He apparently thought I was pissed of and immediately accused me of spoiling the day. I was cross he would do this in front of dd (though he has before a lot) but explained that as he knows I never wanted to move to the suburbs of our city and I had jsut been surprised by what he said. He essentially got very angry and said I was trying to start an argument, it ended with him threatening to storm off and leave me and dd in this unfamiliar place. (He has also done this before, most memorably while we were on holiday in a foreign city I didnt know, when he had the keys to the hotel room.)

I try and try to talk to him about why we argue, why it escalates. It happens so much and I’m not playing down my role, it’s just that if I express a wish that he doesn’t like, or if I call him out on something, he gets really angry. Either I’m “nasty” or I’m “trying to start an argument as usual” or similar, and he goes to stonewalling. It makes me really upset. For a long time I imagined it was me being too emotional and I have been having weekly CBT counselling for the past 3 months (fitted around my busy job) to try and target emotional baggage I have. He previously said he would get counselling so he is better at emotional discussions, but he never has pursued this. I also try and send him articles on relationship conflict resolution if we have had a bad one and suggested we try and approach conflict better, but it’s always me initiating this.

Another thing that makes me uncomfortable recently is that he has accused me of being way too negative because I get “too angry” about issues that I care about which mainly revolve around child poverty and feminism. I do a bit of volunteering in these areas, read widely around them and sometimes I do get very passionate in saying my views. If I do, he will either not engage and will change the subject completely, or he will say he doesn’t think I should get too worked up because there’s nothing you can do. When that happens I feel lonely and wonder if I am actually an incredibly difficult person. We have always been quite different- I’m quite passionate and opinionated and he doesn’t take views on a lot of controversial topics, as in his family they never really talk about stuff like that. I never minded that he was this way, I guess I jsut now feel like it’s being used as a way to make me feel bad. Like I’m an angry, negative person. The other day I was talking about a rape case in the news and he just ignored all I said and when I asked what he thought he said he jsut didn’t see why I was getting so “angry”. But I wasn’t angry with anyone. I was just being me. I don’t know how not to be me, I’m in my thirties and I’ve never been made to feel wrong like this before.

Sometimes I feel like there’s no benefit to him being around. On a great day: he’s had enough sleep, had a good week at work, is excited about something coming up, maybe we had sex or something, DD is well behaved, I’ve made a plan for the day he is interested in. And then things are jsut so good. He’s engaged in the family, he’s joking and happy and doesn’t take things to heart, he’s lovely with dd. Our honeymoon was like this.
But then the reality is if most of these are not the case, he’s moody, unpredictable and easily irritated. I feel like the middle man trying to stop him and dd clashing. I begin to feel despondent then at some point I voice this and he gets quickly angry because I was “trying to start an argument again”. Jsut 2 weeks after our honeymoon a big row happened in this way.
On our worst days he has had me sobbing in public places while he refuses to forgive me or calm down from whatever it is. That hasn’t happened for a while. But it has happened more than once.

I know I am not perfect. I’ve had a string of failed relationships including dd’s Dad. I always put this down to me being difficult but through therapy I am a bit kinder to myself and can recognise I picked the wrong men since being a teenager shuttling between 2 EA households after a bad divorce. 2 of my 4 sex partners before dh sexually assaulted me and I never realised it for years after. When I met dh I had a young dd, had been a single mum and felt worthless. After about 6 months only he began to show unearned dominance around my house and my dd and it is a big regret that I didn’t shut him down. They do have a good relationship but to be honest I know their bond isn’t as strong as he thinks it is. Her bio dad has recently got back in contact and I have a feeling she will become more distant from dh if that relationship develops.

I also have a fear of having a child with dh. It makes me feel abnormal. When he is on a good day and being supportive he says all the right things- we will do what you want whenever you want, I’m here for you. But it’s not that I don’t want another child or that I think I couldnt even manage as a single mum, I know I can. It’s that I don’t want HIS child. I don’t know why. Ona very good day I think I do. But usually I just don’t.

Again though, is this just down to my emotional damage? I’m beginning to think that maybe I am not cut out for adult romantic relationships and I feel a strange sense of peace at that. I’ve never made them work. I’m married and I can’t make it work. I know he is not all bad but he can be a lot bad. So can I, but I don’t know if that means im all wrong. Maybe I’m just wrong with him. Or anyone.

If you got to the end, Thankyou. I have never voiced some of this stuff even to myself.

If you can share any wisdom or thoughts I would appreciate it a lot because I don’t think I can go on like this

OP posts:
treacletree · 29/09/2019 11:12

I honestly don’t know what to do today.
I sense by him coming over to me every so often while I’m getting on with chores/watching tv with dd is him trying to get me to act “normal” but I feel the opposite of normal. The things he said about me and our marriage hurt me so much. It feels like I’m now meant to make this all ok.
He’s been on his computer playing his fucking games this morning mainly though.
If things were this serious why is he being like this? How should I be? I want to scream! I feel so hurt. I want an unreserved apology. Or for him to just fuck off. I can’t leave- it’s school tomorrow and all DD’s stuff is here obviously.

OP posts:
usernom123123 · 29/09/2019 11:13

Be brave and think of your daughter when you feel you're going to cave in & beg him to stay. This man is not good enough for you or your daughter.

Techway · 29/09/2019 11:22

I can't believe how similar this is to my situation. It must be a brain type as it cant just be similar traits.

Like you once I woke up to his moods I started (through counselling) to put in place boundaries and call him on his behaviour. This escalated his anger and whenever I was calm in response he would react exactly like your H did, take his ring off and go completely cold. It is very unnerving but I now realise that he knew I saw through him and he felt it was game over.

What is hard to understand is that this is ALL about his ego and he will protect his ego/false image of himself over everything. Nothing is more important and your marriage and life together doesn't matter. If you criticise him (no matter how gently) then it damages his ego and as a result he has to retaliate by blaming you, punishing you or ending the relationship. You and your daughter's lack of compliance or perceived slights is something he can't cope with and this trumps everything. The years of happiness or potential happiness go out the window. You have NOT failed because no one can keep a narcissist happy. It is impossible, the need to satisfy his ego and be compliant isn't achievable by anyone.

I can't relate to this thinking so it is extremely hard to explain but I have learned so much from counselling that I can fit it all together.

You will feel in shock and struggle to process what is going on. That is very common but there is support out there for you.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 29/09/2019 11:34

HE URNED IT ROUND ON YOU SO YOU WOULD BACK DOWN

Great game play on his part!

Get out, now. Tell him he ended your marriage, tell everyone the same!

GiveMeHope103 · 29/09/2019 11:39

Op he sounds emotionally abusive. Is this what you want to model to your daughter? think about that. shes 4.5years old. She is absorbing this dysfunctional relationship and it's becoming her normal. do you really think she doesnt sense what is going on? My ds aged 3 can repeat word for word what we speak about, knows if we are happy or sad and is absolutely aware of everything.
forget about your marriage, think about what this is doing to your daughter.

31RueCambon75001 · 29/09/2019 11:58

He's playing games on his computer because he wants to do what he wants to do more than he wants to build on any real connection or consider your feelings or show you respect.
He wants to live in a house where a wife does the wife work and doesn't challenge him. He wants to be FREE to play computer games and not to have to consider whether he's being respectful or fair. Cos he's not being respectful or fair. He's being entitled and disrespectful at best but, it's worse, because when you point it out to him, he turns it all around on you. He's training you to never challenge him, to never DARE to consider your own needs. You cannot even point out to him that you deserve a very basic minimum level of respect.

Let him get on with playing computer games. Whatever your dd needs can be replaced. I left when my kids were under four. They are NOT negatively impacted by their father's (continuing) fuckwittery because they ignore him. HIs weird letters. His self-pity. They are only able to ignore it because they already felt extremely disconnected from the peripheral figure he was in their lives when he pulled these toxic arrows out of his narcissistic quiver of behaviors.

Leave now so that your daughter isn't caught up in the fear and obligation and guilt. Leave early enough so that you can tell your daughter without him listening in the background that if something makes you feel bad, then that's reason enough not to do it.

YOu want to be free to tell her that a person can leave a relationship if it's not right and doesn't make them happy. Nobody OWES a relationship / servitude to a narcissistic master just because he is their child's father.

Starting again is a boatload of administrative and practical work but when you're not investing all of your energy into tiptoeing around an arsehole, you'll be amazed how do-able all of those practical tasks you thought were holding you back seem.

31RueCambon75001 · 29/09/2019 12:05

PS, and of course it's going to make you feel like you want to scream!

There's no way to get through this without ''sitting with'' this extremely unsettled feeling of anxiety!

At the moment, you're conditioned to look to him to dissolve that horribly unsettling feeling you have right now. He likes that. That leaves him feeling very powerful the narcissistic vacuum that he is. That he can have you, needing his blessing and approval to feel equilibrium! That leaves him feeling less of a vacuum for a short while.

So although your limbic system is directing you to appeal to him for his blessing, forgiveness and understanding, resist, resist, resist because even if he ''grants'' it, it will be temporary.

What is it about intermittent reinforcement, it is the most addictive! It's what makes gambling so addictive apparently.

He will never understand. He might pretend to for a while to reel you back in if he thinks he's gone too far controlling you. He will hoover you for a while.

Is your Mother with you? I really hope she wants more for you than this bullshit?

Be really honest with your mother about how bad it is. At first, I was so ashamed to tell my mother how bad he was. So she hovered on the fence not understanding why it was the mess it was.

I'm going to link to a few youtube clips now.

31RueCambon75001 · 29/09/2019 12:07

The abuser's techniques, a breakdown that spells out really clearly how the shift the blame

Techway · 29/09/2019 12:07

At least get out for a walk and try to burn off those stomach churning feelings. It can literally make you unwell.

This is his cycle and given he is probadly lacking empathy your feelings won't figure into his thinking. Also you place value on marriage, harmony and connection but that may not be important to him. It is so difficult to relate to his thinking because it is alien to you and because he probadly had a mask for a few years so you believed who he was.

The example of yesterday where he stonewalled was because you and your daughter DO need to walk on eggshells as his feelings are more important than everyone elses. You were controlling/abusive or just plain wrong to force him to go home. His thinking is so flawed that you can't relate to it but equally it is NOT changeable.

31RueCambon75001 · 29/09/2019 12:10

And this explains hoovering, what he will do when he realises he's lost control of this situation and that you're no longer terrified of this miserable relationship ending

There are two clips on this channel (which I find really good, she explains things very clearly) about hoovering

TheAlternativeTentacle · 29/09/2019 12:12

Stonewalling you because you wouldn't have sex with him, is abusive behaviour.

cccameron · 29/09/2019 12:28

Your posts are so awful I just want to sit and sob for you. Tell your mum everything and ask her to support you in leaving and don't look back. You say you are afraid of being alone but how is it even remotely possible for being alone to be worse than your current life. Your life sounds absolutely fucking intolerably awful. Miserable.

And your poor, poor daughter. She's 4 and having to deal with this shit Every Single Day. His behaviour sounds like it would be really scary for a child. Definitely confusing. She's learning about relationships from observing you both. Please don't let him fuck her up.

ScabbyBabby · 29/09/2019 12:31

Read the Lundy Bancroft book ‘why does he do that?’ and stop trying to understand him. He isn’t worth it.

If you can’t put yourself first then be a parent and put your child first for god’s sake!

I get it, you have learned to put up with this because of your past... you can’t change your past but you have control over your and your child’s future.

Do the right thing and get rid of him and move on.

Stellamboscha · 29/09/2019 12:42

My H is like this. I always hoped things would get better. I didn't divorce because I knew he would never see our two DSs and I thought better for them to have a live in dad even if he never wanted to do family things and pretty much spoiled outings by being like a sulky teenager who'd been forced to come. Now the DCare at university I'm finally divorcing him and regretting the wasted years when maybe I could have met someone. I never normally say this, but please LTB☹️

treacletree · 29/09/2019 13:42

Thank you everyone so much for your posts today.
I am now out with my mum have been brutally honest and she has advised me to message him calmly asking him to leave.

OP posts:
treacletree · 29/09/2019 14:34

He won’t leave. Immediately he went from remorseful to angry and accused me of punishing him for talking about his feelings so he would never do it again now. Again it’s my fault. I asked as neutrally as I could.
I feel just helpless. Now I am going to need to get our stuff and go while fielding his nasty remarks

OP posts:
treacletree · 29/09/2019 14:35

However, that is what I will do. Fuck this shit

OP posts:
Herocomplex · 29/09/2019 14:36

None of his feelings are genuine apart from the anger. He can’t hide it, can he?

Look after yourself x

RueCambon · 29/09/2019 14:42

Well done for being 100% honest to yr mum and realising that you have to leave. Do, leave. A man like this wont leave the house. Do what you need to do to disentangle yoursrlf from him.

RueCambon · 29/09/2019 14:47

Will he be nasty to you in front of yr mother?
If needs be, you could arrange for a rep from WA to be there when you get yr stuff.

Take what you would have to pay to replace but dont get too bogged down in material possessions. I walked away with nothing and there were very very few things that i missed.

MulticolourMophead · 29/09/2019 14:54

OP, I've been where you are now. I left my ex after 30 years, and I so, so wish it had been sooner for the sake of our DC.

They both have anxiety and depression at a time of life when they should be excited for the future and I beat myself up so much for not leaving sooner. They are getting better, but they shouldn't have had to suffer.

Please leave this arsehole, your DD doesn't deserve his treatment and neither do you.

Zofloramummy · 29/09/2019 14:54

He cannot accept one iota of blame. He has to make it your fault. He is expecting you to back down. If you do then he will wrestle another piece of control over you. You’ll have to work even harder to keep him happy. It’s a losing game.

You are doing the right thing, unfortunately I don’t think these type of men are capable of caring about others let alone actually love them for who they are. They care far too much about themselves, their needs and having those needs met by a subservient partner. You say you are a feminist? This man is the polar opposite of your political standpoint.

Leave him and good luck for you and your dd. You don’t need a man to be ok, it took me many years to figure out that. Get some support and enjoy being a mum in a safe happy home Flowers

Butterymuffin · 29/09/2019 14:59

This is the clue:

when he realised I was merrily getting on with things with dd at the museum, he started asking me “what’s wrong”.

He wants to be able to complain about things being wrong and it being your fault so you try to get him back on side. That's what works for him. Don't do any longer. He's a miserable messed up man and you will be so much happier on your own.

AnotherEmma · 29/09/2019 15:14

I'm glad you've told your mum and she's been supportive.

I am sorry but not sorry that it's got to this point (if that makes any sense) - it must be very painful but it is absolutely the right thing. If you end the relationship now, although it's painful in the moment, you will be so glad that you did.

I think what you probably need now is some specialist, practical advice about leaving - and staying safe while you do so - as well as legal advice about your rights and options when it comes to the family home and other issues. So I strongly advise you to contact Women's Aid and the Rights of Women family law helpline.

treacletree · 29/09/2019 17:24

He has gone. Dd is with my mum and I went home and after one last attempt to get him to talk calmly I just broke down and he agreed to leave.
He took the money for a hotel from our wedding present money which was in a joint house saving account. Felt like another jab at me.
I just sat in the shower for an hour breathing. Sounds stupidly dramatic but I felt totally overwhelmed.
Before he went he said all the right things suddenly- he felt so guilty, he was sorry, would give me the space I needed. I want to believe him so much but I feel that so much of it is performing an apology and I can’t forget the things he said to me last night and how he said them.
My house feels so much calmer right now.
Thankyou all.

OP posts:
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